reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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Praxiteles.
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- August 17, 2010 at 10:09 pm #774196
Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Abbey of Sankt Gallen in Switzerland
The abbey church:




Around 613 an Irish monk named Gallus, a disciple and companion of Saint Columbanus, established a hermitage on the site that would become the Abbey. There he lived until his death in 646.
Following Gallus’ death, Charles Martel appointed Othmar as custodian of St Gall’s relics. During the reign of Pepin the Short, in 719, Othmar founded the Carolingian style Abbey of St. Gall, where arts, letters and sciences flourished. Under Abbot Waldo of Reichenau (740–814) the copying of manuscripts was undertaken and a famous library was gathered. Numerous Anglo-Saxon and Irish monks came to copy manuscripts.
From this time until the 10th century, the Abbey flourished. It was home to several famous scholars, including Notker of Liège, Notker the Stammerer, Notker Labeo and Hartker (who developed the Antiphonal liturgical books for the Abbey). During the 9th century a new, larger church was built and the library was expanded. Manuscripts on a wide variety of topics were purchased by the Abbey and copies were made. Over 400 manuscripts from this time have survived and are still in the library today.
The new structures, including the abbey church, were designed in the late Baroque style and constructed between 1755 and 1768.
One of the gret treasures of the library is manuscript 904, Priscian’s Institutiones grammaticae, glossed in Old Irish, which contains the marginal text of the poem written in Irish in 9th century Is acher in gaÃth in-nocht/fu-fúasna fairggae findfolt;/nà ágor réimm mora minn/dond láechraid lainn úa Lothlind [The wind is fierce tonight/it tosses the sea’s white mane/I do not fear the coursing of a quiet sea/by the fierce warriors of Lothlend].
Also contained in the library is [MS 1092] the medieval Plan of Sankt Gall from about 830, the only surviving architectural drawing to survive from the period bewteen late antiquity and the 13th century. The plan was an ideal of what a well-designed and well-supplied monastery should have, as envisioned by one of the synods held at Aachen for the reform of monasticism in the Frankish empire during the early years of emperor Louis the Pious (between 814 and 817).

The Chancel
August 17, 2010 at 10:24 pm #774197Anonymous
InactiveThe contrast between the floor/pews of the main body of the church and the sanctuary is truely magificent.
August 17, 2010 at 10:43 pm #774198apelles
ParticipantFrom Here.
Tom O’Brien Construction Ltd has commenced work on St Mary’s Church in Ballygunner. The work will consist of alterations and restorations to the existing church including extensions to the South and East wings that will increase the seating capacity from 213 to 419. Currently the existing church is too small for many functions due to the fast growing population of the parish.
The church was originally constructed in the 1820’s on the site of the older thatched chapel. An extract from the Parochial History of Waterford and Lismore dated December 1912 stated that “The Church of Ballygunner is cruciform in plan, small in size and plain in style and has always been regarded as a model country churchâ€. Although works have taken place over the years, the facilities needed to be modernised. The Architect, Tritschler Tritschler & Associates will however maintain the integrity of the existing building by minimising demolition works and restoring many of the existing historical features.
Martin Tritschler believes that the proposed works “will provide a modern, comfortable place of worship for the people of the parish of St. Joesph’s, St Benildus and St Mary’s Ballygunner, while at the same time retaining some historical features of the original church.â€
August 17, 2010 at 11:21 pm #774199Praxiteles
Participant@apelles wrote:
From Here.
Tom O’Brien Construction Ltd has commenced work on St Mary’s Church in Ballygunner. The work will consist of alterations and restorations to the existing church including extensions to the South and East wings that will increase the seating capacity from 213 to 419. Currently the existing church is too small for many functions due to the fast growing population of the parish.
The church was originally constructed in the 1820’s on the site of the older thatched chapel. An extract from the Parochial History of Waterford and Lismore dated December 1912 stated that “The Church of Ballygunner is cruciform in plan, small in size and plain in style and has always been regarded as a model country church”. Although works have taken place over the years, the facilities needed to be modernised. The Architect, Tritschler Tritschler & Associates will however maintain the integrity of the existing building by minimising demolition works and restoring many of the existing historical features.
Martin Tritschler believes that the proposed works “will provide a modern, comfortable place of worship for the people of the parish of St. Joesph’s, St Benildus and St Mary’s Ballygunner, while at the same time retaining some historical features of the original church.”
Is this the same church on which ABP refused a smilar plan in 2007? If I am not mistaken, Waterford City Council even obliged by removing the church from the list of protected structures.
The case history is here:
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/221022.htmAugust 17, 2010 at 11:24 pm #774200apelles
ParticipantAnother one here.With links to plans & elevations to view at the foot of the post.
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Project Title:
Church of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saggart, Rathcoole, Co. DublinProposed renovation and improvement works to include: demolition of the existing Sacristy, and its replacement with a new single storey extension (45.9m2) to the south east elevation. Proposed new vehicular entrance, surface car-park with hard and soft landscaping, external works to include 1 no. access ramp, re-pointing and re-roofing and ancillary repair and site works; internal works to include repair and modification works, new glazed side entrance lobby, new gallery over retained timber lobby, stairs to new gallery, ramping for disabled person access, new finishings and floors.
Site address: Church of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saggart, Rathcoole, Co. Dublin.
RPS: Protected Structure (325 & 328 RPS)
325 – Limestone Church, Tower and drinking Trough
328 – Church, stone head crosses, grave slab etc.O.S Map reference: 3388-25
Approx. size of site: 1.4 Acres
Existing Gross Floor Area: Church: 709.05m2, Parochial House: 116m2
Area of demolition works: Sacristy: 23.48m2
Proposed gross floor area of new works: 91.4m2 (new sacristy, new gallery)
Description of Development
1.0 Site Location and Description
The subject site is located to the east of Saggart village centre accessed from Garters Lane, Saggart, Rathcoole, Co. Dublin. Saggart. The village of Saggart, which lies between the villages of Tallaght and Rathcoole is on the road from Tallaght to Blessington or vice versa. Neighbouring to the west are private residential dwellings and to the south and east undeveloped green fields. East of the back-lands is the City West Development and south of the green fields are GAA playing pitches. Opposite the church is the entrance leading to the cemetery in the north of the village as well as individual dwellings and a service station. The Church currently exists on an “L-shaped” site covering approximately 1.4 acres which includes the parochial house in its boundaries with the Greenfield site to the south and east.
The site is accessible via pedestrian gates and a vehicular entrance located north of the site off Garters Lane. Currently no vehicular access or parking is provided on the site. The parochial house has its own vehicular entrance off Garters Lane. The site is covered with tended grass lawns bisected by tarmac footpaths. There are a number of coniferous and deciduous trees on the site. There are further lands surrounding the church and parochial house to the east and south which are believed to be in church ownership.
Work on the construction of the Church of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary commenced in 1844 but consisted mainly of the foundations. Work on the structure began in 1847 and the dedication took place on the 19th of August 1849 by the Archbishop of Dublin. It has a strong presence in the village with a large forecourt and grounds which enhance its setting. The parochial house adjacent was constructed during the same period. It is a cruciform Gothic Revival Church designed by an unknown architect.
Internally the church has many features of interest including a distinctive sex-partite vaulted ceiling with plaster moulded ribs and decorative floral bosses to the nave, transepts and chancel area. Much of this is currently in poor condition. The white marble relief located to the right of the aisle was transferred from the original church on the site.
The building has seen many changes and additions since its inception, most notably in the layout of its footprint. The church appears to have originally been cruciform in plan with a vestry room and a pair of projecting rooms to the south. There is a square plan tower over the entrance. In the late nineteenth century a meeting hall was added and the two small projecting rooms were removed. In the mid-twentieth century the layout of the vestry room was changed.
The changes and additions which have taken place since the churches inception were completed in sympathy to the building in response to its evolving needs. It is hoped that the current proposals will similarly become an integral part of the church’s history.
1.1 Description of Structure
General
The overall composition of the church is freestanding, pointed-gothic, cruciform-plan Roman Catholic Church, c. 1848, set on a South-North axis having a square-plan three stage tower to the north and a chancel to the south with a vestry room to the east of the chancel and a community hall that was added c.1890 to the west of the chancel. To the northern wall of the western transept is a double-pitched projecting chapel. The church nave is composed of four bays with pointed arch window openings, to the gable ends of the transepts, pointed arch window with intersecting tracery. To the chancel is a pointed arch triple lancet window with stained glass. The church is set back from the road within its own grounds bounded by rubble plinth wall to front with wrought-iron railings. To the east of the church is a detached three-bay two-storey presbytery.2.0 Development Plan
Record of Protected Structures: Ref. 325 & 328
Under the current South Dublin County Council Development Plan 2004-2010, the subject area has a zoning:Objective LC:‘To protect, provide for and/or improve Local Centre Facilities’.
Lands east and west of the subject site:
Objective A:‘To protect and/or improve Residential Amenity.’Lands to the south of the subject site
Objective GB: ‘To preserve a “Green Belt” between development areas’.The subject site is located in an Area or Archaeological Potential Ref. 021-034 – Record of Monuments & Places due to a cluster of Recorded Monuments and Protected Structures.
3.0 Proposed Development
SCHEDULE OF WORKS
DEMOLITION
External
D1 Removal of existing single storey Sacristy on south east side of Church.
D2 Removal of existing oil storage at rear of church.Internal
D3 Removal of existing gallery over timber entrance lobby and access stairs.
D4 Removal of existing plywood draft lobby at side entrance.NEW WORKS
External
01 Proposed replacement single storey extension to the south east of the existing structure to contain store room, sacristy and disabled W.C..Landscape
02 Proposed external lighting with hard and soft landscaping.
03 Remove and replace the existing concrete footpath and surface finish around the existing church structure with porous gravel.An Archaeological Report. Preliminary Report is to be prepared as part of the Planning Submission.
Access
04 External dished disabled access located at the north east entrance to the church.
05 External ramp access to Day Chapel located on the south west elevation
06 Proposed access ramp to new single storey sacristy located on the south east side of the church.Roofs
07 Re-slate existing roof using salvaged slates where possible to match existing.
08 Replace lead roof to tower
09 Re-roof external boiler house to match existing slate roof.Rainwater goods
10 Replacement of all rainwater goods with cast iron to match existing.Services
11 Proposed upgrading of existing surface and foul drainage.External Render
12 Remove existing sand and cement pointing and all render to exterior.
13 Re-point external elevations using a hydraulic lime pointing and render to conservation architects recommendations.Internal
Access
14 New glazed internal draught lobby located in transept in lieu of existing plywood enclosure.
15 Alterations to existing entrance lobby where applicable to enable extension of gallery above.
16 Removable ramps to access sacristy and day chapel.Gallery
17 Proposed extension to existing gallery at first floor level over main entrance with new supporting structure and access stairway.Storage
18 Storage area to be provided within new stairway to gallery and on opposite side under gallery.New Shrine
19 Proposed side alter shrine with new floor finish and lighting.Floors
20 Remove existing vinyl floor tiles and replace with new tiled floor covering subject to Asbestos Report.
21 Repair timber floors in tower structure where decayed.
2 Repair alter floor – letter motif and gold mosaics.Windows
23 Retain and repair where applicable stained glass windows throughout the church.Walls
24 Repair works to be carried out on plaster where damaged internally.
25 Internal re-decorating on completion of repair works.Roof
26 Inspections to be carried out on roof timbers and repair works where trusses decayed.
27 Replace existing splices and repair purlins at gables.Services
28 Upgrade existing mechanical & electrical services – main distribution board, power outlets, lighting, fire and intruder alarm, CCTV, sound system, heating, ventilation.Furniture
29 Original Church pews 24No. located in the transcept are to be retained and non-original Church pews located in the Nave are to be replaced. The design of the benches to be replaced will be of similar design to those to be retained.
30 Re-locate altar 300mm back than as existing.
31 Provide new frames to the Stations of the Cross where previously affected by woodworm.
32 Existing Prayer Room to be refurbished and redecorated.4.0 Plans
Plan 1 – Site plan
Plan 2 – Ground floor, gallery
Plan 3– Upper Gallery and room plan
Plan 4– Front and rear elevation
Plan 5 – Elevation and Section A-A
Plan 6 – Elevation and Section B-B.
August 18, 2010 at 12:07 am #774201Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Abbey Church, Sankt Gallen
Some further views of the South aisle and of the organ gallery stairs:

August 18, 2010 at 12:13 am #774202Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Abbey Church, Sankt Gallen
One of the remarkable features of the church is the long series of Roccoco confessionals which extends along the north and south walls. All of them represent scense of penance, repentance, mercy, forgiveness etc – indeed it would have been a catechetical wonder had the mugs respoinsible for the Children f god series and it even worse successor been aware of these.
The forst one here placed in the south aisle depicts weeping St. Peter and the shows the cock crowing after his denial of Christ in the account of the Passion:

August 18, 2010 at 9:38 am #774203Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Abbey ChurchSankt Gallen
South aisle,confessional series
The parable of the Good Shepherd seeking out the lost sheep:


The parable of the Pharisee and the Publican


The parable of the prodigal son

August 18, 2010 at 9:26 pm #774204Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Abbey Church, Sankt Gallen
Confessionals in the south aisle (men’s side)
Zaccheus is called down from the tree by Christ

August 18, 2010 at 9:34 pm #774205Praxiteles
ParticipantAbbey Church, Sankt Gallen
Confessionals on the north side (women’s side)
Mary Magdalen wipes the feet of Christ at the house of Simon the Pharisee


The woman taken in adultery


Christ with the woman at the well of Sicar


The woman sweeping the house in search of the lost drachma

August 18, 2010 at 9:44 pm #774206Praxiteles
ParticipantAbbey Church, Sankt Gallen
The Pulpit
August 18, 2010 at 9:48 pm #774207Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Abbey Church, Sankt Gallen
The dome fresco by Josef Wannenmacher, from Tomerdingen in southern Germany:

The south altar in the choir features a bell brought by Gallus on his seventh-century journey from Ireland, one of the three oldest surviving bells in Europe.
The architect for the present church was Johann Michael Beer von Bildstein.
Among other artists to work on the church the most important of these were:
Christian Wenzinger, sculptor, painter and master
builder from Freiburg in Breisgau;
The sculptors Josef Anton Feuchtmayer and
Franz Anton Dirr, painter Josef Wannenmacher and
brothers Johann and Mathias Gigl, stucco craftsmen
from Wessobrunn.August 18, 2010 at 10:03 pm #774208Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Abbey Church in Sankt Gallen:
The Choir Stalls by with retro panels featuring the life of St benedict:


The choir organ (epistle side) by V. F. Boissand (1758-1760)

Retro prospect of the organ

A short guide here: http://www.gallen-bodensee.ch/pdf_doc/SG_Unesco_en.pdf
August 18, 2010 at 11:10 pm #774209Praxiteles
ParticipantThe Abbey Chruch of St Othmar and St Gallus, Sankt Gallen
The main bell:
Full peal:
August 19, 2010 at 12:41 am #774210johnglas
ParticipantWonderful, sinuous and opulent interiors; an incentive to plainness of life and an inducement to holy poverty? Perhaps not, but then you can’t win them all!
PS All those plain little chairs beside those glorious concave (mahogany?) choir-stalls? A case for the style police – and in Switzerland of all places!
August 19, 2010 at 8:32 am #774211Praxiteles
ParticipantThe wood-work is in wallnut.
Here is the bit about monastic esceticism:
August 19, 2010 at 12:15 pm #774212johnglas
ParticipantPrax: Thanks for the correction (I should have known) – no link shown, however.
I think St Gall had a strong Bangor connection (as a disciple of St Comgall); the so-called Abbey Church is still there, after a fashion. It’s a decent enough 20thC reworking of a 17thC ‘restoration’ of fragments of a 12th/13thC (?)Augustinian priory on the site of St Comgall’s monastery! As you can imagine, there’s not a lot of the monastic ambience left – and it’s low-church CoI.August 19, 2010 at 8:46 pm #774213apelles
ParticipantWouldn’t it be interesting if the Heritage Council got each county to follow this Monaghan example, then combine all the collected information on Ireland’s Churches together to form one unique database. . .Then again, maybe that’s already the long term goal.
County Monaghan Church Inventory and Guide
Terms of reference
Invitation to tender
All tenders must be submitted in writing and marked
County Monaghan Church Survey and addressed to
Senior Executive Officer, Corporate Affairs, Monaghan County Council,
The Glen, Monaghan by 19th March 2010, at 4.30pm.
This project will implement part of the County Monaghan Heritage Plan 2006 –
2010, and jointly funded by Monaghan County Council, the Heritage Council and
supported by the County Monaghan Heritage Forum.
Introduction
The majority of people in Ireland have a religious affiliation, and church buildings
matter to those of all faiths and none. Churches are often the only architect designed
building in small rural communities. Church building has been a major
stimulus to the development of architecture and architectural decoration in
Ireland. The various building techniques and crafts using stone, wood, metal,
paint and glass add to their influence. The portfolio of heritage assets,
represented by churches, has been the focal point for the community for
generations, and more recently has a key role to play in tourism. Churches are
buildings of cultural merit; they are historic places and landmarks as well as
places of public worship. There is value in recording their architecture and
explaining its significance for dissemination among the congregation and more
widely within in the county.
There are 23 civil parishes in Co. Monaghan, which is entirely in the Roman
Catholic Diocese of Clogher. Church of Ireland parishes generally follow the same
pattern. Many smaller religious affiliations also built or maintain places of
worship. Chapels and mausolea have also been built in graveyards. Some have
fallen out of use, or have non-religious current uses. Different figures exist as to
the number of churches in the county. The Heritage Council Ecclesiastical Survey
(incomplete) indicates a figure of about 75 churches in the county. However,
there are 90 churches on the Record of Protected Structures in Co. Monaghan and
in 2006 Monaghan County Council identified a further four churches of
architectural merit. The County Monaghan Graveyards Survey (1998, McMahon
and O’Neil) indicates that there may be as many as 130 churches.
Objective
To create an up-to-date inventory of churches in Monaghan and to raise
awareness of importance of church buildings in the county.
Aims
The aims of the project are:
To identify, map, photograph and record all past or present post-1700
buildings that were originally churches, chapels and mausolea in Co.
Monaghan to NIAH standard.
To determine the current use of the church.
To identify the condition of the buildings utilizing the National Inventory of
Architectural Heritage ‘condition’ criteria.’
To identify and photograph any associated buildings on site.
To identify if a burial ground is attached, and the extent of their historic
area.
To compile text and images for a guide to churches in the county that will
include easily accessible location information.
Outputs of the project are:
Written report and inventory on the Churches of Co. Monaghan
Access database of churches of County Monaghan.
Photographic archive.
Guide to churches in County Monaghan. Monaghan County Council will
arrange design and printing of the guide. The text and photographs will
be provided by the successful contractor for this project. It is intended that
the guide will be ready for distribution by December 2010.
Additional project details
Monaghan County Council has up to date information on about 10 churches,
through applications to the conservation grant scheme or declarations. There will
be no need to repeat surveys in these instances, although the details must be
included in the inventory.
The successful contractor will liaise with representatives from the church and
religious bodies prior to the commencement of the project.
Required outputs
1. Detailed written report including an executive summary and an inventory
of the churches in County Monaghan.
2. Electronic database inventory.
3. Photographic archive: Digital photographs showing elevations of each
church, architectural detail and detail to interior.
4. Text and images for a publication on County Monaghan Churches.
5. Lecture or tour, devised in agreement with the Heritage Officer, to
illustrate the highlights of the survey findings, to take place during Heritage Week
(21st – 29th August)
6. Presentation to a meeting of Monaghan County Council (or the Heritage
Forum), if requested, after the completion of the project.
On completion of the project the following should be provided:
5 hard copies of the project report, including one unbound.
5 electronic copies of the report
Electronic copies of all maps etc. Base maps on Map Info can be provided
by Monaghan County Council to the consultant.
5 CD-ROM containing all digital photographs from the project.
Text and images for the publication.The full PDF
August 19, 2010 at 9:34 pm #774214apelles
Participant@Praxiteles wrote:
Is this the same church on which ABP refused a smilar plan in 2007? If I am not mistaken, Waterford City Council even obliged by removing the church from the list of protected structures.
The case history is here:
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/221022.htmA few insights of interest from that report Praxiteles . .
Five existing stained glass windows are to be removed and relocated elsewhere on the
site. The new location is not known or identified on the plans1.But . .
1 Documentation submitted to the planning authority in support of the removal of the church from the RPS, indicated that they (The stained glass windows) would be used in the glazed sacristy wall. Drawings submitted with the application indicated that this wall will be provided as double glazing, however.
Then..
The removal of the church from the record of protected structures was done against
technical advice and was done after lodgement of the application.And . .
There are suggestions in internal planning authority reports to the possibility that the architect, A.W.N. Pugin,designed the entrance porch.
Similarly, there is reference to the construction of the main
body of the church in the early 19th century rather than the 1870’s as identified in the
NIAH, which date refers to the construction of the entrance porch.
The church was a protected structure until its deletion from the RPS in June 2006,
contrary to technical advice in this regard. Documentation available in relation to the
decision to remove its protected status suggests that the decision was taken to allow the
extension / demolition of the structure to provide additional capacity. It does not appear
that consideration was given as to whether the protection of the structure was warranted
any longer. Notwithstanding comments by the third parties, this report is not the
appropriate forum to examine the process undertaken in removing the structure from the
RPS.August 19, 2010 at 10:03 pm #774215Praxiteles
ParticipantPresumably, if permission for such works was refused in 2007 that refusal still obtains or would be re-iterated in teh event of a further submission to Waterford City Council or to ABP. Has anyone or group of persons thought of doing this?
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