reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

Home › Forums › Ireland › reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

Viewing 20 posts - 1,601 through 1,620 (of 7,927 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #768814
    kite
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    I am posting these two images of the mosaic on the wall of the sanctuary which are probably by Ludwig Oppenheimer. Note the combination of a byzantine style with ats and crafts movement. Unfortunately, sections of the mosaci have blistered and are about to fall off of the wall due to water ingress. So far, nothing has been done to arrest the deterioration of this important work of art.

    😮 There may have been an excuse for this type of utter neglect in the past.
    Ireland is now supposed to be one of the richest countries in the world; we can give 1000 euro per child to workers from abroad, put up all and sundry in 4 star luxury despite breaking the European Union Dublin agreement (point of first entry to Europe), yet we allow our heritage to fall into the sewer on a daily basis like you mention….Hope it stay’s fine for us Irish??

    Fighting for GAMA, remember the PARC workers who went to build Iraq.
    Who fought for our workers when we did not get the 750 Irish pounds that would have been the weekly wage for scratching one’s ass in that Country in the 1970’s, Mohammad Joe Higgins, where were you then??:rolleyes:

    #768815
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Holy Cross Church, Charleville, Co. Cork

    Here are some shots of the lower ranges of the chancel wall:

    #768816
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Holy Cross Church, Charleville, Co. Cork.

    The lateral walls of the chancel with further mosaic work by Ludwig Oppenheimer

    #768817
    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    Holy Cross Church, Charleville, Co. Cork.

    The lateral walls of the chancel with further mosaic work by Ludwig Oppenheimer

    One would have thought that the local bishop, or at least the pastor of the church, would have launched an appeal to secure these works of ecclesiastical art. After all, preserving the artistic, cultural, spiritual, and liturgical patrimony of the Church falls under the pastoral responsibilities of a bishop. Money spent on building new churches in the shape of boats and Buddhas would be better spent shoring up the resources that already exist.

    There is something wrong with this picture, as kite points out.

    Connect the dots …..

    #768818
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Holy Cross Church, Charleville, Co. Cork

    The remaining outer sections of the lateral walls of the sanctuary.

    The first, shows the arch connecting to the Lady Chapel (still intact by some miracle):
    The other shows the arch connceting to the Sacred Heart Chapel (needlessly vandalized) and beyond the sacristy door:

    #768819
    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    Well…….have we any comments?

    Praxiteles,

    Whilst the world awaits the Liturgical Testament of bq, you and others concerned about the relationship between the earthly and the cosmic liturgy, with particular reference to architecture, may be interested in the work of a scholar, David Clayton, who is currently addressing the issue of liturgical architecture from a variety of interesting perspectives, including number. He is fully conversant with St Augustine’s understanding of the symbolism of numbers. Explore Clayton’s forthcoming article in Second Spring:

    http://www.secondspring.co.uk/articles/clayton2.htm.

    A pleasure to read such well-articulated insights.

    #768820
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The Church of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, Charleville, Co. Cork

    Two further pictures of the Sacred Heart Chapel.

    The first shows the lateral wall of the chapel with the door tot he sacristy:
    The other shows the position of the altar which was needlessly vandalized and the gaping hole in the wall filled up by sheets of limestone – completely out of place in this highly decorated interior. AFter the vandalism subsided, the statue of the Sacred Heart was returned. No longer having an altar on which to lace it, it remains standing on the floor, parked against the wall.

    #768821
    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    The Church of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, Charleville, Co. Cork

    Two further pictures of the Sacred Heart Chapel.

    The first shows the lateral wall of the chapel with the door to the sacristy:
    The other shows the position of the altar which was needlessly vandalized and the gaping hole in the wall filled up by sheets of limestone – completely out of place in this highly decorated interior. AFter the vandalism subsided, the statue of the Sacred Heart was returned. No longer having an altar on which to lace it, it remains standing on the floor, parked against the wall.

    What cretin would pull a stunt like this? Take another look at the photograph. The Sacred Heart, gazing downward, stands like a lawn ornament on the floor of this chapel . Obviously the statue was designed for a higher placement, say, on an altar of the Sacred Heart in a chapel dedicated to the Sacred Heart, so that the statue could look down upon the faithful praying before it. Is this too difficult to comprehend? Even children and those who lack full cognition can picture the dynamic originally intended. They, too, would object, correctly, to the current (mis)arrangement.

    The drudge who plunked down the Sacred Heart on the floor must consider the Pope Our Lord’s special and cool buddy, as the juxtaposition of the portrait of His Holiness with the statue makes little sense otherwise. Pope Benedict XVI and the Sacred Heart stand at eye-level one with the other (with the Pope given the dignity of an easel) and the proportions of each contrast with the other.

    The papal portrait belongs in the vestibule of the church, not sidling up to the statue of the Sacred Heart in the chapel of the Sacred Heart.

    The dreary spider plants merely underscore the depressing nature of this scene. At least the plants are arranged symmetrically on either side of the statue. [Note that the flower-arranger has better taste than the cretin who wrecked this chapel.] This symmetrical placement of the plants, however, emphasises the unsuitability of the papal portrait on an easel beside the Sacred Heart on the floor.

    Perhaps St Patrick’s, Maynooth ought to offer a few courses on art and architecture as well as a few dedicated to theories of aesthetic. This tasteless menage could be featured on a page in the textbook of horrors to be avoided.

    Deformity, grotesquery, and an unhealthy attraction to the bizarre seem to dominate religious ‘art’ and ‘architecture’ in today’s Ireland. Will somebody bring the Irish clergy to their senses? The Emperor is wearing NO CLOTHES. And the Sacred Heart is missing a plinth.

    #768822
    Rhabanus
    Participant

    Is there no accountability when a cleric takes a notion to wreckovate a church in Ireland? Are there no courses in the seminaries (ahem, seminary) where the responsibilities of a pastor toward the artistic and cultural patrimony of the church’s fabric are discussed even cursorily?

    Just in terms of the cura animarum or care of souls, how is authorising a travesty such as this pathetic betise even remotely helpful to the piety of the faithful or the proclamation of the Gospel?

    This kind of nonsense should be denounced for what it is. No wonder the churches in Ireland are being emptied. What reasonable soul could stand by and tolerate such blithering idiocy – then be asked in a dunning sermon to pay for such brutality?

    Do these wreckovators think they are immortalising themselves by such degradation? History will look upon the generation that undid the stunning artistry of the beautiful churches of the nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries and will laugh it to scorn.

    Puts one in mind of Shelley’s Ozymandias:

    “Two vast trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert ….

    and on the pedestal of the statue were inscribed the words:

    “My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings,

    Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

    Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare

    The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

    #768823
    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Rhabanus wrote:

    Is there no accountability when a cleric takes a notion to wreckovate a church in Ireland? Are there no courses in the seminaries (ahem, seminary) where the responsibilities of a pastor toward the artistic and cultural patrimony of the church’s fabric are discussed even cursorily?

    Just in terms of the cura animarum or care of souls, how is authorising a travesty such as this pathetic betise even remotely helpful to the piety of the faithful or the proclamation of the Gospel?

    This kind of nonsense should be denounced for what it is. No wonder the churches in Ireland are being emptied. What reasonable soul could stand by and tolerate such blithering idiocy – then be asked in a dunning sermon to pay for such brutality?

    Do these wreckovators think they are immortalising themselves by such degradation? History will look upon the generation that undid the stunning artistry of the beautiful churches of the nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries and will laugh it to scorn.

    Puts one in mind of Shelley’s Ozymandias:

    “Two vast trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert ….

    and on the pedestal of the statue were inscribed the words:

    “My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings,

    Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

    Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare

    The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

    According to Vatican II, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy Sacrosanctum concilium ch. 7.122:

    “The fine arts are very rightly reckoned among the most noble expressions of human creativity – and especially religious art, together with its highest form, namely the art of worship. By their nature, they are oriented to the infinite divine beauty, which is in some way to be expressed through works done by human beings. Insofar as their only purpose is to do as much as possible to turn human minds and hearts towards a right relationship with God, they are thought of as God’s, and as praising him, extending his glory.”

    How is lowering the Sacred Heart to the floor so that worshippers have to look down on Him, instead of the other way round, “do[ing] as much as possible to turn himan minds and hearts towards a right relationship with God?” Think again, whoever dethroned the Sacred Heart from His proper shrine! Think again!

    Now, mark the next line: “Thus the Church has always been the friend of the fine arts.” [122] Is this true in Ireland today? Scroll back, O Reader, over the works and pomps captured in photographs and displayed for the scrutiny of all on this thread. Is the Church the friend of the arts in Drumaroad, Killavullen, St Saviour’s Dublin, Armagh? And who can forget the scheme to set loose the ball and crane in the sanctuary of St Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh? Friend of the fine arts, is it? With friends like these, enemies become superfluous.

    Read on:
    [122] “It [the Church] has never ceased to seek after the noble service they provide and to train artists and craftspeople.” Is any of this happening in Ireland?

    How about this line? [122] “In permitting the alterations in material, design or decoration which have come as a result of the advance of artistic technique through the course of time, the church has been especially careful to see that sacral furnishings contribute to teh decorum of worship by being dignified and beautiful.” Do you suppose this means deposing the Sacred Heart and flanking Him with spider plants and a portrait of the reigning ppontiff just to let Him know who’s in charge, lest He forget?

    Get this line:
    [124] “… Bishops should see that works done by artists which clash with faith, and with the religious attitude appropriate to Christianity, and which are offensive to a true religious sense, be kept well and truly out of the house of God and out of other places of worship – whether this is because of the decadence of the forms, or because the art is below standard, mediocre and pretentious.”

    “All artists and craftspeople, who, led by their creativity, want to give service to God’s glory in the church, should always remember that they are dealing with a kind of worshiping imitation of God the creator, as well as with works of art set aside for catholic worship, for the spiritual growth of believers, and for their devotion and religious formation.” [127]

    And finally,
    [129] “While they are doing their studies in philosophy and theology, clerics should also be trained in the history of the art of worship and its development, together with the sound principles on which works of worship should be based. They will thus appreciate and preserve the hallowed monuments of the church, and be able to give suitable advice to artists and craftspeople as they bring their works into being.”

    Instead, the Church in some quarters is now afflicted with monstrosities of elaborate pastiche and other atrocities of the most outrageous kind, a clergy devoid of taste and sense, not to mention learning, and a cadre of ill-prepared artisans only too eager to leave behind monuments to extravangant decadence. O tempora! O mores!

    #768824
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    To complete the views of the sanctuary of the church of the Holy Cross, Charleville, Co. Cork, here is a picture of the main window depicting the apotheosis of the Cross:

    #768825
    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    To complete the views of the sanctuary of the church of the Holy Cross, Charleville, Co. Cork, here is a picture of the main window depicting the apotheosis of the Cross:

    Ave Crux, spes unica!

    I’d like to see a close-up of that apotheosis of the Holy Cross. The window looks magnificent even from a distance.

    Is there any accountability for stewardship of ecclesiastical buildings in Cork or the rest of Ireland?

    It is a disgrace to let a sumptuous church such as this fall to ruin.

    is there no -get-up-and-go left in the faithful there? Why is such a beautiful church allowed to fall down about itself?

    #768826
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    @Rhabanus wrote:

    Praxiteles,

    Whilst the world awaits the Liturgical Testament of bq, you and others concerned about the relationship between the earthly and the cosmic liturgy, with particular reference to architecture, may be interested in the work of a scholar, David Clayton, who is currently addressing the issue of liturgical architecture from a variety of interesting perspectives, including number. He is fully conversant with St Augustine’s understanding of the symbolism of numbers. Explore Clayton’s forthcoming article in Second Spring:

    http://www.secondspring.co.uk/articles/clayton2.htm.

    A pleasure to read such well-articulated insights.

    In complete agreement, Rhabanus.

    #768827
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The church of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, Charleville, Co. Cork

    Much of the glass comes from the Clarke studio and was installed between 1902 and 1920.

    The Transept windows feature the Coronation of Our Lady and the Resurrection:

    #768828
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Church of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, Charleville, Co. Cork

    Rhabanus!

    Here is a picture of the famous chancel window in Charleville. Top range is Christ in his gloriy; second range angels with thuribles incensing the the Corss, in lower range the angles and the saints with the Archangel Micahel in the central foreground.

    #768829
    Fearg
    Participant

    North Cathedral Cork..

    Some Images of the current interior:

    [ATTACH]3265[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH]3266[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH]3267[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH]3268[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH]3269[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH]3270[/ATTACH]

    #768830
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Cathedral of St. Mary and St.Anne’s, Cork

    Here is a link to the party guff preceding the gutting of the Cathedral:

    http://corkandross.org/jsp/newsandevents/newsdisplay.jsp?newsID=174

    #768831
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The Cathedral of St. Mary and St. Anne’s, Cork

    The first photograph shows the interior of the Cathedral in late 19th/early 20th century. Note the position of the pulpit on the right hand side fot he main aisle. To-day it is atomized and dumped against a wall. From a previous posting, you can judge the quality of the craftsmanship.

    The second picture shows the interior of the Cathedral following the completion of the new chancel built in the late 1950s.

    #768832
    Rhabanus
    Participant
    Praxiteles wrote:
    Church of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross, Charleville, Co. Cork

    Rhabanus!

    Here is a picture of the famous chancel window in Charleville. Top range is Christ in his gloriy]

    Thanks, Praxiteles!

    Note the differentiation among the choirs of angels signified by the colour of their wings. Those with red wings are the Seraphim, the angels of the highest order or choir. Those with the blue wings are the Cherubim and they are of the second choir. And so forth.

    The window is exquisite! Something substantial to meditate upon during the ‘sermon’ or the ‘homily’ or ‘the thought for the day’ or whatever ill-prepared palaver is on offer in the bawling tub. We’ve all heard it before: “Let me tell you a wee story about x, y, or z.” Some days it pays to leave the hearing aids (deaf-aids) at home.

    Why has this remarkable church been left to fall down? Doesn’t anyone besides Praxiteles see the value in preserving this stunning gem? Where is the accountability?

    #768833
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Rhabanus!

    I thought you might like to puruse this link:

    http://honan.ucc.ie/

Viewing 20 posts - 1,601 through 1,620 (of 7,927 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.