Skyscraper plan ‘more Shanghai than Dublin’

Home Forums Ireland Skyscraper plan ‘more Shanghai than Dublin’

Viewing 22 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #710282
      Rory W
      Participant

      From the Heggald!

      Skyscraper plan ‘more Shanghai than Dublin’

      Monday November 24 2008

      AMBITIOUS plans to transform the Naas Road’s industrial zone into an upmarket avenue have suffered a setback.

      In a split decision, Dublin City Council has refused permission for a vital element of the proposal — a 26-storey skyscraper.

      The Fitzwilliam Partnership had applied to the council for permission to build the development at the Royal Liver Retail Park on the Naas Road.

      While the higher elements of the project were turned down, the local authority gave the go ahead to much of the scheme.

      Permission was granted for retail, residential and commercial units in a plan which could see part of the clogged-up dual carriageway renamed Naas Boulevard.

      The council said it rejected the skyscraper plans “having regard to the lack of a sufficient policy framework for a building of 26 storeys in this location”.

      Planners said it “would be contrary to the provisions of the current Dublin City Development Plan and to the proper planning and sustainable development of the area”.

      Referring to the refusal of permission for ‘Block D’, the local authority said the plans would have resulted “in a poor standard of residential amenity” to units in the building due to its “proximity to the heavily trafficked Naas Road”.

      Four blocks, B, C, E and F, got the go ahead in their entirety.

      The original proposal, including the 26-storey tower, led to a flood of complaints from residents and councillors.

      Local representatives branded the high density scheme as being more appropriate to Shanghai than suburban Dublin.

      “I think it’s very premature in the sense that the city council is only beginning to set down criteria about high rise. Any high rise at all should have to await the outcome of these deliberations,” Cllr Michael Conaghan (Lab) said in February.

      “I think this is an attempt to pre-empt that process.”

      Fine Gael’s Ruairi McGinley said the proposal was “more like Shanghai than Dublin”.

      scale

      Cllr McGinley said, while the plans are visually very striking, concern had been expressed at the scale of what was proposed.

      “The scale of it is what you might term a landmark-type application,” Cllr McGinley said.

      The arrival of the Luas has allowed developers to look again at areas of Dublin, which previously wouldn’t have been viewed suitable for these types of schemes.

    • #805076
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Cllr McGinley said, while the plans are visually very striking, concern had been expressed at the scale of what was proposed.

      Ah, so there is something of city-scale in the proposal so it shocked those who were hoping for the sprawling dysfunctional ugly incoherent town sort of plan.

      The arrival of the Luas has allowed developers to look again at areas of Dublin, which previously wouldn’t have been viewed suitable for these types of schemes.

      And any reasonable city would take advantage of that fact. This is how a city should grow, along transport corridors with high density, now how dublin has been growing. The lack of “provision” in some bs plan is lame excuse to turn down an opportunity to employ people and enhace the functionality and visuality of the city. Naas road, wtf is built there that is of a sensitive nature to warrent this rejection?

      And these people really need to google shanghai ffs. The standard of metaphors these backward people produce is fairly low….”giant bent errection”…. nice.

    • #805077
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Does anyone know if The Fitzwilliam Partnership are going to appeal the decision?

    • #805078
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      “more like Shanghai than Dublin”

      I have not seen the plans, but I reckon this, as with most ‘mini manhattan statements, is a gross, emotive exaggeration.

      A high density scheme along the Naas Road, I would wager, would in fact be nothing like Shanghai. Absolutely nothing. The term Shanghai evokes images of a steamy, vast, high rise riddled metropolis. A 26 storey building – and other clusters – in the suburbs of Dublin cannot be compared to this.

    • #805079
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      SDCC put out a tender for an urban design strategy in late 2007 for their land from Bluebell out of town and as far as I remember it was implicit in the brief they would be moving/prompting height on this corridor.

    • #805080
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      26 storeys is a “tall building”, not a skyscraper. Unless the sky is falling whereupon we shall have to look out for foxy loxy.

    • #805081
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @tommyt wrote:

      SDCC put out a tender for an urban design strategy in late 2007 for their land from Bluebell out of town and as far as I remember it was implicit in the brief they would be moving/prompting height on this corridor.

      It was the Naas Road Gateway Urban Design Masterplan- one reference here: http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=939&pid=13501

      I’m not sure if it has stalled, or what’s going on with it. I think some of it is dependent on the completion of the M50 upgrade and the redesign of Newland’s Cross (grade separating the town-bound traffic with a flyover, Metro West [chance’d be a fine thing…] going under the flyover), but I heard the other day that the NX project has been shelved due to cost cutting.

      @ihateawake wrote:

      And any reasonable city would take advantage of that fact. This is how a city should grow, along transport corridors with high density, now how dublin has been growing. The lack of “provision” in some bs plan is lame excuse to turn down an opportunity to employ people and enhace the functionality and visuality of the city.

      Whilst I agree broadly with this sentiment, there’s a danger with such an approach if it’s not co-ordinated at the right level. If the mix of jobs and housing is right, and the density is correct, then great. Sadly, too often in the past the presence of a Luas line has been seen as a blank cheque for developers. Sandyford would be a case in point- each of those developments argued for density based on proximity to the Green Line, and now the Green Line is having difficulties due to the cumulative impact of all the new people out there. Sadly, the Fassaroe extension will probably make this even worse.

    • #805082
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @ctesiphon wrote:

      but I heard the other day that the NX project has been shelved due to cost cutting.

      If NX refers to the Newlands Cross Flyover – work has commenced on it and the contractor is on site

    • #805083
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Rory W wrote:

      If NX refers to the Newlands Cross Flyover – work has commenced on it and the contractor is on site

      really? Didn’t know it had received the go-ahead and i thought it was one of the victims of the budget…

      not clear from this:
      http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2008/1022/1224454451054.html
      @Irish TImes Oct 08 wrote:

      Budget cuts: An NRA meeting will decide how soon work can begin on the junction, writes Tim O’Brien

      THE POSSIBILITY of moving the proposed upgrade of Dublin’s Newlands Cross junction up the list of National Roads Authority (NRA) priorities is to be discussed by the board of the authority next month.

      The move to remove the junction from a list of six key road schemes Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey said would have to be deferred due to Budget cuts comes amid concern that work on the nearby Red Cow interchange is running at least six months late.

      The Red Cow interchange links the M50 – the State’s busiest road, with about 100,000 vehicles a day – with the N7, the State’s second busiest road. The sprawling Red Cow interchange is being upgraded to freeflow status, but the two-year contract, which began in mid-2006, has already missed its deadline.

      Senior NRA figures are concerned the proximity of the Red Cow interchange to the Newlands Cross junction means work on one will most likely affect the other. They are keen to revisit the list of priorities to ascertain if construction at Newlands Cross could begin next year as originally planned.

      A senior NRA source told The Irish Times a board meeting to review the roads programme would be held in mid-November and the authority would be keen to maintain the pace on the improvements to the congested road network spanning from the M50 so as not to hamper the benefits of completing the inter-urban motorways by 2010.

      Phase one of the upgrade of the M50 was originally scheduled for 2007 under Transport 21. While then minister for transport Martin Cullen turned the first sod on the works in January 2006, work did not begin until July that year. Mr Cullen told the Dáil on at least two occasions the work would be completed by “mid-2008”.

      This week the NRA website gave the completion date as the third quarter of 2008 but NRA communications manager Sean O’Neill confirmed the contract was running six months over. The best possible date would be “the end of December” he said. The project website, http://www.m50.ie, maintained by South Dublin County Council, now gives “the end of the year” as the completion date.

      While the Red Cow interchange is behind schedule, delaying the completion of phase one of the M50 upgrade, work on phase three between the West-Link bridge and the N3 is complete.

      The authority is coming under political pressure to have the Ballymun interchange for Ikea – part of phase 2 – open by 2009, almost a year ahead of schedule.

      However it is understood that if the authority insists on an early completion extra payments may be incurred. Negotiations are said to be delicate.

    • #805084
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Rory-

      See the last slide from this recent (last Tuesday?) NRA presentation by Fred Barry to the Dublin Chamber of Commerce: http://www.dubchamber.ie/Uploads/NRA.pdf

      Outllook – 2009
      €1.4bn capital budget, plus PPP investment
      Priority is completing major inter-urbans
      No major projects starting, e.g. Newlands Cross postponed
      2010????

      http://www.dubchamber.ie/current_issue.asp?article=893

    • #805085
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      The news section of RTE’s website is today carrying a story about a 632m (not feet) tower going to be built in Shanghai -yes it is going ahead! that building is 128 floors -need we say more about comparing Dublin to Shanghai:rolleyes:

    • #805086
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      we must not build high rises without a cohesive strategy > attempt made at strategy > is rejected because it mentions areas suitable for high rise > we must not build high rises without a cohesive strategy >

    • #805087
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Dublin´s strategy for highrise was only recently thrown together, and all a little too late.

      The Docklands is now sparsely jammed with suburban business parks, 5-storey gated blocks, and small town houses, when it should have been designated as a high density haven for developers.

      My definition of high density is 8+ storey blocks, minimum. We needs lots of affordable housing and reasonably priced rents at street level. As it stands, the entire Docks are windswept and void of life. Families are a vast minority, and over-priced convenience stores and restaurants dominate the entire area. To me, the entire Docks is a massive failure.

      In relation to density, look at Tallaght and Sandyford, very high density there, then look at the Docklands, very low density in comparison.

      It´s no wonder that developers are trying to plonk towers and high density blocks randomly around the city – there is no space left in the Docks, and very little space in the areas designated as highrise within the canals. We don´t seem to be learning from London´s mistakes.

      The boat has sailed, folks, and if you don´t believe me, take a walk through the Docks five years from now, I guarantee you it will be as dead as it is today.

      Let´s hope that they do it right next time, once Dublin Port has been shifted north. Not for a very, very long time. 😉

    • #805088
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @Morlan wrote:

      My definition of high density is 8+ storey blocks, minimum. We needs lots of affordable housing and reasonably priced rents at street level. As it stands, the entire Docks are windswept and void of life. Families are a vast minority, and over-priced convenience stores and restaurants dominate the entire area. To me, the entire Docks is a massive failure.

      In relation to density, look at Tallaght and Sandyford, very high density there, then look at the Docklands, very low density in comparison.

      You can actually achieve very high densities with 5-7 storey development. Its all well and good for people to say lets build higher in the docklands but then try and get families to live there. And before anyone questions this they should ask themselves honestly if they would choose to raise a family in an inner city situation.

      The issue is not height nor density – its the quality of life and services that can convince people and in particular families that inner city urban living can give them the same or an enhanced quality of life as suburban life.

      Tallaght and Sandyford have been built to a good density but most of the apartments there lie empty and there are very few families who would choose to live in those blocks.

    • #805089
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @reddy wrote:

      You can actually achieve very high densities with 5-7 storey development. Its all well and good for people to say lets build higher in the docklands but then try and get families to live there. And before anyone questions this they should ask themselves honestly if they would choose to raise a family in an inner city situation.

      you say families wouldn’t live in higher buildings, but then you ask would families want to live there at all, no matter how height, so why just concentrate on young and single and go higher.

    • #805090
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Re: Newlands cross. Well I only know that there’s hordings all along the golf club and some clearance work has been done – so if the NRA are going to leave things static for a year that’s their perogative.

      Re: Families in apartments – as soon as affordable apartments the same size as a 3/4 bed semi, with proper storage space becomes available then families may well move in. If developers continue building single aspect 2 bed apartments at c550 sq foot (or decent size apartments for megabucks), and the government not properly incentivising owner occupier blocks – then families wont move in.

    • #805091
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Heres the architects website of the plan. http://www.oms.ie (nass road) Looks like a great plan but will never get built in dublin!!!!!:mad:

    • #805092
      admin
      Keymaster

      @RoryW wrote:

      Re: Newlands cross. Well I only know that there’s hordings all along the golf club and some clearance work has been done – so if the NRA are going to leave things static for a year that’s their perogative.

      The Dublin/Cork Gas pipeline is being shifted in preparation for the junction upgrade (behind the hoarding) it looks like government has pulled funding, the nra were ready to go.

    • #805093
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Having spoken to a few people, the utilities shifting around newlands cross will carry on but no works will be carried out on the main project in 2009

    • #805094
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Nice, borrow to pay for “surplus staff” and other ridiculous current expenditure and cut back on infrastructure spending. Seems like the wrong way around. Raise VAT for the laugh too. Why do these people always get elected.

    • #805095
      admin
      Keymaster

      well they are borrowing 8.2bn this year for capital expenditure, and whether government wants to or not, they will have to continue to borrow at least 8bn per annum to invest in infrastructure as it is one of few remaining crutches propping up the economy, they just can’t turn off the tap, a gradual decline in that level of investment is the only way government can proceed.

      All of which actually makes it more likely that other major projects like metro north & (please god) the interconnector will go ahead once the motorway network is completed in 2010 and a significant chunk of that 8bn is released.

      thanks for the info Rory, thought as much.

    • #805096
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Umm, well thats what im talking about… I agree, im all for capital spending/borrowing, hence my dismay at the cancellation of newlandsX. Im saying they shouldnt keep borrowing loads to pay for dead weight which can be found all over the public service. Borrowing for current needs – bad, capital – shiny and good.

      Then they go and buck the european trend and raise VAT to kick the consumer in the stomach.

    • #805097
      admin
      Keymaster

      @ihateawake wrote:

      Borrowing for current needs – bad, capital – shiny and good.

      no dispute there 😉

      i presume it will proceed in 2010.

Viewing 22 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Latest News