reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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Re # 376:
Well Antho, I have provided whatever information I could find re. the important small group of medieval churches in Ireland in continuous Catholic use. Reflecting on them, it strikes me that you have the outlines of a history of approaches to restoration in Ireland. Clearly, A.W.N. Pugin was most influential in Adare with resultant sympathetic results. Ballintobber, seems to have had a complicated restoration history and finally suffered an albeit minor re-ordering that is reversible. Holy Cross and Graiguenamanagh (while architecturally excellently carried out) came on stream late enough to suffer an insensitive liturgical adaptation that takes little or no account of the buildings. Do you think that a fair comment?
The magnificent sedilia in the south wall of the Chancel of A.W.N. Pugin’s masterpiece, St. Giles, Cheadle. The sedilia is arranged in accordance with the usage of the Cathedral of Salisbury: the priest closest the Altar, on his left, and at a lower level, the deacon, and on his left, at a lower level, the subdeacon. To right of the sedilia is a piscina with symbols of water and wine underneath it. the functions of all three orders are alluded tow in the symbols in the pierced quardafoils: the chalice for the priest, the gospel for the deacon, and the cruets for the subdeacon. In case anybody missed the message, benewth the seats, Pugin inscribed “Sacerdos”, “Diaconus” and “Subdiaconus”. The tiles on the floor are by Minton and have miraculously survived. Each step leading to the Altar has an inscription appropriate to its position.
For the purposes of comparison, this is the medieval sedilia in Holy Cross Abbey. The compostion is the same: piscina followed by sedilia in the south wall of the Chancel. This time, however, the sedilia is arranged in accordance with the usage of the Roman Missal: the priest sits in the centre, the deacon on his right and the subdeacon on his left all on the same level.
The sedilia in the south wall of the Honan Chapel in Cork is also in accordance with the usage of the Roman Missal. The piscina is removed from the sedilia.
In an earlier posting, Graham Hickey showed a picture of the Chancel of St. Patrick’s in Dundalk which also has a magnificent sedilia by E.W. Pugin.
Thanks Gianlorenzo for the juxtaposition of the Ringkirche and Ennis/Monaghan Cathedrals in posting #361. It is most illuminating and explains the rather bland and ugly sanctuary of Ennis. Not indeed that Ennis was any great thing before the hammer fell upon it. The altar, if I’m not mistaken, was not of marble, nor even of cane stone. And the Cathedral was never embellished with any particular beauty. Now however, it looks frightfully empty and the similarity to the Ringkirche explains a lot.
As for Monaghan; it, I am sure, was something, once upon a time. I hope Paul Clerkin can load some images of the sanctuary in its former glory – I think he said he had them in posting #311.
I must say, I think the transformation of St Augustine’s (Galway) into an antiphonal Chinese restaurant (Gianlorenzo again in posting #345) just plain silly. Clearly the architect and the cleric who approved it have no sense of the ridiculous. :p :p
@Praxiteles wrote:
Re # 376:
Well Antho, I have provided whatever information I could find re. the important small group of medieval churches in Ireland in continuous Catholic use. Reflecting on them, it strikes me that you have the outlines of a history of approaches to restoration in Ireland. Clearly, A.W.N. Pugin was most influential in Adare with resultant sympathetic results. Ballintobber, seems to have had a complicated restoration history and finally suffered an albeit minor re-ordering that is reversible. Holy Cross and Graiguenamanagh (while architecturally excellently carried out) came on stream late enough to suffer an insensitive liturgical adaptation that takes little or no account of the buildings. Do you think that a fair comment?
Thanks Prax. Most informative as always!
Now that Praxiteles has advanced to the Sedilia, I thought it might be interesting to look at some examples of the ‘old’ and the ‘new’.
New, – or would you have guessed?
Old
And so on..
I dread to think what the iconoclast Cathal O’Neill would put in Cobh if he is given the chance.
As we saw in #50 the current caretakers in Cobh have already started the dismantling of the Sedilia by detaching two of the seats from the screen at the back and replacing one with a dining chair. Though the dining chair is preferable the dross Gianlorenzo has posted above.Here is the Cathedra in Cobh, which is also marked for replacement.
McLenin, do you have a photograph of the Sedilia in Cobh? It is at the other side of the sancturay facing the Cathedra. Cobh, as you would expect, is designed to accomodate the usage of the Roman Missal, with all three seats on the same level, the priest on a bigger seat in the centre with the deacon adn subdeacon at either side. If I recall correctly, on the oak screen above each seat is inscribed in Latin the words “sacerdos”, d”diaconus” and “subdiaconus”, making it perfectly clear that the seats are an integral part of the screens. If I remember correctly, the Cathedral authorities in c. 1995 signed a covenant with the Heritage Council not to remove or interfere with the screens in order to qualify for a grant of
@Gianlorenzo wrote:
:confused: At present the Sedelia has been removed from right hand Sanctuary screen and is now free standing in Sanctuary and a dining chair put in its place.
Can anyone explain who this can happen since the building was listed as a protected structure and is the subject of a Covenant with the Heritage Council
These are the only photos I have as originally posted by Gianlorenzo. You can see in the lower image that all the seats have been detached from the screen and the central one (top pic) has been moved out on to the Sanctuary floor and replaced by the infamous ‘dining chair’.
The West Portal of St. Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, showing the archivolt with series of figures of the Patriarchs and Prophets of the Old Testament, which has been combined with the twelve Apostles depicted on the architrave of the portal. Thus, following the iconography of the Royal Portal at Chartres, the West Portal of Cobh Cathedral combines the Old and New Testaments, thereby indicating the continuity of the worship given to God in both Testaments and its culmination in Christ. Unlike Chartres, Cobh has one row of Patriarchs and Prophets rather than three and does not incorporate any of the angelic hosts so evident in Chartres Portal.
In Cobh, the sequence runs as follows:
R
1.Malachiah
2. Ezechiel * associated with the verse Porta clausa et non aperiet, a reference to Our Lady
3. Isaiah* associated with the verse Ecce virgo concipiet et pariet filium, a reference to Birth of Christ, depicted with the saw by which he died.
4. David
5. Aaron associated with the flowering Rod of Num 17:1-11 a prefiguiring of Our Lady
6. Melchisadeck king and priest of Salem who met Abraham with bread and wine prefiguining the Eucharist (Gen 14:18-24)
7. Noah the flood: Gen 6:14-22; Gen 7,8:1-19; Gen 8: 20-22; Gen 9: 1-19L
1. Abraham depicted with a knife referring to the sacrifice of Isaac in gn 22:1-19- a propotype for the sacrifice of Christ.
2. Moses
3. Job the pype of the suffering Christ.
4. Jonah
5. Jeremiah* the Prophet of the Passion of Christ.
6. Daniel* the lions in background referring to the Book of Daniel Chapter 6.
7. Zachariah* denotes the major Prophets
Below the figures of Patriarch Noah with the ark; and the Priest-King of Salem (Jerusalem) Melchisadeck.
Here is an even better picture to illustrate the balefuls state of the Baptistry in Cobh Cathedral and the evident neglect to which it has been subjected. Since I saw it last summer, one of the marble pillar on the rail has diasappeared. And this is supposed to be listed building and a protected structure. Cork County Council and the Cobh Town Clerk persistently hold that there are no problems about the maintanance of the building.
Re: 376
Dear Anto:
I have just realized that there is another church to add to your list of medieval churches in Catholic use: The Black Abbey in Kilkenny.
5. The Black Abbey, Kilkenny 1225
Built for the Dominicans in 1225 by WIlliam Marshall, Strongbow’s son, the Black Abbey was suppressed in 1543 and converted into a courthouse. It was partially restored in 1778 and certainly functioned as a church from 1814. Further reatoration was effected c. 1850. The stone work is good and the wood work of the ceiling excellent. In the 1970s it underwent a typical “restoration” which saw the stripping of the walls alla Killarney, the demolition of the liturgical furnishings ofthe 19th. century, the abandonment of the Chancel and the placing of the Altar in the nave. Much of this work liturgical work pays little attention to the lines or original spacial disposition of the building. Some highly dubious galss has been installed in the Chancel and a scratching post tabernacle installed.
The Black Abbey as engraved by S. Hooper in 1793 followed by a photograph of 1905:
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