reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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Luzarches, I see you are a student of architecture and are interested in writing a book on the before and after stories. What a great idea. You may be interested to read a book written by a Michael Rose entitled Ugly as Sin. How they changed our churches from sacred spaces to meeting places and how we can change them back again. Published by sophia press. Mostly written about America but has a piece about the Main door of cobh cathedral, Ireland. It would be very interesting to see one written about the churches in ireland. Hopefully, cobh cathedral will NOT be included though!!!!!:rolleyes:
Luzarches has nicely brought the argument back to the central point – the deep void that represents the actual liturgical state of Catholicism.
We must remember that the “liturgical renewal†that followed the Council (but was strictly speaking only tangentially related to it) had been in preparation for many decades before: from elements of the youth movements of 1930s Germany to the rarefied and cliquish “scholarly†meetings in France and Italy in the 1950s. The destruction was planned, but its violence and extent surprised even the planners, I think.
Now that most of the worst vandalism has been done, we are left with a bleak landscape, and I lament the fact that, alas, I see little sign of liturgical revival among the younger clergy. In fact there is almost a complete ignorance of the Catholic conception of the liturgy. It has been exchanged for a Las Vegas conception of the liturgy. But even Las Vegas has much more pizzazz!
Just as the “liturgical movement†worked its revolution slowly over several decades, infecting certain scholarly circles [true scholars like Gamber resisted manfully] and especially seminary professors, and most disastrously, infiltrating the liturgical arm of the Roman Curia (let’s not start the whole Bugnini invective), in the same way, the movement of reforming the reform – to quote Benedict XVI – must begin slowly. The recent appointment to the chair of Liturgy in a certain national seminary in Ireland shows, alas, that it will be another generation before a Catholic liturgical scholar is again let loose on the seminarians there, but the slow process of reforming the reform must begin.
Benedict XVI can give important momentum to this movement, he can’t – and is too wise to try – overturn the past 80 years in a jiffy.
This is why we must be content with saving even some elements of old churches – if it only means leaving the high altar and reredos as a floating compromise. At least such elements will be ready for the restoration! :rolleyes:
By the way, the obvious, I mean OBVIOUS answer in Cobh is to imitate the simple, elegant, common sense example of Holy Name Manchester. If I may juxtapose two images already offered by Prax (#580, 582), one sees at once how utterly beautiful Cobh would be again by the simple removal of the plywood carbuncle that currently pretends to be an altar:
Here is a very interesting historic photograph of the interior of Cobh Cathedral, showing the Requiem Mass celebrated on 22 April 1912 by Bishop Robert Browne for those who died in the sinking of the Titanic. Queenstown was the last port of call of the ill-fated ship.
One looks at this lovely image of sangallo (#605) and one hears the words of J.H. Newman re-echoing as both a guide and a warning:
“I never knew what worship was, as an objective fact, before I entered the Catholic Church.”
A nice (or horrifying) illustration of the loss of the Catholic conception of the liturgy is found in the recent “restoration” of Blessed Sacrament Cathedral in Detroit. Here we see the typical approach to liturgy as “show” – thus, santuray as stage, overillumination, eye-catching back-drops, shiny materials, dias altar. In a word the opposite of “worship as an objective fact”.
See – and be amazed!
If one thinks of that scene from “Planet of the Apes”: the time-travellers discover underground the remains of New York – and there in a transfigured shell of St Patrick’s the clinically dressed survivors worship a retro 1950s A-bomb. I think the new Detroit Cathedral is certainly based on that scene!!
Below, a perfect illustration of the sanctuary as stage approach – does somebody stand in the wings to prompt? Do they sell popcorn during the performance? Do the lights dip and dim for the soliloquies? Is there a balcony scene? Well, this is certainly NOT “worship as an objective factâ€. I don’t know if it constitutes worship in any way, except the mutual adoration of priest and congregation one for the other. “Now we see in a glass darkly…â€
fgordon,
Have you seen this one from the cathedral-basilica of Covington in Kentucky. Has this appeared on the thread before? Apologies if yes. This is a bizarely two-headed scheme (file under pointlessly conservative reorderings): From what I can understand of the literature surrounding this the diocese retained a Vosko-like clone to direct the scheme. When lay opposition mounted to make a defence of the baldachino and stalls the plans were redrawn and a compromise made. Nevertheless, the very beautiful and unusual altar rails and gates perished. But, still, the new high altar is five steps up; how V2 is that?!
This is a strange church altogether. I note on their website that they have an old rite mass every Sunday: A case of liturgical schizophrenia.
This was the Basilica before the wreckage (2003)
Covington Cathedral was begun in 1894 and brought to its present (unsifinished) state in 1915.
The architect was Leon Coquard
This is what happened:
The above is yet another example of liturgy as theatre – certainly, there are theatrical (in the best sense of the word) elements to the sacred liturgy – but it is NOT a show.
In a church that has walls of glass, the simple minded renovator couldn’t overcome the revisionist rubrics he has learned off and keeps repeating everywhere – hence, even here the preternatural over-illumination. It is like the lighting for an experimentalist theatrical performance. It gives the cathedral a bleached, synthetic and anaesthetised feeling.
But, as I said, we must be glad that some of the old elements have survived – ready for the restoration…
😀Re Covington Cathedral:
Has Luzarches noticed the striking schematic similarities of what heppened in this church with what is proposed fro St Colman’s Cathedral? Certainly, the five stepslead to now where. It is specifically to avoid this net result that Cathal O’Neill wants to dig out the Chancel floor in Cobh and hack the Oppenheime mosaic to bits.
Indee, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, Vasko is a bane-
The Cathedral of St. John the Baptist, Norwich
Sir Gilbert Scott (1882) by for the Henry 15th. Duke of Norfolk
Re: Norwich RC Cathedral.
To my best knowledge, the altar visible in the interior view through the Rood was taken away many years ago. It was not contemporaneous with the Pugin brother’s work, not particularly meritorious and in a partially fragmented state anyway. I understand that there are plans afoot to give the cathedral’s interior greater dignity and solemnity.
Re the Cathedral of the Immaculate Concepton of Our Lady, Denver, this is yet another protype for Cobh. Have you noticed the Anglican-style foldings of the altar cloths?
More then the altar folds, I noticed that this little arrangement in Denver has reduced the seating capacity from 1,000 to 800.
@Praxiteles wrote:
More then the altar folds, I noticed that this little arrangement in Denver has reduced the seating capacity from 1,000 to 800.
At last, we’ve come to the bottom of the great period of renewal and reorderings! I don’t know what things are like on the emerald isle but us (practising) left-footers here in Blighty have been in a demographic death spiral. On current projections, there won’t be any observant catholics left by 2040, or thereabouts. So now you see reorderings in the first place are about decreasing capacity in such a way that makes the churches seem as full as they were 20 years ago. It certainly beats effective catechisis.
re the 2040 prognostications I should say that I have never taken any notice of the criteria of Emanuel Tode and the sociology department of the Paris Quatrieme!
@Praxiteles wrote:
re the 2040 prognostications I should say that I have never taken any notice of the criteria of Emanuel Tode and the sociology department of the Paris Quatrieme!
Is that because he’s an pessimist or an optimist?
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