reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

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  • #767514
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The Mi

    #767515
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The western Portail of the Prieuré de Saint Fortunat, Charlieu, built about 1090 is the first example in Burgundy of a tympanum depicting the artistic type of Christ seated in glory, surrounded by an aureole supported by two angels.

    This form of depicting Christ antecedes tympana depicting the Last Judgment and is historically associated with the Cluniac reform (see attached image at the end).

    The priory, although founded around 875, became dependant on the abbey of Cluny around 930 and was assigned the rank of priory in 1040. In the mid eleventh century, a new priory church was built by the Abbot, St. Odilion.

    The Northern Portal dates from the mid twelfth century, but repeats and elsborates the earlier, simpler type. At a time of political crisis centred on the question of investiture, pitting the Papacy and the Empire against each other, the message of the reformist portal was perfectly clear: This is the throne of the true Lord, the heavenly Lord.

    [Images from [url]http://en.structurae.de][/url]

    The northern tympanum here depicts Christ seated in glory, blessing and holding the Book of the Gospels, and surrounded by an aureole supported by two angels, and circumscribed by the tetramorphic representations of the four Evangelists

    The architrave depicts the twelve Aposles enthroned in glory.

    The tympanum of the window depicts the biblical type of sacrifice: the Last Supper prefigured in the sacrifice of the Temple.

    #767516
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The link below shows the Cluniac prototype for the tympanum depicting Christ enthroned in Glory, in the Priory of Charlieu dating from 1099:

    The image below shows C.W. Harrison’s variation of it on the Wstern tympanum in Cobh, executed in 1898:

    #767517
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Beautiful images posted.

    Can I ask are the various people’s objections to the striking modernist churches featured their (apparent?) lack of conformity with strict liturgical requirements, or the fact they’re not frilly gothic wedding cakes?

    #767518
    anto
    Participant

    Is that an “apparent” dislike of Gothic Graham?

    #767519
    GrahamH
    Participant

    🙂 Quite the opposite in fact – just that many of the ‘alternative’ churches featured are fine pieces of architecture.
    Hence is it the dislike of the modern that is putting people here off, or is it these buildings’ ”apparent’ (in that I do not know) disregard for liturgical convention?

    #767520
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The problem with some of the modern schools is not so much that they do not give us nice gothic frills or that they are not liturgically correct, but because they are unable to articulate realities which for them, by definition, do not exist, or are too inhumane to be able to empathise with man or his condition. Rudolf Schwarz, while producing technically perfect peices, exhibits nothing of the “humanitas” of the portal of Charlieu and, as such, cannot be considered as a congruent mise-en-scene for the liturgical “commemoration” of Christ’s greatest act of “humanitas”.

    #767521
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Is that not up to the individual to decide?
    The much derided breeze block Firhouse church in south Dublin is much loved by its parishioners.

    #767522
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The following pictures show a number of portals with red doors. This is a clue to the ancient use of church portals throughout western Europe and provides the wider context in which portals such as Moissac, Charlieu, and those of the great Cathedrals should be seen. While the portal obviously provides access and egress from the church, its more important social function was that of a locus for the administration of both ecclesiastical and civil justice. Basically, these great portals were the courts of justice and were designated as such by the painiting of their doors in red. The colour was especially connected with royal justice. Also, the portals of the churches served as places in which oaths were administered, contracts perfected and all sorts of other legal acts, such as the swearing of fealty, took place. Marriage was formally contracted in the portico of the church before the bride and groom were lead into the church. Weights and measures were publicly promulgated and exhibited in the church porticos. This function had an influence on the plastic decoration of the portals and on the choice of theme to be depicted. Usually, the dominant tympan will depict Christ in his Divine Majesty, source of all justice. The Last Judgment is a later theme focusing on the rewads of good and evil. In the porico itself, it was not unusual to find figures such as Solomon, the Old Testament exemplification of Justice or St. John the Baptist. In the north Italian Romanesque, as at Piacenza, lions are characteristically found supporting the columns of the portico. Here again is a reference to Solomon -whose throne was held up by lions. Indeed, in many medieval contracts and legal documents it is not infrequent to find that such were done “ad portas”, “ante portam”, “in gallilea”, “in atrio”. In northern Italy the expression “inter duos leones” frequently occurs. As at Moissac, the prophet Isaiah features in medieval church porticos alluding to his prophacy of the eschatological kingdom of peace, justice and righteousness. In the case of Cobh, the tympan is directly influenced by the Royal Portal at Chartres while the figures in the portico depict St. John the Baptist, another precursor of the eschatological kingdom of peace and justice but the iconographic composition fails somewhat by the introduction of the figure of St. Joseph, unless he is seen as the biblical faithful stewart placed over the household. In conservation terms, even elements such as the colours of paint on doors can have an important significance. Unfortunately, at Moissac the door colour has vanished since the time of the French Revolution and has not been recovered.

    The Abbatiale de St. Gilles-du-Gard dating from the second quarter of the twelfth century which, after almost a thousand years conservs its tradition of painting the abbey doors red :

    Paroissiale de St Armel in Ploermel, Brittany, depicting the the triumph of virtue over vice.

    Chapelle de Notre Dame de Kernascléden, Brittany: portail:

    Le Faouet, Brittany, Chapelle de St. Fiacre (an Irish man) west portail:

    Le Faouet, Brittany, Chapelle de Sainte Barbre, west portail:

    Le Guerno, Brittany, Paroissiale de Notre Dame:

    The Portico of the Cathedral of Piacenza, built last half of the twelfth cenntury and in the first half of the thirteenth, supported by the pair of lions so characteristic of the Lombard Romanesque:

    #767523
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Re. #308: in what amounts to an ecclesial statement, the answer to that question must be no.

    #767524
    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    St Macartan’s Cathedral, Monaghan
    Arguably McCarthy’s masterwork….

    Ruined, the only trace of original stonework is a small stretch of railing at the old baptistry. The bishop rode roughshod over the people, and indeed a few years ago, I received an email from his secretary about a throw-away comment on the predesscor of these boards. I think Bishop Joseph Duffy is a tad touchy about it, and he has written several small booklets on the re-ordering to get his view across. None of these booklets have “before” pictiures – I have but I need to scan them first. As a kid I was entranced by the mass of victorian ironwork dividing the four side altars from the high altar, the massive ornate canopy over the Cathedra and the fabulous pulpit a third the way down the nave. All gone. Even the wooden confessionals which were ten-a-penny victorian were sadly removed. There was also some fabulous cast iron radiator covers to the rear of the church. Everything ruined.

    By bringing the altar out into the crossing, they actually reduced the capacity of the church considerably – I must scan a plan and show the old versus the new.

    The reordering completely detracts from the verticiality of the space and the forest of columns in the area of the crossing. It does not draw the eye to the fabulous hammerbeam roof nor to the apse when standing at the western entrances. It is non-descript. And it seems that since I was last there, they have added to the carpet collection in the apse. Originally it was one, which was acceptable because it attracted the eye to the end, now it looks like a rural hotel lobby. Are tapestrys the new stained glass?

    The only thing they did right, was restore the organ, a magnificently overbearing and pompous instrument

    #767525
    fgordon
    Participant

    Re. above comments of P. Clerkin on Monaghan Cathedral. I remember my first visit to that noble building – from outside it has a French look, I would have thought. Indeed, its external appearence greatly impressed me – not heavy, not brooding as some gothic buidlings can be. This structure has a lightness of composition.

    On entering the building I was (as it has been) gutted. What a hatchet job! I can imagine the Lord Bishop of Clogher is touchy on the issue. He realises now that his only enduring legacy to the diocese is a tasteless attack on its central gem. And he must realise that any pretentions he had to a favourable commentary in the history books (he is himself an historian, I think) for his “imaginative and senitive adaption of the Cathedral to the demands of the post-conciliar Liturgy”, as the jargon goes, is in tatters on both counts. First, it ain’t imaginative and it certainly ain’t sensitive; and second, the whole “demands of the post-Conciliar Liturgy” line is utter bunkum – and demonstrably so, if one has ever read Sacrosanctum concilium and later documents. [Bishop Magee take note].

    Now, one must say immediately – partly too in response to G. Hickey’s earlier observations – that a thing does not have to be gothic to be beautiful. Indeed the quality of some of the individual pieces in Monaghan Cathedral is evident to see. But the idea that these utterly incongruous elements, alien to the setting and in some cases to the economy of Christian worship, can simply be hurled into an already very carefully and beautifully elaborated unity of art and archetecture is folly. Not to mention the necessary destruction of the already present – and vastly more appropriate, vastly more beautiful – elements, the condescending contempt for the wishes of the people (who are paying for it all, by the way), the irresponsible squandering of a precious spiritual and cultural heritage etc. This is the power of a mania; and the reckless iconoclasm that convulsed Ireland in those years can only be regarded as a mania. Was it Chesterton who said a mania is irresistable when it holds force and inexplicable afterwards?

    Now -PHOTOS, PHOTOS – let’s have them P. Clerkin! From that first moment I entered Monaghan Cathedral I have wanted to see images of it in its pristine condition. But “Sensitive Joe” seems to have purged every evidence of the former charms of the buidling he bullied into his own image and likeness. Get scanning at once!

    #767526
    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Everytime I see the altar area, now I think of a 1980s Eurovision stage – just remove the altar and lecture and you have a perfect place for bad euro-pop…

    #767527
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Yes, it is just too too awful. Duffy has pretentions to sophistication and flaunts a puddle deep knowledge of European, especially French, culture. His influence on the Art and Architecture Committee of the Irish Episcopal Conference over the years has been baleful and motivated by a totally uncritical acceptance of the modern without any reflection on the philosophical difficulties underlying its theory. Unfortunately, much of the iconoclasm that has gone on in the Catholic Church for the past twenty five years fetch from Duffy its first head and spring. He is a true scion of the Isaurian dynasty. I am not at all surprised that you should have been contacted by the mind police in the Clogher diocesan offices. The Cloyne counterparts are currently busily trying to stifle any opposition to O’Neill’s proposed vandalism in Cobh and make no apologies for gagging anyone who might have a valid point to make.

    #767528
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Re #311 is this the original colour scheme for the organ pipes or is a recent innovation?

    #767529
    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Can one of the Cobh contingent contact me – I’d like to run a piece in the news section – using their pictures and text. pclerkin@irish-architecture.com

    #767530
    fgordon
    Participant

    Looking anew at the external picture of Monaghan Cathedral (in #311 above) – the only beautiful aspect that remains – it is unmistakably McCarthy, isn’t it? Indeed take away the two side aisles and one has almost a carbon copy of Maynooth College Chapel, the inside of which was mercifully spared the ignominious stripping that Monaghan was forced to endured.

    In earlier mentions of Ledwith’s tinkering with St Mary’s Square, no-one mentioned his belated and deeply regrettable conversion of the Lady Chapel. If I am not mistaken, during his tenure the altar (of very fine marble) was detached from its surroundings and ludicrously propped up on a cheap dais in the middle of that exquisite little chapel, destroying in one sweep the simple harmony of the piece and obscuring the mosaic floor with cheap carpet. To add insult to injury the remaining space was filled with unspeakably vulgar pews, thus losing that quite delicate illusion of space and replacing it with claustrophobic fussiness. Ruined.

    I quite agree with P. Clerkin – the recent addition of two or three further tapestries behind the altar in Monaghan is a retrograde step. It is probably to compensate for the coldness of the new sanctuary – no doubt sponsored by Roadstone. Or perhaps the Lord Bishop just felt a little isolated up there on his horse-shoe throne (fine if you’re in San Clemente in Rome, but just silly in Monaghan) and hoped the walls might compensate for the lack of colour elsewhere. The old sanctuary, I’m sure, would have provided the “warmth” so lacking in the cold adaptation. We await those pictures…

    BTW, returning to the principal theme – will Cobh end up with some of the lamentable characteristics of Monaghan if this ill-judged project goes ahead? Yes!

    #767531
    Fearg
    Participant

    Here is an interior photo of St Eugene’s Cathedral Derry in the early 1970s, when a tempoary altar was in use. This was replaced in 1975, by Liam McCormack’s reordering, the huge canopy over the pulpit was removed at that stage. The “permanent” work shown in a previous post, was carried out in 1989, when the remainder of the pulpit went and the reredoses were needlessly mutilated.[ATTACH]1236[/ATTACH]

    #767532
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Continuing on the iconographic sources for the tympanum of the West Portal in Cobh, I am posting a couple of examples of the Last Judgement which was the usual alternative to the raffigurations of Christ’s Divine Majesty:

    At. 1. Conques-en-Rouergue, Abbey of Saint Foy, West Portal, Last Judgment, c.1175

    At. 2. Beaulieu-sur-Dordogne, Abbey of St. Pierre, South Portal, Last Judgment, c. 1130-40

    At. 3. Autun, Cathedral of St Lazarus, West Portal, Last Judgment, 1130-1145

    #767533
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    A final portal, this time the tympan of the Abbey of St. Mary Magdelan at Vézelay depicting Penntecost and the Mission of the Church, executed 1125-1130.

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