reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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On a completely different subject; Bells
I do not know how evident the absence of bells is in Irish churches and the almost total absence of a bell ringing tradition. Where good quality bells were installed, these have frequently been ruined by the application of cheap automatic clappers rather than automated bell-swings. The link below will take you to one of the best bellfoundries in Germany: Perner of Passau
The following links will give you an idea of how bells should sound:
Erfurt (Germany):
http://www.erfurt-guide.de/erfurts_big_bell.htm
Cologne Cathedral (Germany)
http://www.koelner-dom.de/domglocken.html?&L=1
Freiburg Cathedral (Germany)
– scroll down to “Hoerbeispiel”:
http://dompfarrei-freiburg.de/process.php?nav=muenster&subnav=glocken
Re: Post 1299 and the Augustinians in Galway.
At least the altar rails are still there. It is reversible… ultimately. What does the new table look like. You can’t see it in the virtual tour.
More Bells:
(hit the bell-icon under the description to hear the peal in each case)
The 18 bell peal of the Cathedral of the Asumption of Our Lady into Heaven in Eichstaett made from the 14th. century to 1957:
http://home.arcor.de/armrein/Eichstaett_Dom.htm
The peal in the South tower containing two bells cast in 1265 and in 1299
http://home.arcor.de/armrein/Eichstaett_Dom.htm
The Cathedral in Regensburg
http://home.arcor.de/armrein/Regensburg_Dom.htm
The Basilica of St. Ulrich and St Afra in Augsburg containing the Benedict bell cast in 1280:
More Bells:
The Church of ST. Anthony in Regensburg:
http://home.arcor.de/armrein/Regensburg_Anton.htm
St Michael’s am Keilberg in Regensburg
http://home.arcor.de/armrein/Regensburg_Keilberg.htm
St. Paul’s am Konigswiesen in Regensburg
http://home.arcor.de/armrein/Regensburg_Paul.htm
St. George’s Pruefining in Regensburg
http://home.arcor.de/armrein/Regensburg_Georg.htm
St. Joesph’s Ziegersdorf in Regensburg
http://home.arcor.de/armrein/Regensburg_Ziegetsdorf.htm
Holy Trinity Amberg
http://home.arcor.de/armrein/Amberg_Dreifaltigkeit.htm
The WIlten Basilica in Innsbruck (Austria)
http://home.arcor.de/armrein/Innsbruck_Wilten.htmThe Abbey Church of Sts Theodore and Alexander at Ottobeuren
The following link contains a recording of the bells of the Archabbey of St. Ottilien, Augsburg. It is interesting for the peal is still rung according to the tradition of Cluny. Bells were rung not together, but after each other. This was the method of bell ringing in the great medieval churches. In St. Ottilien, this peal is rung only five times in the year (though perhaps six times this year): Christmas, Epiphany, Easter, Penetcost, and the feast of the Sacred Heart. The full peal takes 22 minutes to complete.
(hit the red KLUNIAZENSERLAUTEN for the recording)
http://www.erzabtei.de/html/Jahrbuch/1999/Glocken/kluni.html
More about the bell peal in St. Ottilien:
http://www.erzabtei.de/html/Jahrbuch/1999/Glocken/Glocken.html
Some pictures of the Abbey Church
http://www.erzabtei.de/html/Bilder/Serien/Kirche/kirche.html
Under “Aktuelles” is a link to the sung offices of monastery:
http://www.erzabtei.de/html/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Ottilien_Archabbey
@Praxiteles wrote:
On a completely different subject]http://www.glocke.com/frameset.htm[/url]
Having spent nine years in Limerick City, I can say that both St Mary’s Cathedral and the Redemptorist church have fine sets of bells. Both churches share the same team of bell ringers. I do believe that the St Mary’s webpage features a page dedicated to the bell ringers, but I don’t think there is an audio link. You will have to google to find the exact page.
@Praxiteles wrote:
Back to the Institutio Generalis Romani Missalis !
If we accept that the Institutio Generalis Romani Missalis is the source for normative presecription on the subject of arranging liturgical space, as they call it, and specifically for the disposition of the sacntuary, then how do we explain this?:
To begin with, the outlay is a disaster. No focal point. This is definitely not apt for Catholic worship of any kind. I cannot begin to count the number of contraventions of the IGMR (GIRM). The architect would do well to consult Joseph Ratzinger, The Spirit of the Liturgy (San Francisco CA: Ignatius, 2000), pp.62-91, which deals quite clearly with the disposition and rationale of the architecture of the Christian church.
Ratzinger enunciates the generally accepted principle that the Christian church combines the chief elements of synagogal worship, with its concentration on the divine Word exemplified by the Torah (cf the Christian ambo where the Gospel is proclaimed as the fulfilment and explanation of the Law and the Prophets), and the Temple cult with its focus on the altar (cf. the Christian altar of sacrifice) and the Ark of the Covenant (cf. the tabernacle).
The chapel under consideration offers a hodge-podge of ideological statements each screaming for attention and ultimately distracting and disorienting the worshipper. Too much visual noise and not enough harmonisation.
The architect and Brian Q would do well to consult the design of the papal chapel in Avignon and Rome (Sixtine) for the kind of harmonisation of features that enhances Christian worship.
Incidentally, the tawdry banners displayed grimly on the walls of the depicted chapel, are sorely lacking in taste and pleasing effect. Ornamentation ought to exemplify a certain quality of excellence and would do well to communicate something of the grandeur and majesty of the paschal mystery.
This kind of unremitting iconoclasm leads to liturgical vertigo.
Are there no competent Christian artists who could embellish this chapel with images of Christ, the Blessed Virgin, St John the Baptist, and other saints? Where is the exuberance of the paschal mystery? Everything is flattened right down. No stairs for elevation of anything or anyone; no hierachisation or prioritisation of features; no sense of progression from Word to Sacrament; no verticality drawing the worshippers beyond themselves into the glory of divinisation.
If the earthly liturgy is to be a reflection of the cosmic liturgy in the new and eternal Jerusalem, then St John the Baptist in Drumaroad has a bit farther to go. Would the average visitor, for example, have the faintest notion that the chief act of worship offered within this space is the Sacrifice of the Mass?
Let the knowing reader consult U.M. Lang’s Turning Towards the Lord: Orientation in Liturgical Prayer (San Francisco CA: Ignatius, 2004) and Michael McGuckian’s The Holy Sacrifice of teh Mass: A Search for an Acceptable Notion of Sacrifice (Leominster UK: Gracewing and Chicago IL: HillenbrandBooks, 2005) in addition to Joseph Ratzinger’s The Spirit of the Liturgy San Fancisco CA: Ignatius, 2000).
“It looks like a cat walk” – a spontaneous reaction from someone who was looking over my shoulder at the interior of Drumaroad.
To all you architects out there, please explain how this can possibly be an improvement on what went before – given that this is a church. Does one have to be a theologian or modern liturgist to ‘read’ this conformation? Please explain.
Brianq – over to you.Gentlemen – I was sitting here at home this Sunday morning having a coffee and watching the BBC world TV channel (Asian feed, although programmming is similar in all territories). To my surprise, they had a news feature on St. Colman’s Cathedral and the ongoing controversy re the proposed changes to the altar. They included interviews with the local clergy, representatives of those against the move, and the Irish Times religous correspondent. Anyway, thought it might be of interest to you all.
There you are! It is like the inquisition the tenttacles just reach everywhere! Have got a link to it ?
Armagh Cathedral Prior to 1904: Strangely similar to what someone suggested could have been achieved in the most recent reordering!
http://www.geh.org/ar/strip62/m198715950018.jpg
http://www.geh.org/ar/strip60/m198705340472.jpgKillarney:
http://www.geh.org/ar/strip62/m198715950137.jpgKilkenny:
http://www.geh.org/ar/strip62/m198715950169.jpg
http://www.geh.org/ar/strip62/m198715950170.jpgThanks Fearg for that more than useful link to the BBC ptrogramme. It says it all that the bishop should decide to train the sights on his own flock – and on the best part of it.
This photograph which Fearg has managed to unearth shows what the interior of Armagh Cathedral was like prior to 1904 and is truly most interesting.
Firstly, we have an Altar in the crossing, elevated on three steps, without reredos, and supplied with six very tall candlesticks and a seemingly small Crucifix and no tabernacle. I suspect that this arrangement is probably proportionate to the hight of the arches in the crossing. The present arrangement is not.
Secondly, the throne is on the right (gospel side) of the sanctuary, on steps, but lower than the altar. In front of the throne, and on the floor, a priedieu. The bogusness of the current claims for the so called “antiphonal” arrangement is clear from this photograph: you will notice that the seating in the transepts is arranged to face the sanctuary.
Behind the Altar is the retro choir which is railed off both in front and behind. Nothing survives of the choir stalls.
Behind the retor choir is another (Lady?) altar, with a tabernacle. Nothing survives of this but the reredos. The mensa has been gutted.
This arrangement, in all its major elements, is practically identical with the photographs that I have already posted of Bordeaux Cathedral.
Clearly, a wonderful opportunity was wasted with the last “reordering”. It is a terrible pity that those who were responsible for the lastest in Armagh did not do a bit more (if any) historical research.
The second link looks to be even earlier, notice that the stained glass is not yet installed in the east window and the niches in the reredos are empty.
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@Fearg wrote:
Here is a link to the report:
I have just listened to this BBC link provided by Fearg. The diocesean spokesperson exudes a less than totally reassuring sense. I had to laugh at the mouthfoul of guff pourded aout by him: “The real problem is that we have a 19th. century sanctuary for 21 st. century worship”. ! There is one for – no doubt landed to him by Paddy Jones and repeated in the case of less than well educated Augustinian friars in Galway. Clearly, the Cloyne spokesman has not been keeping up to date with his clerical reading and does not appear to have heard anything of the hermeneutic of continuity.
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