Smithfield – decision

Green Party says 3 storeys only for Cork City. AAArrrrrrrrrrrr! They’ve got to be joking!!!!?? Have they no sustainability agenda? Do they not aknowledge like most other environmental groups, that variety in the urbanscape enriches the built environment for EVERYONE?

Do An Taisce have a website? I feel inspired to send them a note complaining/ questioning their disapointingly, over-conservitive views that are not doing the nation at large any favours.

DARA

coord@antaisce.org will get you their national co-ordinator

Just a few comments:

1. Paul I’m surprisd at you, you should, be wel aware that high rise development does not equal high density development.

2. Greg, I am, unfortunately not in th least bit surprised by you. Please apply to either Bolton Street or UCD for admission to the architectural courses as it is clear that you need a great deal of education in this regard. Also, easy on the blood pressure, you’re going to hav a stroke!!.

3. An Taisce happens to be the best line of defense against bad development in this country. If you want to change or influence their atitude or direction in these matters join your local association, get involved and volunteer your services in the same way as their members have.

4. The ‘Locals’ at Mackin Street actually support the Calatrava Bridge. They are opposed to its use for private vehicles as opposed to public service vehicles.

5. How many of you have actually read the Bord’s Decision on Smithfield??. It’s actually quite a good and well considered one as these things go.

6. Paul I notice from another Forum that you were complaining abouts ‘Locals’ objections to concerts – You live in the area – you are a local yourself. If you have an opinion locally make yourself known and do something about it.

Regards

James

i would also like to say how great it was that the spar in smithfield that normally closes at 8 stayed open until after 11 on the concert nights… well needed… of course the locals probably didnt like that either…

….and to add it is a ‘city’ which supposedly is full of noise, hustle and bustle, not the gloomy silence of Connemara.

Judging by your own statements in the past I least expected this kind of thing from yourself. I am pretty well involved in local groups and
organisations in the area and don’t grudge the time spent. I have never heard anything in the nature of the complaints that you have
mentioned.

have you seen the ‘macro’ newsletter of march 2001? Basically I’ve had it with the ‘natives’ around here who figure they have more rights than the ‘blow-ins’ living in the apartments and developments around here. As far as I can see the inhabitants of around 40 houses are getting way more airspace and newspaper columnage than they should. Exaggerating everything from toiletes 10 feet from their doors to paedophiles to businesses losing out.

This isnt just aimed at the people of Smithfield, its ‘locals’ everywhere holding the city to ransom while the money to do something with the city drips away piecemeal.

[This message has been edited by Paul Clerkin (edited 08 May 2001).]

It appears quite difficult to fight such cases now especially when the ‘locals’ play the auld trump card of ‘us, we poor natives born and ‘reard’ in Dublin and we’re not gonna have outsiders tell us what to do’…Blah! Blah! (hence the racist attacks on foreign nationals too)and especially when you have the likes of (as I have said before) shitty local TD’s who are maybe of a rural stock too spurring such people on for the sake of a few votes. The ‘locals’ what an enigma….all recent developments of a considerable height have been turned down due too ludicrous complaints such as shadowing…this is a bloody city do they not realize that and now Caltrava’s bridge down the docks is threatened due to ‘car pollution which may cause asthma’ in the locals….Jesus…..any excuse. Such major schemes which would benefit the whole of the city are been jeopardized by handfuls of people. I am a true blue Dub and I would love to see the city develop into something of international renown not a mediocre post colonial third rate British town…which at the moment is taking on all the trappings of such. Shame on you.
Too add I work with many foreign people of all walks and all complain that Dublin city ‘lacks infrastructure’, ‘aesthetic beauty’, ‘landmarks and features’, ‘is far too expensive’…….and the only form of entertainment to do on a rainy day is ‘go to the pub’ …which not many of them do as they are not alcoholics like a considerable ammount of us Irish.
(Pity the Romans never landed in Ireland…we may have had a good grounding in civics and architecture)….True!

[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 09 May 2001).]

To James,in relation to your first post.

1. High rise can facilitate higher densities. Why do C.B.D.s usually attract higher buildings? Demand is higher, values and costs increase, skyscrapers accommodate more users in same space, cost effectiveness and economies of scale.

2. You suggest to Greg that he should apply to UCD or Bolton Street so he can be educated in architecture. Presumably, (and I do recognise your sarcasm)those without architectural qualifications should refrain in commenting about such matters. Perhaps, according to this logic the ‘locals’ should automatically do the same.

3 Although An Taisce has a very important role to play in conservation and architectural heritage, it also appears to be the best line of defence against ‘good’ development in this country.

On a more general note it simply isn’t good enough to tritely equate high rise with high density or good architecture. Most of the pertinent factors such as impact upon daylight, overshadowing, negative environmental impact formation of wind vortices, non sustainability, scale, context, etc hav’nt even been addressed on this site.

With regard to the Oral Hearing for example, the ‘locals’ submission took nearly two days and was supported by several hundred pages of technical evidence. I am pretty certain that nobody comenting here could even be bothered to attend the hearing much less comment upon the calibre and substance of that evidence.

Even the Bord’s actual decision seems unfamiliar territory – only the 23 storey tower is referred to – does anybody on this site have any comment about the other conditions and exclusions?.

Strangely it may be that all of this nonsense is specific to this web site – I notice a second site quite rationally debating the merits of high rise in a fairly intelligent sense.

James, all i was doing was engaging you on some of your arguments, by offering an opinion. As for your comment about the futility of using a site such as this for debate, it is only a forum for discussion in which views are exchanged and people learn etc.In relation to the ‘locals’ debate. Often, established residents assume their opinions ooutweigh blow-ins and outsiders, while, in fact, every resident in a particular area is a citizen with equal rights. A person living in Smithfield for 2 years, for example, has the very same rights as someone resident there for ten. In addition, I saw a newspaper article about a man in Cork County complaining about the fact that he was refused planning for a house extension, and was baffled because neighbours on both sides had received permission in recent years. The reason he was so vexed was because one was Chinese, the other Italian. The Examiner obviously sympathised by giving him this platform. Now, James can u see anything worrying about that at all? On a general level, residents often tend to, conveniently fall into a role of victimhood and siege. Cites are not fixed ‘things’, they are a process of continual change, urbanity is about community, not selfishness and narrow concerns.