request for clarification U2 tower

not specifically directed at you my honorable friend

infact your initial question about the harp was very funny

as was acitos response!

i however personally feel that a building with references to a celtic harp (guiness branded or otherwise) being much more relevant to the irish people than that of the twisty winner

a spinning top??????

does this have some incredible significance in the irish subconcious.

and even so, does the bulding remind you of a spinning top?

NOT I said the cat

not in anyway does it make me think of a spinning top until the architect says so.

spinning tops are about centrifugal or centipetal forces that create a stability through velocity

THAT IS NOT A SPINNING TOP
THAT IS POST RATIONALISATION
THAT IS BRAIN WANKINGG

what if craig henry had justified their proposal by saying that it came up while playing twister! or from eating one of those pink and yellow twister candies.
or from using the distort tools in photoshop on a picture of canary wharf tower?????

as with 3W proposal, what is the attributable significance of a concrete campanile???

sure acitos development of the project was a bit literal/formal in some senses. and a more poetic expression of what an architectural harp could be might have gotten them further???

but to be honest.

none of these proposals acknowledge one very important part of the program.

That this building (which ever one they finally build (ifa any) will be known as the U2 Tower.

Certainly there are questions of whether people would want to rent an apartment in a branded tower. but some of the most significant and specific requirements in the brief were regarding the recording studios and roof top access/facilities for the band.

So in that respect i think all those mentioned above missed the point/a point of the “Landmark” status of the building.

Abbey road is a mecca for beatles fans, as will the original u2 studios be (whatver happens to them)

but this tower will become the new place to pilgramage for U2 fans (a chance to get a glimpse of the band) at the top of the tower.

There was one project which althugh copying anish kappoors marsyrys accmomplished this in some way with a big “ear horn” structure going through the whole building and linking the studios to the ground floor.

Or maybe even el architinos project whch houses the band in a pit/cage for people to look down upon.

as for other specific requirements and back to the fire stair issue.

“i see seven towers, and i only see one way out”

dont know which song this is but its by U2

maybe this is some form of nostradmic prediction?

anyway

more thughts to come.

but i do not wish to surpress your opinions.

mrely poiting out that negtive criticism at this stage does not really benefit anyone, unless it makes them relook at the project and think about what it could of been.

,maybe they are happy with teh formal qualities of the harp.

maybe they think nothing could be added to or taken away without compromising the project.

in which case acito need to start again from first principles and look at a real celtic harp

or maybe a spinning top!

but this forum should be a place for positive criticism

not dumping on people

congratulations on your first class degree

and your successes in architectural competitions.

personally i feel the latter is more important than the former

education being notoriously incestuous

and whilst you may have worked very hard, there are many talented people ou there who do not have a first clss (or even any) degree

tadao ando
FLW

etc
etc

i respect your anonymity

but please email me (through the forum) with some images and explanations of your work! (Prize winning or otherswise)

i would be intersted to se them

ok

got to go for dinner

catch you later

I stand by my earlier comments.

If acito and partners weren’t open to criticism they shouldn’t enter competitions.

If they aren’t willing to hear peoples opinions on their work they shouldn’t post images and conceptual writings about such work on public access forums.

If they are not willing to take comments from an irish architecture student made as honestly as possible, then they shouldn’t highlight their plight with regards a competition they chose voluntarily to enter, for an irish site.

bluefoam,
respectfully, please dont try to inform me as to my role on this firm. If i was a year or two younger i’d tell you to fugg off grandad. I was being quite reserved in my comments about this scheme. I chose not to give my opinions about the letter in question, because i dont think they would be productive in any way. I’ve been involved in competitions in the past and i appreciate their concerns as to the proper running of such a competition, but dont think they have the right to complain because of the reasons I’ve already outlined

on the issue of contempt, please reserve your judgment on my language and phrasing. It is productive to give forth an honest opinion on these forums. telling people to shut up, watch their mouths, mind what they say, and stop being critical is frankly stupid and merely ruins what could otherwise be free flowing debate. I’ve often questioned the points of garethace and asked him to aim for brevity, only because of the difficulty in reading his long posts and garnering information from them in the time it takes my boss to get back from a coffee. I’ve always been open to ideas and suggestions outside my frame of reference, in the hope of widening that frame.

I have no wish to enter a tit for tat debate on the rights and wrongs of posting on these forums. But given that its name is archiseek, and it is a forum on all things architecture, I’d like you to explain how your unending wranglings on the issue of legality, justice, politics, institutional policy, and competition procedure, are more valid than my open critique of a conceptual scheme.

And finally, I personally don’t wish to invite a critique of my work, for the same reasons as what?. I value this facility to discuss and debate my interests, and value my anonymity from those who I choose not to identify myself to. It is, in my opinion, petty and futile to suggest that criticism, constructive or otherwise, is not welcome from those who won’t open their own portfolio.

i remember the expo building which was hailed as quite a masterpiece in fledgling irish modernism. it was a shamrock in plan which held relevance (altough i still think tacky) when seen from the detached realm of aeroplanes approching the fair in newyork, if i remember correctly (air travel being relatively new and a symbol of the modern world back then). however, it appeared as a reasonably restrained moderist building when experienced on the ground in reality. had the building had a shamrock shaped section or elevation i dont think anyone would have lavished it with such praise.

as for the spinning top issue, i think the twisting of this tower as a contrived and cheap trick. this formal manipulation is just a simplistic way of making the tower recognisable and serves no other purpose than being different (and infinitely harder to construct with no added merit)

i just think that irish society has reached a level of culture which has gone past the need for in your face obviousness. we have and still do, produce some of the greatest poet writers artists and musicians in the world from a ridiculously small population. yet we still get portrayed as guiness drinking farmers with potatoes growing out of our ears who wouldnt know what a subtlety was if it knocked us off our bar stool. we dont need blatent symbolism anymore, people are more sophisticated now. you wouldnt propose a new tower in paris in the shape of a baugette, that would be an insult to the culture and people of the city. have a bit of respect for the people of dublin.
anyway in the global society we live in today defucnt symbols and icons of countries have little or no relevance other than nostalgia.
we need to find some real relevance and identity, we need to progress not go back to the famine.

by the way, despite what tadao ando might want you to belive in his quest for an enigmatic aura, he did study architecture. in between boxing for a living!

too much ranting for this time of the morning

I just love this passion that is being aired here!…………..maybe this is the best result of the competition…………….DEBATE………….and..DISCOURSE! The owners of this site should publish the whole set of communications and illustrations/Images as some sort of up-beat “Honeywell Diaries” ( anyone remember that one?)….make a fortune…..hey! and that was my idea so I expect a cut on the royalties chaps!

But sadly that is the only good thing …………..the rest is just like bottled Guinness….sounds and looks good………but when you drink it…………nothing like the real thing!

As for Internationalism and Nationalism…………….. wake up chaps, you’ve missed the war……….let’s get it on collectively and wear sandals and dufflecoats. It not about any of this………….It about EGO…………….the one things that drives the Architect…..there is of course a difference of presentation of the ID………..some call it arrogance others genius………………it’s just a question of how much sense of humour and confidence you include.

It’s just a shame there was really no supernatural sparks from this event…………….just a rather damp fart.

“Yes! we have no bananas!”

You know it was the Romans who first brought that fabulous “F” word to middle and Northern Europe…………along with straight roads and central heating. Nothing much has really changed since then; still have the “F” word, a desire for immediate transport and unhealthy disregard for the environment. Remember Nero and his harp and burnt bits-and-pieces. Seems strangely familiar here also! The Main Man just needs to gain some weight!

I agree whole-heartedly that the tragedy of the world surpasses that of this is sorry affair. Who really cares if it’s a harp , a dog biscuit , a penis or all three. It’ll become history and all will forget. The Taj Mahal was built in this manner, with the reigning Taj commenting on completion that he’d now idea why they had built it. The Eiffel tower ( read-Roland Barthes) was attacked as being “ugly” and “useless” when it was announced it was to stay in Paris for ever.

But. what of the ID, the-they and existentialism…………. Hey it’s not to say that it matters, it simply a fact that it exits and it prevalent in most architects. It’s that Freudian thing………….it’s simply part of the psyche……….nothing more nothing less, and therefore conditions how, for example, an architect behaves.

OK, seminar over chaps, let’s get back to the drink