Spencer Dock okayed

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    • #705330
      MG
      Participant

      The Minister for the Environment, Noel Dempsey had approved a development scheme for the Spencer Dock in North Dublin.

      The scheme had been submitted by the Dublin Docklands Development Authority.

      Modifications have been made to the plan, including increasing buildings on North Quay by one storey.

      The Spencer Dock has been a source of much controversy, with an earlier proposal failing to gain acceptance.

    • #719136
      JackHack
      Participant

      I reckon they should increase them my more than the one story.

      They impression when looking accross the liffey at the IFSC from the south side is quite deflated. The height of the present building could easily have been increased without any negative impact. I’d be more for various towers than of a general accross the board standard height.

    • #719137
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      This is looking more and more like a big mistake and a complete waste. The docklands in Dublin are being wasted as it is, with absolutely nothing of any note being built. There’s nothing that stands out, isn’t that part of what architecture is about – to create buildings that stand out, provide a focal point and generate discussion? Where is this in the docklands?

      It looks like they’re going to waste another large tract of land under 5 storey monotonous lego blocks. The IFSC extension is so unimaginative its depressing, you’d barely notice it from across the river. They had a bit on the news with Bertie the eejit saying the Citibank bungalow was too high as it was and he doesn’t want “skyscrapers” in Dublin. Its hard to put into words how much of an idiot I think that man is.

      It’d be great to see a few tall buildings beginning to show their heads over the mess that the Dublin “skyline” is at present especially in the docklands – wheres the harm in it? The same goes for other cities around the country, but whether it’ll be allowed to happen by the likes of Bertie the eejit is another matter because tall buildings are, as everyone knows, evil (or something).

    • #719138
      fjp
      Participant

      I completely agree Blain….

      I’m not sure exactly where they get this “fear” from, and would greatly appreciate if someone would like to explain the limitations imposed by current planning restrictions. It seems we’re doomed to having a squat village dwelling with a permanent shortage of space because people feels that building “up” will just cause massive social problems or something….

      I really don’t get it.

      fjp

    • #719139
      GregF
      Participant

      ..let’s hope they build Roche’s much needed National Conference Centre…..better than Scott Tallon & Walker manifestations that are there now.

    • #719140
      ro_G
      Participant

      Originally posted by fjp:
      I completely agree Blain….

      I’m not sure exactly where they get this “fear” from …….. It seems we’re doomed to having a squat village dwelling with a permanent shortage of space because people feels that building “up” will just cause massive social problems or something….

      I really don’t get it.
      fjp

      maybe it’s ballymun-iphobia.

      completely agree about the lack of imagination though, took a walk around the back of the IFSC the other day, felt suspiciously like an area of Romania I was in a few years back. the uniformity amazed me. effect is much worse from the river. and maybe it’s just me but does the width of the river promenade just make the buildings look shorter and stumpier.

    • #719141
      Rory W
      Participant

      Anybody know what the plans are like (or where you can see them?)

    • #719142
      ew
      Participant
    • #719143
      fjp
      Participant

      I looked at the plans.
      They excited me greatly.
      fjp

      (silently screaming “why?”)

    • #719144
      urbanisto
      Participant

      I had the pleasure of a brief spell of emploemwnt in the offices of Trasury Holding who will be developing the area. Right across from my desk was a visual imterpretation of the Spencer Docks development. And to be honest it sent me to sleep..its seems to be a monumental waste of opportunity. just row after row of boxes. BAron Hausmann’s they are not
      And its not just the outsides….I am sure the ‘luxury’ apartments contained will be built to a ‘high standards’ as well. Its very well to discuss moving people out of their semis with gardens fromt and back and into high-rise shared living but ultimately people will get fed up with cardboard walled rabbit hutches and move on. East Wall is the new area to focus our redevelopment sights on(it uses too much space for somewhere so close to the city). A little bit more thought about peoples needs just might make Spencer Dock and the North (and South) Quays the sucessful residential areas they aspire to be.

    • #719145
      GregF
      Participant

      Looking at the 2 images of the Spencer Dock site on the weblink provided above…..there is an image with Roche’s National Conference Centre in place and one with it missing, having a much more user friendly park provided instead in it’s place……. What would the be the more suitable option for the locality….
      I think the National Conference Centre is the more apt choice for the area and city.

    • #719146
      ew
      Participant

      The Indo says that as well as increasing the height “Minister Dempsey also extended the proposed Station Square southwards to North Wall Quay”.
      That would mean that if the developers went with the park option for the Spencer Dock site that it would connect directly with the extended Station Square. That would be a huge open (and wasted) space.
      Seems that the National Conference Centre option is the only workable plan.

      Has anyone seen any proposals for the tower down at waht will be Point Square? Sounds like it has potential – must be at least 60 m but not more than 100m.

      Any ideas?

    • #719147
      GregF
      Participant

      Na ……the park is a no no, a definite waste of space….the national Conference Centre fronting the river Liffey looks far more impressive …especially when Calatrava’s bridge is constructed close by here too ……I can see it all now ……and it looks impressive.

    • #719148
      Rory W
      Participant

      Isnt there enough pocket sized waste of space parks in Dublin!!! And surely the Linear park next to the canal will be enough for the area.

      The square would just be another windswept piazza, which is all a bit 60s for me. It would suit somewhere like Barcelona but given the Irish weather would be an utter waste of time. Even on a fine summer’s day it is blustery along the campshires!

    • #719149
      kefu
      Participant

      Where is there even one pocket-sized waste of space park in Dublin, Rory W. I can’t think of even one that’s not popular and in active use.

    • #719150
      Rory W
      Participant

      OK slight over reaction – thinking of suburban greens here – but a second park (after the linear park is built) would be a waste at this valuable site!

      In terms of pocket parks the one opposite the Olympia and the one on the corner of St Patricks street/ Christchurch place spring to mind. Behind Talbot Street there is two parks – both scary places and at least one has been closed due to drug addicts shooting up there (popular and in active use for certain groups only).

      Down in the IFSC the only time somewhere like this is used is when there is a bit of sun and the office workers sit out for lunch.

      [This message has been edited by Rory W (edited 12 June 2002).]

    • #719151
      urbanisto
      Participant

      I thought the guiding principal behind Spencer Dock was that it would be a ‘living quarter’ not just another collection of offices with little or no life outside of 9-5. Surely parks should rate as among the most important elements in acommunity..especially one that is going to live in apartment blocks with little or no recreation space.
      Parks are an essential element in any city … they help it to breath, and give it some space and help to make cities more than just a collection of buildings and car ladden roads.
      There’s enough room down there at Spencer Dock to accommodate both buidings and gardens

    • #719152
      Anonymous
      Participant

      great, so we get a row of citibank’s right down to the point, god forbid we should actually build anything higher than five stories in this city. I had a good look at the plans and i am not impressed, this is a vast area of the city, filling it in with a load of five story blocks will not entice anyone to the area… i don’t understand why some people (and i’m including the DDDA here) see high rise developments as if they are the work of the devil.

    • #719153
      JackHack
      Participant

      Tony Gregory, the local mans TD, generally labels High Rise with Developer Greed and often repeats that Mantra. I think someone will have to enlighten the people Gregory represents as to the benefits of building up. Their opinions are I believe a considerable part of the reason the height is being limited.
      That aswell as lame decision makers.

    • #719154
      -Donnacha-
      Participant

      I’d blame the decision makers far more than the likes of Gregory to be honest. They don’t have to listen to Gregory if they don’t want to. At the end of the day if they decided to allow taller buildings there what could Gregory do about it? The likes of the DDDA and An Bord Pleanala are ultra-conservative wimps who are scared to make controversial decisions in case someone would say boo to them and the country suffers as a result of their ineptness.

      Personally I kind of hope that whole area of the docklands isn’t developed, rather than wasted on the rubbish thats currently proposed. At least that way in the future someone with some vision might actually put something worthwhile there. The whole Spencer dock plan is a carbon copy of the crappy IFSC extension, and what they’re planning across the river is pretty much identical too. The lack of imagination is stunning really.

    • #719155
      GregF
      Participant

      On reflection…….. would Roche’s original plan for Spencer Dock have been better….It was lambasted by all for being too high, too bulky, too dense, too corporate America….. maybe it was, but maybe it would have been more varied than what is planned for there now. What was needed instead they said was a more European model and that’s what we are getting now I suppose…but of course an inferior version. At least with the original plan we would have had some sort of an interesting skyline and focal point for the city……rather than a slumberland of boring monotonous uniformed design.
      I had pictured then all this happening ….and we ending up with uninteresting plan for this part of the city……what a wasted opportunity.

      [This message has been edited by GregF (edited 13 June 2002).]

    • #719156
      Rory W
      Participant

      Grrr – All I am saying is that this is a daft place for a (second) park – go down and stand on the camshires for a while and you will see that it is. It is not going to be a nice sheltered Merrion square but a pointless blank space where the Conference Centre (which has full planning permission folks) should be.

      Whilst I agree that the entite docklands area area is now dribbling off to the sea the Roche scheme would still be wrong for the area, bulk and density all wrong

    • #719157
      kefu
      Participant

      Rory, I think everyone agrees that it would be a complete and utter waste of time to put a park there. The conference centre should be there and if they want to have another park, aside from the campshires, it should be set well back from the river and very sheltered as well.

    • #719158
      ew
      Participant

      The college building looks like it is still on schedule (to open this Sept) – Does anyone know who designed it and when it will be possible to look around inside?

    • #719159
      GregF
      Participant

      Gas the way Scott Tallon Walker has the monopoly down the docks with regards to designwork etc.. even Spencer Dock is to be given their special touch of boring uniform mediocrity.

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