Smithfield, Dublin
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@BTH wrote:
An awful lot will depend on the mix of retailers. If they get the balance right it has the potential to be a whole new shopping hub for the city, eventually connecting across to the new Markets area. If they can’t attract at least one or two destination retailers (im thinking Borders Books, Virgin Megastore, NikeTown, etc) then i’d see them having huge difficulty in making it a viable and vibrant place to travel to to from the city core to shop.
From an interview I did with Simon Kelly (one of the developers of Smithfield Market):
“We see Fresh as the catalyst for the whole Smithfield estate, where you go because there’s good stores on offer and it’s different to other areas. There’ll be a Thomas Reads pub, a Starbucks, a few health shops and an O’Brien’s sandwich bar there too. We want to bring something a bit different,†he said.“That’s why we control all of the retail we developed in Smithfield.
“Over the investment cycle it will pay you, if you take in some of the people who aren’t as strong but who bring customers. If you just go for the highest rent and the most boring brands, there will be nothing in the end.â€
@jdivision wrote:
it’s different to other areas. There’ll be a Thomas Reads pub, a Starbucks, a few health shops and an O’Brien’s sandwich bar there too. We want to bring something a bit different,
That all sounds pretty generic to me…
And as for Fresh… I went in there the other night to get some parsley. It took three (very helpful) shop assistants to establish between them what parsely was. And no, they didn’t have any.
There are already two excellent destination retailers just off the square – Little Italy (http://www.littleitalyltd.com/) and Kish Fish (http://www.kishfish.ie) – but neither have been incorporated into the new retail plans. Fresh’s fish comes from Wrights of Howth (and seems to just lie there rotting all day from what I can see). And while there is some crossover between Little Italy’s range and Fresh’s, the difference in price is striking. A tin of premium Cirio tomatoes costing 99c in the former, retails for e1.79 in the latter.
The Smithfield development has all the character and genuineness of an airport. It’s all about fleecing yuppies who don’t know better, while quietly sidelining the actual culture of the area.
I wouldn’t be too cynical about this development. While I would be critical of some aspects of it – namely the sheer scale of it and the scorched earth policy in regard to any remaining historic buildings on site (by contrast the development on the opposite side of the square retained and incorporated a plethora of historic buildings and other structures) – I would give it a chance. If Fresh’s fish is not selling yet it’s probably because people don’t know about it yet – It only opened the other week after all. Smithfield has been ‘about to happen’ for so long now that I am dying to see if it actually will happen, if this new development will provide the critical mass to create a vibrant area.
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Good picture of the fire in No. 80 King Street in that linked thread, Paul. I suppose there’s not much left inside it now!
The ‘accidental’ fire in a historic building – such a tiresome stunt. Another happened recently on the top two floors of an Aungier Street house, the one that used to be the hat shop, Coyle’s.This picture is from 2000, at the time the two small ones were being demolished behind the facades:
.this might not be popular but personally i would knock down all the above buildings and build them in line with the new buildings
@Maskhadov wrote:
this might not be popular but personally i would knock down all the above buildings and build them in line with the new buildings
It is a shame that they have fallen into such disrepair and I really do not know what will become of them. If they are restored it would merely be an act of facadism as that seems to be all that is left of them.
Having said that, No.81 North King Street (The building to the left of the above photo) has been undergoing a very successful restoration these last few years and James Kelly is to be commended as it will probably be all that will stay of the old Smithfield. I somehow get the feeling that the scale of this building is more appropriate for the space as a whole, but too late now.
Does anybody know if this building was part of a terrace as it seems to have a fairly established gable?
I don’t know if there were any consistent terraces around there; it seems to mostly just a higgledy-piggledy variety of heights, widths and shapes – a bit like the Quays (were).
There’s an old stone underpass archway between No. 80 and No. 81, which you can see in the 1950s picture below. It’s obscured now by a big used car sales fascia. You can still see the uprights of the arch (see below) – it’s in the ‘Gibbsian’ style. If the buildings are to kept, this sign should be redesigned to show the arch.
.Perhaps if the area is incapable of supporting either Fresh Fish or Italianate Pasta outlets some consideration could be given to a leaseback arrangement with Charlie Duffy who operated a very popular and efficient Breakers Yard in Smithfield up until the day of reckoning.
They shifted poor oul Charlie out to a souless industrial unit on the Long Miler where he still manages to turn a cent keeping Irelands wheels turning.
Surely Car Breakers yards have aesthetic reghts too…and another thing !…with Dublin City Councils predisposition for allocating Car space in EVERY commercial or resedential development it approves perhaps a Breakers Yard IS actually more in keeping with the intrinsic cultural ethos of Smithfield,or indeed any other DCC area…..;)Yes Alek I agree the area is being sterilised. The planners would tell you that those kind of concerns (like Duffy’s) are “not a long-term sustainable use for the area” but they were definitely part of the character of that part of town.
Then there’s the horse fair …..hang on a second ! of course the place has very little atmosphere , it’s only just finished and almost no shops have move in yet !
Consider that it took 6 months between starbucks reported as “opening soon” in the times and them actually doing so at the harcourt tram station. Things can take time. I think it is far too early to dismiss the area as a failure.
On an aesthetic level , the square is large enough to accomodate all the different sides to the square. I feel that the old distellery is very poor and ,aside from the facade, has worn badly. The new buildings have the right bulk in my opinion, and fit in well the viking ship pylons.
If temple bar was too successfull and the ifsc not sufficiently , this looks to get it just right to my mind.
I like the Fusano properties development. I remember all the hoo-haa about the proposal when it was first mooted and the objections to the tower. Looking at the finished product, I think it looks quite well overall . The Corpo housing scheme at the corner is bloody awful however. The remnnants of buildings, ie the Cobblestone pub and the 3 other sites should be demolished (bar the tall Georgian house) at the end of the square and a contemporary eye catching focal point building should be added I think. It would frame the square. Pity Bo- Derrels pub was demolished that was around here too but the replacement is’nt bad. Overall Smithfield looks good and is getting better. Well done to the HARP for rejuvenating this whole area of the city , ie North King Street etc…It was once a national disgrace.
I took a walk around Smithfield yesterday and thought the new development was great.
The area is a sucess.. it will just take time for people and shops to move in. The old buildings look terrible though.
Just to add, I think a bronze sculpture of horses somewhere in the square would be an attractive feature, in honour of the horse fair.
Shouldn’t that be pi-balled ponies to give an authentic feel as opposed to a homogenised rose tinted view of the past; Perry Ogden has an excellent collection of pictures taken in the late 1990’s of some of the characters of the market
aye …a couple of old nags grouped together would suffice as an attraction. It could be a funny piece of sculpture. It doesn’t have to be idealistic or too serious. Something to be propped up on when having a photo taken.
@GregF wrote:
I like the Fusano properties development. I remember all the hoo-haa about the proposal when it was first mooted and the objections to the tower.
Wern’t they going for 23 storeys at first? As far as l remember it was taken down in height not because a high building was deemed innapropriate for the area but because the chimney was already the established landmark of Smithfield and it would have been taller than that.
@Devin wrote:
Wern’t they going for 23 storeys at first? As far as l remember it was taken down in height not because a high building was deemed innapropriate for the area but because the chimney was already the established landmark of Smithfield and it would have been taller than that.
Not sure whether it was 23 storeys or not but yeah, it was turned down because it would have detracted from the tower. There’s a story that’s related to the tower and other side of the square in The Sunday Business Post on Sunday
@jdivision wrote:
Re: The side of Smithfield opposite Smithfield Markets, there is planning application in (not sure if it’s been approved or not) to significantly increase the scale on that side of the street – particularly at Chief O’Neills which frankly is a hole.
That planning app was approved by DCC but has just been refused by ABP: http://www.pleanala.ie/data1/searchdetails.asp?id=3270769&caseno=215643
The plan was to increase the height of the drum-shaped function room of the hotel from 2 storeys to 9 storeys, which would have looked something like this (below). Problem was, there were apartments just a few feet away across the laneway and the residents unsurprisingly went beserk at how much light etc. would be blocked, and put several appeals in.
I think an increase in height of the main part of the hotel was also sought (perhaps different Ref. No.)
.Is it known what if any prosecutions occured in this case?
On a separate if oddly non-connected note, does anyone know when the tall flame torchs in S. were last lit? :confused:
Revamped Smithfield ‘becoming ghost town’ after businesses shut
Colin O’Riordan/ Evening HeraldSmithfield is in danger of becoming a “ghost town” due to the number of businesses closing down, a councillor has warned.
Last year, the much acclaimed Lighthouse Cinema opened its doors in the area. A science museum and a bookies also opened up, while the Motor Tax office relocated there.
Thomas Read closed its doors in the area as its parent group, which owns a chain of pubs and restaurants throughout the city, struggles to survive.
A new Spar supermarket recently shut down, just four weeks after it opened. Another convenience store has also shut its doors. However, the Fresh supermarket still appears to be thriving in the area.
Last week, a case came to the Commercial Court concerning a legal action for re-possession of a €10m property in the area, following allegations of non-payment of rent.
The sub-tenants of the company being sued — Redquartz Smithfield Ltd — are the Lighthouse Cinema and Fresh supermarket,
Cllr Burke said the Smithfield Horse Market was hurting the area, but there was little that Dublin City Council could do about it, thanks to ancient city laws.
Councillors, the DSPCA and a number of parties have hit out at the market.
“Dublin City Council’s hands are tied in relation to this, due to an ancient law,” Cllr Burke said.“We need the support of the Government — a change of legislation is required.”
what science museum,have the horse sellers been offered other areas?
even with more apartments and shopfronts to the square its still a ghosttown?
Most of the retail units were never occupied in the first place so the shopfronts to the square have been empty for years now, except a few which are struggling to survive.
There is a whole DCC Markets Area Development Plan, I dont think the area will reach it’s potential until this plan takes affect. But this doesn’t mean the retail shouldn’t have been built, course it should.
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