reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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@Chuck E R Law wrote:
I had the impression that The Three Masons (Praxiteles, Sangallo and Gianlorenzo) had modelled themselves on The Three Musketeers at the Siege of La Rochelle, i.e. relying on extravagant (s)wordplay to escape from impossible situations.
Impossible situations??????????????????:confused:
@Chuck E R Law wrote:
I had the impression that The Three Masons (Praxiteles, Sangallo and Gianlorenzo) had modelled themselves on The Three Musketeers at the Siege of La Rochelle, i.e. relying on extravagant (s)wordplay to escape from impossible situations.
Not a bad pun at all, we are improving! But, please do not venture into 17th. century French history. I have the feeling you do have a handle on it and would find it difficult to work out the political combinations of the regency of Queen Mary and the successive ministry of the great Cardinal.
What about the “piece” bit?
Eugene Emmanuele viollet le Duc 1814-1879
Our consideration of Jean Baptiste Lassus must of necessity lead us to Eugene Emmanuele Viollet le Duc (1814-1879). I am posting a short biography:
Born to a well connected Parisian family living in an apartment in the Tuileries, Viollet-le-Duc first studied Renaissance architecture in Italy before returning to France and a lifelong love of Gothic engineering and decoration. His appointment in the 1840s to head the Office of Historic Monuments was the perfect combination of the right man for the right job. What the effects of time had not already degraded, the French revolution nearly destroyed fifty years earlier as the buildings of church and state had become targets of mob violence leaving the great Gothic structures shattered wrecks.
Viollet restored Notre Dame, Hotel de Cluny and other Medieval icons in Paris as well as the cathedrals of Amiens and Saint-Denis, the cities of Avignon and Carcasonne, and numerous city halls and chateaux.
He understood that Gothic architecture derived its beauty from the artful expression of its structure. That the engineering of a building was as beautiful a visual exercise as its decoration . When Louis Sullivan later insisted that “form ever follows function,” he may have been recalling the principles of Viollet-le-Duc.
As he mastered the vocabulary of the Gothic, he utilized new materials of the industrial age in a manner that correlated to Medieval construction. While not authentic to the period, his techniques updated the ethos of Gothic structural expression. Later historians vilified Viollet’s use of machine age building materials and artful rearrangements as a revisionism of historical reality. Today he has become a verb in modern French, as “to Viollet-le-Duc” means to heavily restore an ancient structure.
His political influence during the Second Empire of Napolean III enabled his architectural firm to assume a major role in the reconstruction of Paris. And his family’s friendship with the Empress Eugenie meant that his competition design for the new Opera house nearly won over that of Charles Garnier. While reconstructing the ancient castle of Pierrefonds into a summer retreat for the Emperor, Viollet saw the Second Empire collapse and his firm relegated to restoring provincial city halls. He devoted much of his time to teaching and writing, producing encyclopedias of French architecture and lectures on modern construction that were later found in the libraries of the great architects of the modern movement.
He was awarded a medal by an international jury for his Lausanne Cathedral restoration designs at the 1872 Vienna World Exposition. His retirement to Switzerland developed into a careful study of the Alps, what Viollet-le-Duc considered the perfect structural expression of stone.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eug%C3%A8ne_Viollet-le-Duc
click on image
to enlargeDesign for Mural
Pierrefonds Castle
watercoler on paper
c. 1860
11 x 14 inchesLink to Paris: Building Splendor
Link to Louis Villeminot Biography pageThe following link to the Cathedral of the Assumption in Clermont goves an idea of Viollet le Duc’s work there:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cath%C3%A9drale_Notre-Dame-de-l%27Assomption_de_Clermont-Ferrand
@Praxiteles wrote:
What about the “piece” bit?
There are more things on heaven and earth, Horatio
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.The common or garden meanings of piece are indeed ‘coin’ and ‘room’. But would you insist on translating piece de resistance as ‘the currency of liberated France’ or ‘a room that an estate agent would find difficult to let’?
Piece can mean ‘bit’ or even ‘piece’. For example when your absinthe friend, Armand, wakes up he will probably exclaim “Je suis en pieces!”
or as my friend Bertie says ‘Jaysus, I’m in bits’But what I had in mind when looking at Armand’s curiously tilted photographs was piece in the sense of an amateur theatrical performance.
Incidentally when I read your postings the phrase “c’est forgé de pieces” somehow comes to mind.
Forging ahead with our study of E. Viollet le Duc, here is a link to the Basilica os St Sernin in Toulouse giving an idea of how Viollet le Duc’s restoration looks:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilique_Saint-Sernin
For Irish readers, it has an interesting connection. The building that originally housed the Irish College in Toulouse stands opposite St. Sernin which gave three burial places to the College: one in the Cimtiere des Nobles immediately outside of the Chapel du Saint Esprit, and two others in the floor of the church itself.
Praxiteles does not usually advertise but Stephen Schloeder’s excellent book Architecture in Communion is an important work especially in diagnosing the problems facing post-modernist Catholic Church architecture and could usefully be read by some of those posting on this thread. While Praxiteles does not agree with everything Schloeder has to say, it is clear that Schloeder is aware that there is a theologicl, archictectural and iconographic canon out of which Catholic architecture should procede. This has been one of the points that Praxiteles has been trying to make on this thread. If for no other reason, Schloeder’s book is interesting for its insightful comments on Austin Flannery’s inadequate commentary on the concent of Populus Dei as expounded by the Second Vatican Council in Lumen Gentium. Schloeder is quite correct in saying that all the demotic nonsense about liturgy derives from a misconstruing of this fundamental idea – the last example of which was to be seen in Fr. Danny Murphy’s appaling piece of rubbish presented to the Cloyne HACK and UNANIMOUSLY adopted by that over educated body in its effotrs to wreck Cobh Cathedral.
Architecture in Communion: Implementing the Second Vatican Council Through Liturgy and Architecture (Paperback)
by Steven J. Schloeder “I have undertaken this work because I find many-or rather most-recent Catholic churches to be banal, uninspiring, and frequently even liturgically bizarre [fig. I.1]…” (more)
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Product DetailsPaperback: 267 pages
Publisher: Ignatius Press (April 1998)
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Reviewer: FrKurt Messick “FrKurt Messick” (Bloomington, IN USA) – See all my reviewsSteven Schloeder has written a book in which he attempts to capture what he describes as the ‘true spirit of the Second Vatican Council’ in architectural design for churches. Schloeder identifies difficulties in theology and liturgy that have, in his opinion, translated also in problem architecturally. With regard to modernism, he states, ‘Many prominent Catholic thinkrs have not discerningly separated the wheat from the chaff and have accepted certain secondary issues as primary ones.’ Among these are issues of the Eucharist being a sacrificial meal vs. a communal one, or the difference between the ministerial priesthood and the common priesthood of all being downplayed – these and others are issues that he discusses briefly in theological and historical terms, but quickly develops the way in which architecture shapes and is shaped by such ideas.
Schloeder’s vision for the book is set out in the introduction: ‘Our goal is to enliven the parish community – which is the true Church built of living stones in Christ – with a material church building designed to serve and further the primary vocation to become a community of love, which must mean a people of sacrifice and redemption.’ This is a constant theme throughout the entire text, always present in the spirit of the photographs, drawings, and essays.
Even the structure of the book speaks of an underlying theological bent – three clusters of three chapters. The first three chapters explore issues of history, sociology, theology and liturgy with regard to the modern Catholic church building. The nature of the church is a primary consideration when considering what kind of design and structure its physical enclosure and manifestation should bear.
The second cluster of three chapters look at particular architectural aspects. One chapter examines the needs of the santuary itself, another chapter more broadly at other services and sacramental needs, and the final chapter the wider considerations of the church family and its place in the community. In this later aspect, the church building can grow from being the domus ecclesiae (house church, or home of the church) to being a civitas dei (a city of God).
The final three chapters look at artistic and aesthetic elements, particularly the icon; Schloeder strives to regain the iconographic aspect of the church in the community. The building itself can be a symbol and a work of art, and most certainly should be a sacramental space.
Schloeder is honest about this book not being an answer book – to many of the issues he explores, he has no concrete answers to offer, but rather serves to highlight particular issues for consideration. Indeed, in the creativity of modern architecture, there are often multiple solutions to the same problems.
This book has hundreds of photographs, examples of architecture modern, medieval and ancient, works of art, and outside symbols and examples. It is rather fun, for example, to see a picture of the British House of Commons chamber as an example of similar types of church architecture, then to know that the British HoC is modeled on the older structure in which the Members met in the choir stalls of a chapel.
The writing is crisp and flowing, and fits very well its topic and the surrounding images. This is a good book for all those interested in architecture, church design, liturgy, and the intersection of theology with material arts.
REVIEW BY STAINED GLASS ARTIST OF 90-YEAR OLD FAMILY FIRM, May 22, 1999
Reviewer: A reader
ARCHITECTURE IN COMMUNION gave an excellent insight into the challenges and crises that Catholic church art has faced since the Second Vatican Council. Mr. Schloeder really understands the anguish that many traditional church artisans faced following the aftermath of the Council–when confusion seemed to leave traditional Catholic church arts at a crossroads.An excellent source book for Catholic church design, November 4, 1998
Reviewer: A reader
“Architecture in Communion” is a detailed, yet highly approachable, weaving of theology, liturgy, architectural history, and iconography. Schloeder’s vision for a restoration of beauty and meaning in Catholic church design is both original and solidly rooted in the traditions of the faith.
His central premise is that Catholic church architecture is essentially “sacramental”, that is to say, the material building is meant to be an icon or an image of the spiritual reality of the Church. Drawing upon sources from Scripture, the Church Fathers, architectural history, conciliar documents, canon law, and the Catechism, Schloeder shows us the symbolical language that has traditionally underpinned Catholic church design, and examines each part of the church (nave, sanctuary, altar, ambo, baptistery, etc.) with respect to its function, traditional form, symbolic meaning, and canonical status.The book is very nicely illustrated with over 300 photos and illustrations.
Stephen Schloeder’s book deals with the question of altar rails rather interestingly and cites a number of “reasons” for their removal that could have been cogged from the wonderful piece of “theological” free composition prepared for the HACK by Fr Danny Murphy. It is amazing how great minds think alike – imagine, in rural backwater Cloyne, the same reasons are brought out to rid us of ecclesiastical barriers as in cosmopolitan Milwaukee. Strange that!
Bon jour Chucker Law
I write somes recherches concerning Hoche for you.
Le général Lazare Hoche (1768-1797), commandant en chef l’armée de la Moselle en octobre 1793, est connu comme le” pacificateur” de la Vendée. Ce titre n’est sans doute pas totalement usurpé, mais comme beaucoup de ses collègues, il a commencé par exercer une répression sanglante, notamment dans l’affaire de Quiberon au mois de juin 1795 contre le royalistes débarqués dans cette presqu’île. L’un de ses collègues, le général Humbert, aurait promis la vie sauve aux émigrés, s’ils se rendaient et près de 800 d’entre eux ont effectivement déposé les armes. Hoche affirma ne pas avoir été au courant de cette promesse et, après avoir reçu confirmation du comité de Salut public parisien, il fit procéder à l’exécution des 800 malheureux au lieudit de Brech, près d’Auray. Mais, au contact quotidien de la guerre de Vendée, il se rend compte de la valeur exceptionnelle de ces Vendéens et cherche à informer, sans succès, les autorités parisiennes sur un nécessaire changement de politique. C’est ainsi qu’il écrit : “Il y a dans ses enfants de l’honneur et du courage. La Révolution a eu tort de le méconnaître ; soyez assez justes pour revenir sur des erreurs que, dans les premiers temps, on pouvait répandre en France, afin d’exciter l’enthousiasme ; mais croyez bien que tout ce que j’ai accompli sera inutile si vous continuez le système jusqu’à présent suivi. C’est un pays exceptionnel que la Vendée : il faut donc la laisser se régir avec des lois exceptionnelles, car une guerre pareille, renouvelée dans quelques années perdrait le gouvernement… Inspirez de la confiance aux Vendéens par des mesures même un peu contre-révolutionnaires ; flattez leurs idées religieuses ; faites des concessions à leur fanatisme monarchique et surtout au désir immodéré qu’ils ont tous de ne pas perdre de vue le clocher de leur village…”
Ce sont de tels propos réalistes d’un homme de terrain qui lui ont valu la réputation de pacificateur qu’il devint finalement au fil des événements. Hoche fut affecté par la suite en Allemagne où il mourut le 18 septembre 1797 d’une hémoptysie.
Re E.E. Viollet le Duc, I am nailing up the following concerning his restoration of the Basilica at Vezelay in Burgundy:
Below is an interesting link concerning the bells at Vezelay.
The following link offers a (peculiar) potted history of Vezelay:
http://www.paradoxplace.com/Photo%20Pages/France/Vezelay/Vezelay.htm
@Chuck E R Law wrote:
I had the impression that The Three Masons (Praxiteles, Sangallo and Gianlorenzo) had modelled themselves on The Three Musketeers at the Siege of La Rochelle, i.e. relying on extravagant (s)wordplay to escape from impossible situations.
Chuck etc.
What is your problem? Are one of the ‘Liberals’ of our time who is intollerant of anyone who does not see the world as you do?
You have been fairly regular recently, but you have resticted yourself to personal attack (as above) rather than acutally stating your position. Any chance that you might enlighten us?:)The following is a link to the online index of E.E. Viollet-le-Duc’s important publication Dictionnaire Raisonne de l’Architecture Francaise of 1856. Along with Didron’s Annales Archeologiques, this is an important source for the irish neo gothic revival.
This link brings you to the article on “Cathedrals” in the Dictionnaire Raisonne de l’Architecture Francaise
After a long interval following on the disasters of the Bishop Casey era, it looks as though the diocese of Kerry is embarking on another round of church “re-orderings”. The chosen instrument for this endeavour seems to be Holly Park Studios, Newtownpark Avenue Blackrock, Dublin, an enterprise under the direction of a notable “liturgical” dilettante called Eamon Hedderman. It appears that he has a project in mind for Millstreet church – which apparently he does not know was built by Michael Augustine O’Riordan. It will be interesting to see what this produces. The renaissance of interest in “re-ordering” in Kerry diocese might well explain the interest of Bishop Bill Murphy in the Midleton Oral Hearing of ABP and his beyond-the-call-of-duty attendance at the proceedings on last Ash Wednesday when you would have expected that he might have had more importnat things to attend to in the ruins of Killarney Cathedral.
As was expected, the diligent Trustees of St. Colman’s Cathedral have decided not to pursue a judicial review of ABP recent decision refusing planning permission for the proposed wreckage of the interior of Cobh Cathedral. Another pastoral letter on the subject will be read at all Masses in the diocese of Cloyne over the week-end. Given the mendaciousness of the pastoral letter read last July, it will be interesting to see the gloss put on biting this particular bullet. Perhaps Tom Cavanagh of Fermoy will now devote even more of his time and attention to tidy towns, leave Cobh Cathedral alone, and air brush Cobh from his consciousness.
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