reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

@Sirius wrote:

Let us pray that Bishop Adrian of Cobh and the Elders of FOSCC will reflect on todays Gospel (Mark 7):

‘It was of you hypocrites that Isaiah so rightly prophesied in this passage of scripture: This people honours me only with lip-service, while their hearts are far from me. The worship they offer me is worthless, the doctrines they teach are only human (planning) regulations. You put aside the commandment of God to cling to human(architectural) traditions.’

Sounds like the sort of scriptural gobbet that Martin Luther or John Calvin would have directed at the Roman Church ‘in Babylonish captivity’.

Presumably the church was born in 1965? I remember now. We’d lost the true spirit of worship, the old mass, the nursery of saints, was an organized hypocricy, sterile, rubrical and dead. We know we must now be worshiping in a spirit of truth because the numbers so doing have declined. Real Christians must have, after all, an authentic gnosis, a superior one to the infantile kneeling and mumbled rosaries that stunted the spiritual maturity of our grandparents and theirs’.

They were idoloters, too, these people: That’s why the stautues have to be removed, lest these simpletons get the wrong idea.

I would imagine that destruction and hurtful alterations to the products of a living faith, a faith that has not changed, equals a cleansing.

@Sirius wrote:

Let us pray that Bishop Adrian of Cobh and the Elders of FOSCC will reflect on todays Gospel (Mark 7):

‘It was of you hypocrites that Isaiah so rightly prophesied in this passage of scripture: This people honours me only with lip-service, while their hearts are far from me. The worship they offer me is worthless, the doctrines they teach are only human (planning) regulations. You put aside the commandment of God to cling to human(architectural) traditions.’

I think Sirius taht you are labouring with a somewhat quirky English translation of the Church’s official text of the Bible – the Nova Vulgata. The following is the text in the official Latin

6 At ille respondens, dixit eis : Bene prophetavit Isaias de vobis hypocritis, sicut scriptum est :
Populus hic labiis me honorat,
cor autem eorum longe est a me :
7 in vanum autem me colunt,
docentes doctrinas, et præcepta hominum.
8 Relinquentes enim mandatum Dei, tenetis traditionem hominum,

In asserting what he asserted, Sirius gives us a beautiful example of a Lutheran approach to the Sacred text. Reflecting on that, Praxiteles is remineded of St. Augustine’s famous line on a simimilar topic which we can paraphrase as ; “I could not care twopence about your interpreattions of the Bible, the only thing that interests me is what the Church says”.

Praxiteles resorts to Latin in the same way that a jet fighter spreads radar chaff to evade a SAM missile.

@Praxiteles wrote:

I merely supplied you with the original texts for your contemplation. Nothing more nothing less. It is, I suppose, important that you hear the Gospel preached in the original rather than in a filtered version.

Even in the latin (not the original) text, the missile of truth is still heading remorselessly for your afterburner. It is time to eject!

@Praxiteles wrote:

I merely supplied you with the original texts for your contemplation. Nothing more nothing less. It is, I suppose, important that you hear the Gospel preached in the original rather than in a filtered version.

Let me rephrase that…. “important that you hear the Gospel preached in the Catholic original rather than in a filtered version”. In normal circumstances it would not have been necessary to qualify.

@Sirius wrote:

What happens when you apply your Catholic filter to hypocrisy? Does it somehow become righteousness?

You have got it mixed up again. Read carefully. The Nova Vulgata is the original text. When this is translated, into say English, it is the Nova Vulgata that gets filtered. Not the other way around.

P.S. I do hope you had an opportunity to meditate on the second part of this morning’s Gospel pericope in moment of self-examination!

P.P.S. I must say that all this talk of “righteousness” is not very characteristic of theSouth of Ireland hmmmmm

@Sirius wrote:

Surely the original text of Mark’s Gospel was written in Greek. The various Latin vulgates were later translations.

Are you saying that you do not accept the authority of the English text of Mark’s Gospel which was read to the parishioners of Cobh at mass today?

Let us not get into the question of the accuracy or otherwise of English language translations of the Sacred Page.

Since the Council of Trent, Sirius, the Church has canonized the manuscript tradition of the Vulgate thereby making it authoritative. You would need to check that the English language text used in Cobh today was a text that followed the Vulgate rescension text and included its variants.

Any old fool knows that the Gospel text, as it come down to us, survives in its earliest rescensions in Greek – though it has not been ruled out that an Aramaic text might have pre-existed the Greek text. Be that as it may, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the canon was closed at Trent, the book determined and the Vulgate estalished as the source for the authoritative redation tradition.

@brianq wrote:

Hi Prax,

never too proud to admit when I’m mistaken – indeed Fr Jones was on the committee who prepared the draft text of POW for approval by the Irish Episcopal Commission for the Liturgy. (It was very late when I posted that).

So …… at best he was a co-author, one fourteenth to be exact! There is no way however that one can say that POW is his.

BQ

WHile I do not think that I raised this issue I suppose there is no harm in saying that he is dreary even in small doses!

@Praxiteles wrote:

Back to the Institutio Generalis Romani Missalis !

If we accept that the Institutio Generalis Romani Missalis is the source for normative presecription on the subject of arranging liturgical space, as they call it, and specifically for the disposition of the sacntuary, then how do we explain this?:

For greater convenience it might be better to have the posting on a new page.

Re postings 1254 and 1277 we are still waiting!!