reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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@Fiagai wrote:
These are magnificent buildings but with the decline of the catholic church in Ireland over the last decade who now finances these expensive restorations.
Likely the same poor folks who originally were burdened with the iconoclastic “renovations” in the 70s, 80s, or 90s.
By the way, the Holy Name of Jesus Church in Manchester has nothing to do with Ireland. Hope England has an attentive watchdog on the reorganisation and destruction of Catholic churches in England.
@Praxiteles wrote:
The Holy Name of Jesus, Manchester.
Here we have the High Altar. Miraculoausly, this survived a terrible outburst of iconoclasm which saw the final Jesuit comminity at the Holy Name of Jesus send their extensive collection of relics to the Manchester Crematorium!!
A similar sacrilege was perpetrated by a secular priest at St Aloysius Church, Woodstock Rd, Oxford before the church was committed to the care of the Fathers of the Oratory. He had the entire contents of the reliquary chapel sent to a crematorium. Most of the relics were of the 16th-century martyrs of England and Wales, hence very rare given the mistreatment of their earthly remains after the brutality of hanging, drawing, and quartering.
Now that the Oratorians have St Aloysius, Woodstock Rd, Oxon., relics of other martyrs have been obtained and the reliquary chapel restored to its original use.
@Praxiteles wrote:
On a different subject, can anyone suggest a list a neo byzantine churches in Ireland?
How about St Francis Church in Cork City? According to the literature available at the foyer of the church, St Francis
“was designed in Byzantine style by Jones nd Kelly of Dublin, and built by Hegarty’s of Cork. The style is based on domes resting on square bases and round arches. The nave of St Francis is covered by a dome with a drum and two other domes, with two arched transepts and a half-domed-apse. The aisles are cut off from the nave by round arches. From the outside, the two square flanking towers on either side of the facade are capped by small domes over drums. The beautiful window is divided by six mullions with round arches, carrying a honeycomb of tear-drops or flames. The San Damiano crucifix with spoke to Francis tops the facade. Irish features such as interlacing may be seen in many parts of the church. Stained glass in the church comes from the Harry Clarke studios in Dublin and mosaics are by Prof. Umberto Noni of Rome.”In another section of the leaflet, the following sentence occurs:
“The sanctuary was updated and the altar turned to face the people in line with the ideas of Vatican II during 1070-71. A reconciliation room was opened in 1988.”The leaflet refers to “the ideas of Vatican II” which were never expressed by that sacred council. Perhaps some aggiornamento of the leaflet is in order.
There should be a thread opened on mortuary chapels (in Irish churches) that have been turned into junkrooms and catch-alls. At St Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, caskets are parked along the communion rail outside the mortuary chapel.
The mortuary chapel in St Patrick’s, Cork City has been converted into a bin into which have been cast all manner of benches, carpets, cleaning implements, and rubbish. Utterly disgusting, particularly in view of the mention in the leaflet of the significant and artistic windows that mark the dividing wall of that mortuary chapel.
Has anyone been through St Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, with a feather duster, lately? The stately old church is long overdue for a good dusting and thorough cleaning (apart from the structural problems). The figures on the transepts are blackened with soot and dust. The saints and prophets are croaking out, “Dust me! Dust me! Someone, please, dust me!”
Do the dean and chapter of the cathedral take no pride in their ecclesiastical patrimony? Some of those canonical rochets, by the bye, look a trifle moth-eaten, too.
Little evidence of clerical exertion Cobh-way. That cathedral sure needs a lift.
I don’t know if this was posted before so I’ll just post it again if it was;
Pugin reredos restored at Leeds Cathedral
http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/2008/01/pugin-reredos-restored-at-leeds.html
And some fantastic pics of Leeds C. here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paullew/sets/72157603655443127/
Have any similar Pugin designed reredos survived in Ireland?
Some examples of the Minton tiles from the floor of All Saints at Barton on Irwell (by E W Pugin), near Manchester
@ake wrote:
I don’t know if this was posted before so I’ll just post it again if it was;
Pugin reredos restored at Leeds Cathedral
http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/2008/01/pugin-reredos-restored-at-leeds.html
And some fantastic pics of Leeds C. here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paullew/sets/72157603655443127/
Have any similar Pugin designed reredos survived in Ireland?
I fear not!
@Praxiteles wrote:
All Saints Barton on Irwell
Part of the surviving original fresco work on the south side
Very sad, indeed. What an indictment of a generation! Particularly when one takes into account the limited financial resources enjoyed by Catholics when Pugin first designed and executed the project. Clearly the Celtic Tiger has no interest in the Catholic Faith or even in the cultural patrimony of a people.
A new generation will discover the buried treasure. Let’s hope some of it will last until then.
@Rhabanus wrote:
Very sad, indeed. What an indictment of a generation! Particularly when one takes into account the limited financial resources enjoyed by Catholics when Pugin first designed and executed the project. Clearly the Celtic Tiger has no interest in the Catholic Faith or even in the cultural patrimony of a people.
A new generation will discover the buried treasure. Let’s hope some of it will last until then.
In the case of Cobh, I think there was and is a huge interest, which was backed up by the numerous donations made to the so called ‘Restoration’ but I believe the fault squarely lies with those who spent these funds and still control whatever minute portion is leftover, post the various professional advisers fees etc…:mad:
I would share your feeling that a new generation will and even are discovering the Treasure of St.Colman’s
but the clock is ticking and still no work being done….. are we to approach another Cork Harbour winter with still nothing done…:confused:@samuel j wrote:
In the case of Cobh, I think there was and is a huge interest, which was backed up by the numerous donations made to the so called ‘Restoration’ but I believe the fault squarely lies with those who spent these funds and still control whatever minute portion is leftover, post the various professional advisers fees etc…:mad:
I would share your feeling that a new generation will and even are discovering the Treasure of St.Colman’s
but the clock is ticking and still no work being done….. are we to approach another Cork Harbour winter with still nothing done…:confused:Right on the money, sam j! How those in positions of responsibility can justify, either to themselves or to the donors, the diverting of monies for the restoration of a cathedral to “professional advisers fees etc.” – not to mention exorbitant legal costs – escapes old Rhabanus. Doesn’t canon law protect and uphold “the intention of the donors”? Or have the Irish authorities claimed some kind of medieval exemption to that universal rule? Haven’t heard that Pope Benedict XVI has been distributing indults for that one!
On a more serious note, though, the new generation coming up in Cobh and Cork is quite promising. They are the real treasure of the Church. Thoughtful, articulate, and courageous! A number of them were homeschooled and others of them are reading themselves back into the Catholic Faith. They seem to have drive and determination. And it takes both grit and stamina to withstand the frustrating ordeal of glacial intransigence. But even the Arctic is beginning to break up!
By the way, sam, did you make it to the Fota Island International Conference on Benedict XVI and the Sacred Liturgy? Did you hear the Lassus Singers chant Palestrina’s Missa Papae Marcelli in St Colman’s Cathedral? Apparently clergy and faithful from all over Ireland came to participate in the events. Dubliners and Corkonians distinguished themselves according to sources on the blogosphere!
@Rhabanus wrote:
Right on the money, sam j! How those in positions of responsibility can justify, either to themselves or to the donors, the diverting of monies for the restoration of a cathedral to “professional advisers fees etc.” – not to mention exorbitant legal costs – escapes old Rhabanus. Doesn’t canon law protect and uphold “the intention of the donors”? Or have the Irish authorities claimed some kind of medieval exemption to that universal rule? Haven’t heard that Pope Benedict XVI has been distributing indults for that one!
On a more serious note, though, the new generation coming up in Cobh and Cork is quite promising. They are the real treasure of the Church. Thoughtful, articulate, and courageous! A number of them were homeschooled and others of them are reading themselves back into the Catholic Faith. They seem to have drive and determination. And it takes both grit and stamina to withstand the frustrating ordeal of glacial intransigence. But even the Arctic is beginning to break up!
By the way, sam, did you make it to the Fota Island International Conference on Benedict XVI and the Sacred Liturgy? Did you hear the Lassus Singers chant Palestrina’s Missa Papae Marcelli in St Colman’s Cathedral? Apparently clergy and faithful from all over Ireland came to participate in the events. Dubliners and Corkonians distinguished themselves according to sources on the blogosphere!
Did any of this thread’s readers make it to the Fota International Conference on Benedict XVI and the Sacred Liturgy? Location, as they say, is everything. Few venues in the region of Cork could have eclipsed the Fota Island Sheraton for contemporary elegance and state-of-the-art facilities. Way to go!
@Praxiteles wrote:
I fear not!
Am I to understand this is a Pugin designed reredos?
(St.Peter’s College Chapel, Wexford)
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=images&county=WX®no=15504014
@ake wrote:
Am I to understand this is a Pugin designed reredos?
(St.Peter’s College Chapel, Wexford)
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=images&county=WX®no=15504014
This is indeed a Pugin altar and reredos, and a very significant one. It is one of a small number of his designs for winged altars based on his observations in Central Europe. Its brilliant colours follow the rules of heraldry, as did his flat decorations, and it is thankfully intact. The design closely resembles his later illustration of an altar in his 1841 edition of ‘Contrasts’, as well as an unexecuted design of 1839 for the Lady Altar in St Chad’s Cathedral, Birmingham.
St Peter’s College shelters other Pugin altar treasures, namely, the two rood screen altars from the demolished screen of the chapel. Both are in storage. The one formerly on the north side of the screen has a reliquary of St Aidan set into the front.
Here is the altar from the north side of the demolished rood screen of St Peter’s College Chapel, Wexford, with the reliquary of St Aidan at its centre. The two wooden rood screen altars are the only surviving such by Pugin apart from the two stone ones at the base of the great screen in the St Edmund’s College, Ware, chapel. As such they are of great significance, and one hopes that Irish readers of this thread will make sure that their future is safeguarded.
It’s difficult to understand why there is not a move to reinstate roodscreen and altars; they already have a ‘temporary’ (movable) nave altar and if the two discarded altars are as unique as suggested, then this reinforces the case. With the current vogue for the ‘older use’ of Mass, this would all make perfect sense. If Benedict’s re-reform of the mass takes root, you will suddenly find lots of apologists for destruction becoming advocates of ‘restoration’. Watch this space.
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