reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

@descamps wrote:

Hi Archangel and welcome to the thread.

Just because St. Gabriel’s is not a listed building does not mean that you have no options to prevent an unwanted and and unwelcome redevelopment of its interior. Not being listed mearly means that you have not the same range of options available to you as the Friends of St. Colman’s had.

1. An ecclesiastical recourse should be taken by the parishioners or a group of parishioners against the parish priest and Archbishop Martin at the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline fo the Sacraments in Rome. The procedure is straight forward enough but would be more securely followed had you the guidance and expertise of a canonist available to you. Simply write to the parish priest and Archbishop Martin asking them to rescind or amend the decrees that were issued (if issued at all) authorising the development of the interior of the church. If they agree to do so well and good. If not, and you do not hear from them within 28 days (and register your letters with a form of registration requiring signature for delivery) then you can place your case directly before the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments as a recourse and ask him to decide the merits of the case. Of course, while this is going on no work can or should take place.

2. Just as a precautionary measure, while your recopurse is going on you could approach the High Court seeking an order to prohibit development of the interior of the church until a decision is given in the ecclesiastical forum i.e. by the Congregation for Divine Worship adn the Discipline of the Sacraments.

3. It would also be useful to engage the services of a good company of solicitors. The Friends of St. Colman’s Cathedral were very well served by Arthur Cox and Co., Earlsford Terrace, Dublin 2.

Is it true that the great open minded Dirmuid Martin shafted the local curate when he came out in support of the parishioners opposed to the development of the church interior?

Is it true that the great open minded Dirmuid Martin shafted the local curate when he came out in support of the parishioners opposed to the development of the church interior?

Rhabanus smells corruption – and bullyism – and they stink the high heavens!

Cheers to descamps for advising the good Archangel to initiate the due process. No time to waste, Archangel! Use that angelic gift of agility to start the ball rolling.

I shouldn’t be surprised, though, if the wrecking ball slipped into gear before the process got off the ground. When dealing with Iconoclasts, one can never be up too early in the morning – literally! They like to get in before cock-crow so that when the faithful arrive for early Mass, the dirty deed is done and then suddenly no funds are available to repair the damage. But just watch the improvements added to the rectory or parish house. The Ven. J.H. Newman pointed out in the 19th century that funds were scarce for improvements to the church but readily available for improvements to the rectory. What a coincidence!!

Move with all due speed, Archangel, and keep us all informed as to the progress of St Gabriel’s iconodules. The good folk in Guelph Ontario were successful in warding off the wreckovator-priest Vasco, though the silly pastor had to pay him his 56,000.00 USD ‘architect’s fee’ to be rid of him. ‘A

@descamps wrote:

Hi Archangel and welcome to the thread.

Just because St. Gabriel’s is not a listed building does not mean that you have no options to prevent an unwanted and and unwelcome redevelopment of its interior. Not being listed mearly means that you have not the same range of options available to you as the Friends of St. Colman’s had.

1. An ecclesiastical recourse should be taken by the parishioners or a group of parishioners against the parish priest and Archbishop Martin at the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline fo the Sacraments in Rome. The procedure is straight forward enough but would be more securely followed had you the guidance and expertise of a canonist available to you. Simply write to the parish priest and Archbishop Martin asking them to rescind or amend the decrees that were issued (if issued at all) authorising the development of the interior of the church. If they agree to do so well and good. If not, and you do not hear from them within 28 days (and register your letters with a form of registration requiring signature for delivery) then you can place your case directly before the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments as a recourse and ask him to decide the merits of the case. Of course, while this is going on no work can or should take place.

2. Just as a precautionary measure, while your recopurse is going on you could approach the High Court seeking an order to prohibit development of the interior of the church until a decision is given in the ecclesiastical forum i.e. by the Congregation for Divine Worship adn the Discipline of the Sacraments.

3. It would also be useful to engage the services of a good company of solicitors. The Friends of St. Colman’s Cathedral were very well served by Arthur Cox and Co., Earlsford Terrace, Dublin 2.

Is it true that the great open minded Dirmuid Martin shafted the local curate when he came out in support of the parishioners opposed to the development of the church interior?

Is it true that the great open minded Dirmuid Martin shafted the local curate when he came out in support of the parishioners opposed to the development of the church interior?

Rhabanus smells corruption – and bullyism – and they stink the high heavens!

Cheers to descamps for advising the good Archangel to initiate the due process. No time to waste, Archangel! Use that angelic gift of agility to start the ball rolling.

I shouldn’t be surprised, though, if the wrecking ball slipped into gear before the process got off the ground. When dealing with Iconoclasts, one can never be up too early in the morning – literally! They like to get in before cock-crow so that when the faithful arrive for early Mass, the dirty deed is done and then suddenly no funds are available to repair the damage. But just watch the improvements added to the rectory or parish house. The Ven. J.H. Newman pointed out in the 19th century that funds were scarce for improvements to the church but readily available for improvements to the rectory. What a coincidence!!

Move with all due speed, Archangel, and keep us all informed as to the progress of St Gabriel’s iconodules. The good folk in Guelph Ontario were successful in warding off the wreckovator-priest Vasco, though the silly pastor had to pay him his 56,000.00 USD ‘architect’s fee’ to be rid of him. ‘A fool and his money are soon parted.’

May the Archangel ward off the angel of death from the precincts of St Gabriel’s!

Courtesy of Alan, a young photographer in Cobh, here are some views of St. Colman’s Cathedral from where it is best seen – a boat on the harbour:

Olomuc in Moravia: the marian Column

Prostejove (or Prossnitz in German) in Moravia, the Marian cloumn of 1714

Prossnitz was birth place of Edmund Husserl

Courtesy of the very excellent website The New Liturgical Movement: http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/ comes news of this story in England, concerning the reordering of the cathedral in Leeds which is the church of Bishop Roche.

http://www.dioceseofleeds.org.uk/fullstory.php?newsid=455

If you are very patient, the slide show at the bottom of the window, once it has gone through interminable pictures of various dignitaries, shows some details of the new sanctuary.

It commits one of Prax’s favourite liturgical sins of having the bishop descend from his cathedra to an altar placed at the same general level of the sanctuary, not having a footpace of its own.

Also one of mine: Having an axial cathedra in a neo-Gothic church…

I would urge all visitors here to check out The New Liturgical Movement which is a serious minded site dedicated to the very necessary ‘reform of the reform’ of the sacred liturgy and also to the wider provision of the Classical Rite. It has features on architecture, sacred chant and polyphony and scholarly articles on liturgical issues. These range from the conservative to the ‘traditional’ spectrum; many are, however, very suitable for consideration for those mythical dwellers on the sun-lit uplands; The ‘mainstream’.

The Marian Column, erected in 1695, in Pilsen, western Bohemia

Courtesy of Alan, another rather unusual view of Cobh Cathedral taken from the harbour:

@Rhabanus wrote:

http://www.christendom.edu/images/library/column_blessing.jpg
Archbishop O’Brien blesses the Marian column in the piazza in front of the libary of Christendom College, Virginia.

What occasioned this monument?

St. Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, Co. Cork

The liturgical guffer is back:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5319418.stm