Roches Stores, Henry Street, Dublin

new look Roches Stores from the photos looks awful, very cheap and nasty…

However it looks brighter and better than what was there ……..is that cladding or glass I wonder

Nah its like the old one only bigger – boo to this it already looks dated

The New Roches looks remarkably like the Millennium Wing of the art gallery. 🙂

James

I see they’re not even attempting to solve the worst aspect of the current Roches, the fact that it has a 3 storey, 6 building long blank wall as a facade. They’re pawning off the Millinium Wing’s sophisticated austerity as a solution to their problem.

Its not a solution.

It looks like a B&Q Warehouse with bits bolted to the side, it’s too suburban and dated for this site I agree with Graham about the main problem of a blank facade not being addressed here – obviously they dont like windows

No modern shops like windows, look at the upper storeys of Arnotts and see your windows….. Clerys have recently addressed their windows on first floor level and opened upo a few of them to the shop floor.

I think this is great – and I know right well that Roches will not get any thanks for it. They didnt have to remodel the exterior of the store – they could simply have plonked another floor on top and reordered the interior, but no, they’ve decided to spend money.

This is not Galleries Lafayette hiring Jean Nouvel, this is a mass market cheap chain store and I think they should be commended for the effort. After all they didnt have to….

So what if architecturally its not going to win a RIAI award, its a step in the right direction – Dublin is not going to turn into Barcelona or Paris overnight….

Probably underneath that fancy facade there is a concrete base wall of a substantial thickness. It would be an ordeal maybe to start slicing windows in it……and would eat into their alloted makeover budget. Probably the architects had to work with what resources there were too.
Hence a wallpaper solution has been applied.
Anyone know the name of the architects.

More like they can’t be arsed to remodel the interior of the building to take account of this. How wonderful it would be to have sweeping views of Henry St through new windows, that filled the upper shopping floors with light and interest.

Arnotts also hasn’t bothered to utilise their upper windows.

Most retail stores dont…. large window areas mean less retail space. They also have to be cleaned more regularly than normal buildings (for appearences sake). And I agree it is Roches after all and at least they are making and effort to improve on that ghastly 70s creation they are replacing.

By replacing it with a ghastly 00’s update?

Mind you the fact that Roches pulled down Frascati House shows they don’t give a toss about architecture. I suppose they dont want to fade their tatty clothes with views of the southside. Even Schuh on O’Connell Street looks better with it’s high level display windows rather than bald facade.

On a luck note the original plan for the bhs/penny’s building on O’Connell Street had no windows either

Definatly,the new Roches is going to look just as bad as the old one, if not actually worse, because our aspirations should have risen a lot since then.

Also while Roches may not be the most progressive clients in the world they didnt actually design the thing themselves and they were obviously up for something modern, which is a suprise considering the state of what happened the last time they trusted modernism. It is so easy for a client to use this as an excuse for a bit of fiddleditwee So a fair bit of responsibility has to be given to the architects for this new ‘reworking’ budgeting et al considered.

on a more pressing matter, whats the news on Zara moving in to this Roches soon? Has it all been a cruel rumour? I’ve been waiting for ages for them to come & now theyre even in New York before Dublin!!

I agree the new Roches is worse than the old one. No imagination or decent materials used in its design! As for the new look Ilac, don’t bother leave it as it is……………..

Yep, ZARA is moving in all right. I suppose the development ain’t all that bad. Wait and see……

Some of the cladding is now visible on Roches, at the M&S end of the building.

now that m&s has been mentioned, i think it is probably the worst building on the street, and the fact that they were given permission to extend a few years ago, further enlarging the blank concrete dump, makes matters worse …

Yep, its awful, esp when seen from the far end of Liffey St.

Saw the Roches cladding this morning, looks rather snazzy, but of course it will, when it’s brand new, and before we see the other 3 acres tacked on…

You can get a good look at Roches now….

perosnally i think the m&s buildings is one of the ugliest in the city.

the new roches store cladding looks fine, but as someone else said previously, it reminds me a bit of a B&Q warehouse.

It is certainly unusual, and not at all what I was expecting. It all hinges on what happens to the Ilac Centre now. If they can come up with something to compliment the new facade, it could turn ‘bold’ and ‘imaginative’ into bold and imaginative.

As for M&S, the front of it is a disgrace, but the side of it really makes Liffey St look cheap. At times you would despair of Dublin; for every okay street there is an unnecessarily rundown bargain basement street just around the corner.

I don’t like the lamps or the flags on henry St anyway. They completely crowd a fairly narrow street. The street should use wall lamps, and the flagpoles should be removed altogether. Every time I look down the street I can’t get over how cluttered it is.

and all the street furniture is starting to look old and tatty. I think its got alot to do with the facades of buildings as well. There doesn’t seem to be any guidelines to introduce uniformity to the street

you have to admit though, the “cum on the streets” flag is hilarious.

Henry St is never appriciated for being one of the finest streets in Dublin architecturally, it really is stunning over ground level, esp standing outside Arnotts looking towards the Spire, the buildings lining this part are so beautiful and form what is really the only unified commercial terrace in Dublin, lots of red brick, terracotta, Dutch Billy features, sandstone mullions etc, all assembled by the late Victorians & Edwardians.

Its a pity that the middle part of the st is so poor, indeed you have to walk pass all these eyesores get to ‘the good stuff’ again, in the form of Jervis and it’s bumbling collection of ‘brick and sashed’ properties, and of course the exquisite and equally unappriciated Penneys building (I know it has a proper name, can’t remember!)
Penneys at last have applied for permission to replace its tatty 80s shopfront with cut stone that will not detract from the building, and no historic elements will be removed.
Work is already underway.

I agree Stephen that a lot of the furniture is very tatty, largely caused by those bloody stickers that are put up by protesters and campaginers that are never removed, or are peeled at, leaving sticky residues behind.
Why is’nt this banned in the city, so much of our street furniture and lamposts have been destroyed by them, whats going to happen to the acres of stainless steel going onto O’ Connell St?

was standing at the corner of liffey street looking at the new RS facade. could not think of what it reminded of. the security man from the jewelers came over and give me his opinion for some reason. he did not like it in no uncertain terms.

anyway, then it struck me. it looks like the side of one on those hugh ocean going cruise liners.

If I recall correctly the very first escalator in Ireland was installed in Roches Stores in Henry Street. Early 1960’s.

Not a lot of people know that!

You could be right – there was one very ancient set of escalators in the centre of the store – very narrow

Do you think the new building will look like M&S in a few years time once it has weather and gone out of fashion. Personally I think it does nothing for the street and is completely out of context to the surrounding buildings. Maybe the revamped ILAC and Dunnes Stores buildings will improve it.

I agree that Henry St is actually not a bad street, especially when it is quietish, and the upper levels of buildings are lovely.

However there are five problems:

1. Ilac Centre : soon to be fixed

2. Liffey St: for such a small street, it could be and should be a gem. I would add trees to it to compensate for the lack of colour on Henry St.

3. Mary St: Investment is slowly creeping down the street. Hopefully when the draft masterplan for the fruit markets kicks in it will really begin to get a facelift as the main link st.

4. Moore St: Dependant on Carlton Ilac etc…

4. Talbot St: I hate that street so much. Every second building is either in ruins, or virtually a prefab. I would issue an architectural competition to select sixty different architects; they get a building on Talbot St each to reface, 15 million per building, and are told to impress the world!

Did Newenham Mulligan do the new large Dunnes Stores in Limerick as well? Seen it last week and its very very similar in materials and detailing…

That new frontage on Roches Stores looks as if it was somewhat influenced by the new National Gallery of Ireland extension.

Don’t they say ‘imitation the highest form of flattery’

…uncanny!

Current position….

If you stand outside the Jervis Centre or M&S and face Roches, it looks like it has just arrived from outer space, a mammoth bulky cumbersome lump, dazzling white, crashing down onto Henry St – crushing all of the original streetscape on it’s site.

Of course they’re only trying to make it look better – badly – but there is no way on the face of this planet, not even the planet it came from, would such a structure get planning permission today.

Its intrusion onto the streetscape is barely concievible in it’s arrogance, we so often pass it unheeding as it has so long been mere wallpaper, but this ‘facelift’, and seen from the west is makes it absolutely monstrous in scale.

C’mon Graham…if Benson & Forsythe had designed it half the architects in the country would probably be raving about its understated minimalism and brave juxstaposition of platonic planar forms…its obviously a bottom line budget driven attempt on improving the previous facade….(sans glazing which no doubt was a client directive) Out of interest….what would you have proposed

I don’t mean the design, I’m talking about the scale of the building – as I say they’re only trying to make the place look better which has to be welcomed, ie they’re making the best out of a bad situation.
Nothing can take away from the massive scale of the structure, and the new white finish only serves to highlight it’s size.

What would I propose?
Aside from razing it to the ground – if I even suggest the word window, there’ll be a backlash of ‘windows are soooooo over-rated’ etc, so I’ll stay quiet on the issue.

Its true!……windows ARE overrated…its a real pane…I think the profession should look into this…then upon reflection…maybe not…I’m just fenestrated with the whole idea. There’s just no clear rationale. The whole idea of windows should be planar and simple really…ope you agree?

How about “LE Enterprise”?

took a stroll down henry street last weekend, first time since june.

in my humble but anguish ridden opinion, the revised facade of roches stores is an absolute abomination. i cant begin to comprehend how awful its going to look in 2 years, not to mind 20. terrible standard of finish, staining, ugly patina forming, shoddy detailing and finishing. not pretty.

any opinions?

and garethace, please dont try and relate this to limerick in any way

I saw it too yesterday – good God it’s massive – moreso thanthe last time I saw it without that black yoke looming over the top like Independence Day.

It will indeed be hugely dated in a few years and the condition of the concrete will be far from pretty.

I’ve no idea why the glazing on the corners is not centred to highlight these entrances, it looks messy now.

I did’nt see staining and I don’t know what a patina is so can’t comment.

The building is disasterously large in scale, the earlier likening to the Stena HSS is perfectly fitting.

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
On the Zara front – the initial plan was to locate in the Grafton St area… but property prices in Dublin had caused them to reach for the smelling salts. So (cheaper) Henry St was chosen – but I think Roches has since fallen out with them (premature announcements were made before deals were closed etc etc).

I point my learned friend towards the media & advertising column of last weekend’s Sunday Times

Zara to star in Roches opening

Roches Stores, the department store chain, plans to open the doors on its newly expanded flagship store in Dublin’s Henry Street on November 4. Costing about €50m, the redevelopment will expand its retailing capacity from 70,000 ft sq over three floors to 130,000 ft sq on five floors. As part of the redevelopment, Zara, the Spanish fashion retailer, will open a 20,000-ft-sq shop with frontage on to Henry Street. This will be Zara’s first outlet in the republic. Roches recently relocated its head office to Sandyford to make way for the extra shopping space and the store will include a number of new restaurants, cafes and ATM cash machines. Roches, which is family-owned, operates 11 stores around the country.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-824215,00.html

graham

i was there on a fairly miserable day and what i think i saw was mist settling and condensing, then running through cracks and washing out dust and construction crap, it looked pretty bad. i’m sure it just came off with rain but it just highlighted the panel size and lack of relation to the street.

The basic problem I have with the design is that it is horizontal in emphasis, made up of massive horizontal panels.

Henry St, like every other street, is made up of a terrace – which in turn is comprised of vertical buildings or units.

Roches blatently breaks the rules as it were, and hence just bullies its way onto the streetscape screaming ‘look at me’.

If the panels were vertical, perhaps alternated with strips of vertical glass (windows) it would address the street so much better.

€50 million is a lot – to put it in context – the massive Arnotts extention, refitting and restoration cost approx €58 million.

Is this Zara really that special?, I hear loads of people at work here eulogising it too!!!

Zara is nothing special, we’re talking Marks and Spencers quality. Mexx is much better quality and they have stores here.

Does anyone know when/ if the Ikea store is
ever going to materialize in Ireland ??
This country needs and deserves one.

not too good at the linking and such, but look at the two rendered images that accompanied the first post on this thread. personally i dont think they’re accurately prtraying whats been built. wide perspectives and soft focus seem to accentuate the building, where the reality is so disappointing. i just wonder how much of a sell were such renders, and how much they were selectivel shown to planners to convince them of granting permission

Zara is nothing special, we’re talking Marks and Spencers quality. Mexx is much better quality and they have stores here.

What makes Zara special is that they sell high quality clothes at reasonable prices and also have an amazing turnaround time for their products (6 weeks from initial design to shop). If they keep the pricing structure the way they have in the rest of europe they will wipe the floor with the competition.

Not being particularly welldressed or interested, i quite liked the zara i visited in Barcelona…. the other half on the other hand cannot wait for the store to open….

So the clothes may look good but the building is cack!

observer, modern buildings not lending themselves to public buildings, nice new cobbles, bad modern shop (ill agree with that one tho) ,

are you observing through the eyes of prince charles ?

Eah?

The revamped store is nearing completion… I think the opening date is Nov 4. Today they are laying paving around the store on Henry St. And guess what,while it is the high quality grantite slabs used on the street there is no effort to keep to the pattern used perviously of pink stone surrounded by granite…. attention to detail and all that.

Mind you an article in the City Life section of Tues Indo asked why we were spending such huge sums on lovely quality paving when the slabs were being sug up as quick and replaced with tarmac. And when you look at (the €2m repaved) Henry St you can see what the writer meant. Still at least its all level…unike our roads!! Well done lads!

Its the only street in the city thats a pleasure to walk on in terms of ‘levelness’, the row of cobbling along the shopfronts is also nice.

The speed at which Roches’ interior is coming along is incredible, pity the same contractors weren’t hired for Luas! And the new centered entrance al last gives something back to the street, as do the new windows and canopy.
And I have to admit, in the dark and rain yesterday, the building did look amazing in all of it’s newness, the halogens inside sparking through the new glass corners and lights glittering through the projecting window at the top of the building.

They’ve started to open up the interior of the building, new escalator atrium opens up the 5 floors of retails space quite well – still a bit of a mess down there but improving nicely.

Sure the store will be soleless but at least it will be 21st century soleless and not 1960s soleless that was there before!

Are people who initially shot it down now warming to it.

I think it looks remarkable! As other people have mentioned I am kind of worried about how it will look a few years down the line when the concrete starts to deteriorate. There are so many concrete overhangs. I wonder will they have problems with falling masonary come 20-30 years like a few other buildings ’round the city atthe moment!!

I just like sparkly lights

some parts of it are very cool for a shop (possibly too cool?) but its one of those buildings that pains you because it has some really nice parts and then the whole is let down by, either laziness or lack of design ability.

have to commend roches for putting in the effort, facade possibly too black for the street tho

I have always liked the facade. People have compared it to an ocean liner. That is what I like about it!

The mass of scaffolding slowly growing over the Ilac centre is also good news. Hopefully they have come up with a really stylish replacement for the entire existing mall…

Does anyone know who the contractor???

Crampton are doing the Ilac. As for Roches I’m not sure.

Might be Pierse, not sure.
Was in there yesterday having a nose around – like everyone else – and was bowled over by a soaring new atrium going up the 4/5 floors of the shop, riddled with escalators etc.

Pretty impressive. Done on the cheap as all the floor edges and the undersides of the escalators are completly featureless, just clean-cut plaster. Other stores always put halogens or some type of snazzy lighting in these architectural spaces.
Dosn’t look cheap though – they’re using the ‘less is more’ excuse.

Visited there at lunchtime, Zara section opening next week but here are some pics

exterior 1

Interesting view from the restaurant

Interior in the atrium

view from the basement up

Your man on the escalator seems equally bedazzled

so what do people think of roches since theyve had a chance to walk around the place?

its seems to have done the trick from a commercial point of view its always packed to the rafters. pretty snazzy glass sheet tvs hanging from the roof. the restaurant projecting is a relly nice idea but i think its ruined by being a little mean in the width department. good view from the top. theres two redundant spaces above each of the corner entrances, or a re these going to be used for displaying later?

all in all its growing on me, especially at an oblique angle down the street. still think the facade is a little inarticulated but hey..

so what do people think of roches since theyve had a chance to walk around the place?

its seems to have done the trick from a commercial point of view its always packed to the rafters. pretty snazzy glass sheet tvs hanging from the roof. the restaurant projecting is a relly nice idea but i think its ruined by being a little mean in the width department. good view from the top. theres two redundant spaces above each of the corner entrances, or a re these going to be used for displaying later?

all in all its growing on me, especially at an oblique angle down the street. still think the facade is a little inarticulated but hey..

so what do people think of roches since theyve had a chance to walk around the place?

its seems to have done the trick from a commercial point of view its always packed to the rafters. pretty snazzy glass sheet tvs hanging from the roof. the restaurant projecting is a relly nice idea but i think its ruined by being a little mean in the width department. good view from the top. theres two redundant spaces above each of the corner entrances, or a re these going to be used for displaying later?

all in all its growing on me, especially at an oblique angle down the street. still think the facade is a little inarticulated but hey..

A year on what do you all think about it?

Although since they shut the food store they have filled this section with the crappy old stuff they used to sell (Ilac end) hopefully this is not a sign of things to come!

That is a really interesting point you make about Zara’s window and it is something that architects should never lose sight of when designing retail.

It is something that has really improved in recent years, one scheme that I noticed recently is the new Jurys in Parnell St and the marketing of the retail at ground floor is really interesting in so much as you are only aware that the building is to let and not open retail within about 20 metres of it.

All in all it is hard to disagree that Roches MUST form the basic standard architecturally for all developments between Parnell St and the Quays from now on.

I agree with Rory that the rere stock being carried by Roches is a worrying development and wouldn’t compare favourably to your average retail warehouse. But Zara

I hope they open a second outlet somewhere within the City Centre they are the anchor that everyone would want.

The window settings are fantastic, esp the current one. The lighting is equally impressive.

Overall, I’m still not a fan of the scale of the building in relation to the street – ok a building that size is always going to have an impact, but if you compare it to the original building you can really appreciate how the new design has swelled it into an overbearing structure. I still think there’s too much faceless concrete as well.
Saying that, the corner glazing is lovely, esp contrasted with the equally dashing black granite which is one of the best features of the building. Secret fire escapes have been impressively hidden in the stone too.
I was walking along Henry St recently with someone and the collapse of Charles De Gaulle Airport came up for some reason – but we were just saying how much we take for granted the stability of buildings, putting complete trust in engineers and regualtions – just as we were walking beneath Roches cantilevered restaurant! Suffice to say we inched our way to the other side of the street pretty smartish 🙂

I’ve always this building has a strange sense of being on its side i.e. it looks like a conventional enough building but merely the elevation has been turned 90 degrees. This angle is particularly accentuated when viewed from the O’Connell St side of Henry St. The feature window on the second floor is fantastic in this context.

Anyone kinda regret initially slagging off Roches Stores makeover, yet now they kinda appreciate it?

Maybe it’s because the CGI looked cack

I like it lots now – was worried about the facade being bald but it works and works well. Now if Arnotts could just sort out their main facade and do away with the prefab look…

Hear hear!

What is happening with the Ilac centre. Is there a master plan for the development (it seems to have three seperate entities) and has anyone seen waht we can expect once the redevelopment is complete?

Originally posted by Rory W
Now if Arnotts could just sort out their main facade and do away with the prefab look…

I presume you’re talking about the loony ’60s curtain wall bit to the west of the main facade with its blue & cyan panels – I think it’s good & should be kept. Dublin was full of these facades not too long ago, but soon there’ll be very few left, so many have been or will be refaced/replaced; Guardian Insurance on Stephen’s Green (refaced in granite with a big copper roof), O’Connell Bridge House (made worse), Pelican House (demolished) – and now the Bank of Ireland on Suffolk St (has current planning app for glass facade by Donnelly Turpin), the Department of Justice (recently sold) and Hawkins House (revamp or demolition awaiting).

Most of them were awful of course, but when you see it used here in-scale in a street context it’s a harmless bit of ‘sixties interest – & the fact that it sits there amidst the main 1894 Arnotts building and the 21st century Roches across the street. I’d be sorry to see it go (which it probably will sooner or later).

Adjoining the ’60s bit of Arnotts on the other side is the newly-opened ‘Office’ shoeshop, which has a marvellously simple white shopfront (though will probably get filthy soon & have to be re-painted a darker colour). The building above is a delicious circa 1900 red brick & yellow terracotta gabled affair, like a minature version of Hodges Figgis on Dawson Street (it’s probably by the same architect).

The ’80s brown brick yoke on the Henry St/Liffey St. corner is truly awful! In fact both corners of this junction are awful.

Originally posted by Devin

I presume you’re talking about the loony ’60s curtain wall bit to the west of the main facade with its blue & cyan panels – I think it’s good & should be kept. Dublin was full of these facades not too long ago, but soon there’ll be very few left, so many have been or will be refaced/replaced; Guardian Insurance on Stephen’s Green (refaced in granite with a big copper roof), O’Connell Bridge House (made worse), Pelican House (demolished) – and now the Bank of Ireland on Suffolk St (has current planning app for glass facade by Donnelly Turpin), the Department of Justice (recently sold) and Hawkins House (revamp or demolition awaiting).

I must agree with you on this one Devin. I must say though, I am not familiar with what was done with O’Connell Bridge House, can you tell me more about it. I like the one with the Carrolls Gift Shop on Suffolk Street. The Science Block in UCD has gradually been altered over the last few years to being predominantly dark blue in colour compared to its old green colour. I must say that I think makes the building look much better. I am looking forward to seeing the finished Dublin Bus building on O’Connell Street when the side pieces are replaced. The new shop front works well.

I won’t hear a bad word said about O’Connell Bridge House! The first post in this thread has two pictures for comparison:

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1734

O’Connell Bridge House is a dreadful building, it has now been up for letting for over 4 years, the market is seldom wrong.

Any truth in the rumers that H&M are moving into Easons old shop in the Ilac Center?