reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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Thats the question…..
Will they standover the alleged comment he made “he had spoken to the Local Planning Authority (Cobh Town Council) and he was given to understand that they would be “cooperative” and try to help in any way possible with whatever he might want to do.” or are we to take this as their greenlight to anything he comes up with once a “new plan”. Does this mean approval in their minds is a foregone conclusion…. or they believe the church and the OPW come under the same umbrella and OPW stands for Override Planning Wisdom@Fearg wrote:
Any idea as to what these new plans entail? Are they really new?
No one has been consulted. Everything appears to have been done behind closed doors. We have yet to see plans – probably not earlier than when/if they will be lodged for a planning application.
@Praxiteles wrote:
Gianlorenzo!
It strikes me that we will have to revise that figure again. I forgot to reckon going/coming for 7 people. Thus the figure now is :
120 divided by (7 x 5), all divided by 7
So, that should be 85 minutes divided by 7 which now leaves everybod with an average maximum of 12.14 minutes with the Pope.
I have also checked the Vatican Gazzette for the following two weeks and no further Audience was granted to our bold bishop. So, after nearly a month in Rome he had the Pope’s ear for all of 12.14 minutes max. That, I suppose, was generous when you consider that Prime Ministers get a max of 30 minutes.
The point is clear from the Gazzette of the Audience of 30 October 2006 when the Pope received the Prime Minister of East Timor who would have had 30 minutes.
Then he received the Ambassador of Pakistan who would have had 15 minutes.
Then he received only 4 Irish bishops that morning, each getting circa. 10 minutes.
That adds up to 85 minutes. The remaining time was spent greeting a group.
So, clearly, there was no long term conversation with the Pope about St. Colman’s Cathedral.
http://212.77.1.245/news_services/bulletin/news/19118.php?index=19118&po_date=27.10.2006&lang=en
Does that mean we are lying again?
@Praxiteles wrote:
No one has been consulted. Everything appears to have been done behind closed doors. We have yet to see plans – probably not earlier than when/if they will be lodged for a planning application.
Again, I raise the ticklish issue of accountability – which no one on this thread seems able to answer.
Perhaps he thinks that by dragging the plans into an audience with the Pope and presenting them in the 12.14-minute timeslot available, he is being ‘accountable,’ but it certainly suggests a backroom approach to a serious issue that involves the faithful flock in Cobh. Besides, it would serve as a rather pathetic distraction from the myriad other pastoral issues now afflicting the local church of Cloyne.
Praxiteles earlier wrote: “By now now we must not be able to see the light any more.” I give him much more credit. It’s light that he sees – just the other train coming from the other end of the tunnel.
@descamps wrote:
Does that mean we are lying again?
Whats the term so often used in Dail Eireann…”disingenuous”
By any chance were you able to earwig any snippets of what the New plan might entail….
Here is something we missed!
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/1999/07/21/ihead_27.htm
It gives a good insight into the level we are dealing with: “kind of harmony”, “blend in with”….
@samuel j wrote:
Whats the term so often used in Dail Eireann…”disingenuous”
By any chance were you able to earwig any snippets of what the New plan might entail….
There is no information as yet about any plans or who drew them up. The local council knows nothing about ‘new plans’ or ‘meetings’ – it is all very odd. Likewise the Heritage office of Cork Co. Council.
Perhaps the bold Bishop had his laptop with him when he met the Pontiff running their “The hi tech computer display which allows visitors a 3D view of what the new interior will look like”
or perhaps the whole discussion too was only virtual reality….
@Gianlorenzo wrote:
There is no information as yet about any plans or who drew them up. The local council knows nothing about ‘new plans’ or ‘meetings’ – it is all very odd. Likewise the Heritage office of Cork Co. Council.
What about Denis Deasey, does he know anything about plans?
@samuel j wrote:
Perhaps the bold Bishop had his laptop with him when he met the Pontiff running their “The hi tech computer display which allows visitors a 3D view of what the new interior will look like”
or perhaps the whole discussion too was only virtual reality….
“only virtual reality”
Now that beats even “disingenuous”! So the Pope virtually approved the virtual plans for the virtual renovation of St Colman’s.
Does virtual retirement ever arise in virtual conversations?
It looks as though Irish vandalism and ignorance are now being exported. While looking for a photograph of the Chapel of the Irish College in Louvain to illustrate the arrangement of a sanctuary with three altars – a feature of churches built by Br. M.A. O’Riordan – I was aghast to find that the 17th. century interior of the chapel of St. Anthony’s College in Louvain has only recently been compkletely demolished by the governments of Northern Ireland and of the Irish Republic to provide a 200 seater auditorium for an Irish “cultural” centre in Louvain. Can you credit that?
Modern Ulster Architecture: New Book
New thread was started on this subject today – what might be of interest to regulars on this thread, is that the book contains articles on many of Liam McCormick’s churches from the 60s and 70s, many of which have been discussed here. Including Burt, Steelstown (tent) and Glenties..
@Fearg wrote:
Modern Ulster Architecture: New Book
New thread was started on this subject today – what might be of interest to regulars on this thread, is that the book contains articles on many of Liam McCormick’s churches from the 60s and 70s, many of which have been discussed here. Including Burt, Steelstown (tent) and Glenties..
Ferg!
Do we have any publishing details to hand on this work?
Pope backs Bishop’s Cathedral plans
Form the Evening Echo 25-11-06
By: Ronan BagnallTHE BISHOP Of Cloyne Dr John Magee will put forward new proposals to change St. Colman’s Cathedral in Cobh in the coming weeks.
Bishop Magee said his new plans for the cathedral were endorsed by Pope Benedict XVI on a recent trip to Rome.
He called a meeting of all priests in the Diocese earlier this week to inform them of his latest proposal.
Bishop Magee’s previous attempt to re-order the church caused a “storm of controversy in Cobh earlier this year and a group of local objectors campaigned against the plan.
The trustees of St Colman’s Cathedral, which includes Bishop Magee, had planned to relocate the altar rails and extend the sanctuary to the nave, which would have involved disturbing the mosaic floor.
However, An Bord Pleanala rejected the planning application because St Colman’s was “a most important example of 19-century Gothic architecture.â€
In July, Bishop Magee decided against pursuing the matter to the High Court, but insisted the present state of the church did not meet the proper liturgical requirements.
His latest plan to change the cathedral is likely to be met with similar opposition from the. Friends of St Cohman’s Cathedral (FOSCC), the group who strongly fought against his initial proposal.
FOSCC spokesman, Adrian O’Donovan said: “We will strongly object to any plan that will lead to the destruction of our Catherdal.
Any planning application to Cobh Town Council will be thoroughly considered before we decide to take action.â€
The FOSCC are demanding written evidence that Pope Benedict has endorsed the new plan.What ever happened to accurate reporting?
The headline should read ” Bishopy SAYS Pope Backs Cathedral Plans.
So far the Bishop has said that:
he had backing from Cardinal Arinze – not true,
that the changes were required under Vatican II – not true
that he has spoken to the Local Planning Authority – not true
and now
that he has the backing of the Pope – ???????kite wrote:Pope backs Bishop’s Cathedral plansForm the Evening Echo 25-11-06
By: Ronan BagnallTHE BISHOP Of Cloyne Dr John Magee will put forward new proposals to change St. Colman’]
Bishop Magee has a credibility problem in the wake of his previous dealings both with the FOSCC, the People of Cobh, and with the public authorities in Cobh Urban District Council and in An Bord Pleanala. At the outset of the Cathedral controvrsy the bishop made a solemn promise at public meeting in the Commodore Hotel in Cobh that nothing would be done to the Cathedral until he came back and consulted the people again. He tried to get out of that by ensuring that he never again appeared a public meeting in Cobh and tried to fob the populace off by sending the local clergy to tell them what he had in mind during the station Masses. In October 2003, he was writing to Rome telling them that he had completed his plans and wanted the famous “word of encouragement” for those who drew them up. In April 2004 he told the FOSCC in writing that no plans had been finalised. He told Cobh UDC and An Bord Planala that that the changes he was proposing for the Cathedral were “required” by the liturgical norms when they most certainly are not (and sufficient professional evidence was brought forward in the Midleton Oral Hearing to make that clear). What are we to make of a claim that the Pope approved his plans during the recent trip to Rome? At best, it must have been a very superficial conversation given that after nearly a month’s stay in Rome Bishop Magee had the Pope’s ear for all of 12.14 minutes on 20 October 2006. At worst, the bishop is either on a mushroom or two or esle we are fibbing again.
I would say the FOSCC is very wise to ask to see the alleged “approval” in writing – they are probably on to a winner there!
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