reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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Praxiteles.
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- December 7, 2007 at 11:01 am #770874
Praxiteles
Participant@Rhabanus wrote:
Thank heaven for sensible and learned clerics like him!
That Rood screen must have been impressive.
Quite so!!
December 7, 2007 at 6:03 pm #770875Praxiteles
ParticipantHere we have the interior of Ballina Cathedral functioning in a most appalling travesty of the rubrics of the Roman Rite:
December 7, 2007 at 8:03 pm #770876Praxiteles
ParticipantSome historical material:
St. Peter’s Basilica, the Coronation of Pope Pius XII, 13 March 1939:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrs0w0cilCc&feature=related
St. peter’s, the Coronation of Pope John XXIII, October 1958
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTPG613HizE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knBzW1Ur63g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEk4D5cnNls&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3BOdx2N-og&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wz8W96JrEM&feature=related
St Peter’s, the coronation of Paul VI,
December 7, 2007 at 11:36 pm #770877Praxiteles
ParticipantThe family of Saint Anne, Flemish c. 1490
December 7, 2007 at 11:41 pm #770878Praxiteles
ParticipantTo-day marks the opening of the Lourdes Jubilee year to commemorate the 150 anniversary of the apparitions there in 1858.
The first photograph shows the interior of the upper basilica shortly after its consecration in 1867.
The second shows the High Altar as it is to-day.
The third shows the consecration as depicted in the glass of the upper basilica.
An external lateral view of the Basilica.
An external view of the principal facade.
December 8, 2007 at 11:43 am #770879ake
Participant@Praxiteles wrote:
To-day marks the opening of the Lourdes Jubilee year to commemorate the 150 anniversary of the apparitions there in 1858.
The first photograph shows the interior of the upper basilica shortly after its consecration in 1867.
The second shows the High Altar as it is to-day.
The third shows the consecration as depicted in the glass of the upper basilica.
An external lateral view of the Basilica.
An external view of the principal facade.
beautiful.The exterior is very nice. I would have expected the hgh altar to be richer though.
December 8, 2007 at 5:30 pm #770880Praxiteles
Participant@ake wrote:
beautiful.The exterior is very nice. I would have expected the hgh altar to be richer though.
This is true about the High Altar but I expect that in 1867 no one had the slightest imagination as what Lourdes was going to become.
The Basilica there has recently been restored and to the highest standard – an example taht could be emulated by not a few visitors from Ireland when “restoring” their catherdarls.
December 8, 2007 at 6:58 pm #770881Fearg
Participant@Praxiteles wrote:
This is true about the High Altar but I expect that in 1867 no one had the slightest imagination as what Lourdes was going to become.
The Basilica there has recently been restored and to the highest standard – an example taht could be emulated by not a few visitors from Ireland when “restoring” their catherdarls.
They also have a horrible underground bunker trading as a basilica though?
December 8, 2007 at 10:34 pm #770882Praxiteles
ParticipantAn interesting event at Westminster Cathedral on 27 November 2007 – Requiem Mass celebrated according tot he old rite by the Auxiliary Bishop of Westminster (who uses the faldstool rather than the throne since he does not have immediate jurisdiction).
The event allows us to see how the structural dispositions of all of these churches are intended to be used -note that the temporary altar has been removed, thereby affording a clear vie of the High Altar.
The event also shows us just how far out of touch the Irish liturgical “establishment” really is. Remember the famous guff line bleated to the BBC about Cobh Cathedral – the real problmem we have have here is that we have a 19th century sanctuary for a 21st century liturgy. Given the way the wind is blowing, Praxiteles would not be at all surprised that we were not looking at 21st century liturgy here in Westminster Cathedral.
Cleraly, the English hierarchy is also ahead of (at least the provincial) Irish hierarchy once again.
PS: The music was de Victoria’s Requiem written for the funeral of the Empress Maria.
December 8, 2007 at 11:33 pm #770883Praxiteles
ParticipantAnd a litte seasonal taste of Tomas Luis de Victoria’s wonderful music:
http://bach.nau.edu/Victoria/OMagnum.html
http://bach.nau.edu/Victoria/OVos.html
http://bach.nau.edu/Victoria/OSacrum.html
and that of some of his near contempories:
http://bach.nau.edu/Byrd/AveVerum.html
December 8, 2007 at 11:56 pm #770884Praxiteles
ParticipantANd as a matte of interest, when was the last time the proper anthiphons for the period from the 17-23 December last hear in an Irish Cathedral?
Here they are, the famous “O” antiphons, for those who have not heard them:
December 9, 2007 at 9:25 am #770885Praxiteles
ParticipantHere we have some liturgical reasing for the Cloyne HACK over the festive season:
December 9, 2007 at 11:20 pm #770886ake
ParticipantHave you ever seen any critical mention of the vast destruction wrought on churches in the last decades in this or any Catholic newspaper?
December 10, 2007 at 12:19 am #770887Rhabanus
Participant@Praxiteles wrote:
Here we have some liturgical reasing for the Cloyne HACK over the festive season:
Perhaps the Cloyne HACK should be eating crow rather than goose or turkey this Christmas!
Thank you, Prax, for the excellent snaps of the Upper Basilica of Lourdes. The shot from 1876 was stunning. Rhabanus thinks that the current state of the high altar could be improved somewhat. Paraphrasing ake, it seems a bit subdued. A little more eclat wouldn’t harm it.
Must agree with Fearg, that the St Pius X Basilica is a concrete bunker – does nothing to inspire confidence in Rhabanus. On the other hand, the processions on the esplanade are always uplifting. Those spires pointing heavenward against a red sunset stand as an image of the Christian Faith persevering and unwavering against the twilght of the gods.
Thanks, too, for Dr Reid’s trenchant review of the recent Marini oeuvre. Marini’s swan song serves as a useful pendant to Bugnini’s Reform of the Liturgy 1948-1975. Readers can see how politics played (and still play) a pervasive role in the advancement of the liturgical juggernaut. It is about time that the Holy See implemented its ‘hermeneutic of continuity’ before all the ecclesiastical architecture of Ireland is completely flattened out by the ideologues and heirs of Bugnini-Marini – their name is Legion! Time to dissolve the apparatchik.
The “Reform of the Reform,” as envisioned by Benedict XVI, is long overdue. Plenty of young people seem quite interested. Many are aware that their patrimony has been squandered – and they are seeking to reclaim it. Aren’t forty years of decline sufficient reason to begin trying what has worked for centuries? Namely, the liturgy as transmitted and received in fidelity from the Apostles and their disciples. Let the development be organic and faithful to the depositum fidei.
Westminster Cathedral looks magnificent, as usual.
It’s long past time that St Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, celebrated the solemn pontifical rite of Mass according to the usus antiquior or the “extraordinary form.” Quando? Quando? Quando?
Can’t get the YouTube pics as intended. But thanks anyway for the references!
December 10, 2007 at 5:20 pm #770888Praxiteles
ParticipantAnd here we have St. George’s Cathedral, Southwark (London) built by A.W.N. Pugin and considered to be one of his finest works. Unfortunately, it was bombed during the war but restored in the late 1940s and early 1950s only to have been hacked to bits by the liturgical agitators of the 1970s and 1980s who eventually ht on the (much hackneyed) idea of abandoning the chancel and placing an unraised altar at the crossing.
From the photographs on the following likns, it is easy to see how difficult it is to celebrate the Tridentine Rite in this kind of set up – clearly the hacked sanctuary was adapted as best one could to accomodate the Tridentine Rite but, as you can see, it is a foreigner in this setting -which in itself sevres to indicate the underlying theological/intellectual problematic involved in the hacked solution which is basically not Catholic.
The solution here is, not surprisingly, quite close to what was proposed for Cobh Cathedral:
http://www.traditionalcatholic.org.uk/SouthwarkCathedral8Dec07/Photos_3.html#10
December 10, 2007 at 6:35 pm #770889Rhabanus
Participant@Praxiteles wrote:
And here we have St. George’s Cathedral, Southwark (London) built by A.W.N. Pugin and considered to be one of his finest works. Unfortunately, it was bombed during the war but restored in the late 1940s and early 1950s only to have been hacked to bits by the liturgical agitators of the 1970s and 1980s who eventually ht on the (much hackneyed) idea of abandoning the chancel and placing an unraised altar at the crossing.
From the photographs on the following likns, it is easy to see how difficult it is to celebrate the Tridentine Rite in this kind of set up – clearly the hacked sanctuary was adapted as best one could to accomodate the Tridentine Rite but, as you can see, it is a foreigner in this setting -which in itself sevres to indicate the underlying theological/intellectual problematic involved in the hacked solution which is basically not Catholic.
The solution here is, not surprisingly, quite close to what was proposed for Cobh Cathedral:
http://www.traditionalcatholic.org.uk/SouthwarkCathedral8Dec07/Photos_3.html#10
A formerly glorious church cut down to size by the liturgical peddlars. Take us back to Westminster, please.
But let us peek into St Etheldreda’s Ely Place – the oldest Englsih church in Catholic hands. Once the residence of the bishops of Ely (whose patron saint is St Etheldreda of Ely), it was won in an auction for 100 pounds sterling.
Supporting the arches are several of the Forty Martyrs of England and Wales. The east window, though too modern, celebrates the Kingship of Christ. The west window is superior. It depicts the Catholic martyrs of sixteenth-century England.
St Ethelreda’s has long hosted the usus antiquior of the Roman Rite.
December 10, 2007 at 7:49 pm #770890ake
Participant@Praxiteles wrote:
An interesting event at Westminster Cathedral on 27 November 2007 – Requiem Mass celebrated according tot he old rite by the Auxiliary Bishop of Westminster (who uses the faldstool rather than the throne since he does not have immediate jurisdiction).
The event allows us to see how the structural dispositions of all of these churches are intended to be used -note that the temporary altar has been removed, thereby affording a clear vie of the High Altar.
The event also shows us just how far out of touch the Irish liturgical “establishment” really is. Remember the famous guff line bleated to the BBC about Cobh Cathedral – the real problmem we have have here is that we have a 19th century sanctuary for a 21st century liturgy. Given the way the wind is blowing, Praxiteles would not be at all surprised that we were not looking at 21st century liturgy here in Westminster Cathedral.
Cleraly, the English hierarchy is also ahead of (at least the provincial) Irish hierarchy once again.
PS: The music was de Victoria’s Requiem written for the funeral of the Empress Maria.
a beautiful spectacle
December 10, 2007 at 7:50 pm #770891Praxiteles
ParticipantSt Ethelreda’s, Ely Place, London
Here we are!
December 10, 2007 at 8:16 pm #770892Praxiteles
ParticipantAhe the potted history tour:
December 10, 2007 at 10:36 pm #770893Praxiteles
Participant@ake wrote:
Have you ever seen any critical mention of the vast destruction wrought on churches in the last decades in this or any Catholic newspaper?
It would be far too much to expect criticism of what should be cirticized from the Catholic Herald which has been up a remote shunt for years. It is not in any demographic way representative of critical Catholic opinion for it is firmly in the hands of a set of dim old fogies who have not noticed that the social utopia of the 30s just did not inexorably evolve into the promised land.
As for most of the rest, you can forget about those as well. What is much more interesting is the phenomenon of free Catholic newspapers which are independent of the dead hand of ideology and go some way to reflecting what is going on in the Church in an intelligent way.
To be fair, the Irish Catholic was very sympathetic to the FOSCC cause and those running it at the time certainly wriggled as much as they could within the ideological straight-jacket gagging them.
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