reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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@Praxiteles wrote:
To ask a question for a moment: this is a picture of Sts Michael and John’s on the quays in Dublin. It was the earliest Catholic church built in the revival gothic in Dublin. Some years ago, I believe Dublin diocese sold it off -rather stupidly since the inner city population has since risen- and I have no idea of what happened to it. Has anyone any ideas? It took almost a year to find a photograph of it and this one was taken c. 1965.
largely gutted to provide a black box for a viking “experience”… now empty i believe, though there were suggestions that the IFI would take over it for extra cinemas
@Paul Clerkin wrote:
largely gutted to provide a black box for a viking “experience”… now empty i believe, though there were suggestions that the IFI would take over it for extra cinemas
Thanks Paul for that information. I rather suspected that something like this had happened. Am I right in thinking that the facade has been clipped by the demolition of the two end bays?
The choir stalls in Waterford Cathedral
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Lots more shots of the woodwork in the Cathedral here http://www.flickr.com/photos/58086761@N00/sets/72157600286540394/@Praxiteles wrote:
Thanks Paul for that information. I rather suspected that something like this had happened. Am I right in thinking that the facade has been clipped by the demolition of the two end bays?
yeah but i’m not sure when that happened
afaik that did not impact on the interior of the churchSome bits were taken off the Essex Street side also (no current photo to hand) :
And from An Taisce magazine, ‘Living Heritage’, Autumn 1993:
@Devin wrote:
Some bits were taken off the Essex Street side also (no current photo to hand) :
And from An Taisce magazine, ‘Living Heritage’, Autumn 1993:
the front now looks clipped and box like and lacks the harmony it formerly had. Can anyone supply and updated picture of the rear of the church?
@Fearg wrote:
Notre-Dame-de-Croas-Batz in Roscoff, Brittany:
In super condition, fabric has recently been restored, but all the original fittings retained. Unfortunately, this is spoilt slightly by some of the usual clutter..
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Nice pictures, Ferg.
@ake wrote:
Here’s the altar in the Dominican church in Waterford I was moaning about. There were alot more flowers the last time, and there’s alot more out of shot, almost all cheap plastic. More shots from that church here http://www.flickr.com/photos/58086761@N00/sets/72157600277832250/
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Thanks for the photo, ake. Allow old Rhabanus to ruminate a little on what he sees here. If any of the flowers placed on this altar are artificial, then shame on the perpetrators. If, on the other hand, the flowers are real, then a few comments are in order.
The altar is dedicated to Our Lady Queen of the Most Holy Rosary (depicted as the Seat of Wisdom [with Christ Child on lap for He is Divine Wisdom Incarnate] bestowing the Holy Rosary on St Dominic and St Catherine of Siena). Because of this dedication to Our Lady of the Rosary, it is altogether fitting that all the flowers presented and displayed here be roses. The colours, too, ought to follow the traditional scheme: the Joyful Mysteries (Annunciation, Visitation, Nativity, Presentation, Finding of the Christ Child in the Temple) are signified by white roses. The Sorrowful Mysteries (Agony in the Garden, Scourging, Crowning with Thorns, Carrying of the Cross, Crucifixion and Death) are symbolised by red roses. The Glorious Mysteries (Resurrection, Ascension, Descent of the Holy Spirit, Assumption, Coronation) are portrayed by gold roses.
The roses were arranged in abundance during the month of May because this is the month dedicated to Mary and the faithful were expressing their devotion to Our Lady of the Rosary by placing at her altar the flowers most symbolic of the mysteries contained and celebrated in the Holy Rosary. Context is of utmost importance, particularly re the species and colour of flowers at this particular altar. Granted, they might perhaps have been arranged more artistically. Nevertheless, the general idea is quite valid and praiseworthy.
You and Prax should unsheath your machetes in the newer style of church where potted plants constitute a miniature jungle with water streaming across walls and irrigating the flora and fauna that flourish in the “sacred space.” The newly rebuilt Church of St Gabriel of the Most Sorrowful Virgin in Toronto, Canada, for example, boasts of being the most environmentally friendly church ever built. It is now styled an “eco-church.” Check out its website. It is the darling of the Green movement. Perhaps one of you more technologically deft threaders can cut and paste a few photos of this Green Phenomenon. I think, ake, you’ll be happy to return to Waterford once you’ve been to “eco-church.”
In fairness, it was worse on my first visit and there’s alot of plastic crap out of shot.
SS Peter and Paul, Cork; Anyone know when this dates from? There’s a similar kind of thing in the Newman church;
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University church
[ATTACH]4935[/ATTACH]What a marvellously intact church SSPP is. Except for a couple of hands and fingers missing from the wooden statuary.
@Rhabanus wrote:
Thanks for the photo, ake. Allow old Rhabanus to ruminate a little on what he sees here. If any of the flowers placed on this altar are artificial, then shame on the perpetrators. If, on the other hand, the flowers are real, then a few comments are in order.
The altar is dedicated to Our Lady Queen of the Most Holy Rosary (depicted as the Seat of Wisdom [with Christ Child on lap for He is Divine Wisdom Incarnate] bestowing the Holy Rosary on St Dominic and St Catherine of Siena). Because of this dedication to Our Lady of the Rosary, it is altogether fitting that all the flowers presented and displayed here be roses. The colours, too, ought to follow the traditional scheme: the Joyful Mysteries (Annunciation, Visitation, Nativity, Presentation, Finding of the Christ Child in the Temple) are signified by white roses. The Sorrowful Mysteries (Agony in the Garden, Scourging, Crowning with Thorns, Carrying of the Cross, Crucifixion and Death) are symbolised by red roses. The Glorious Mysteries (Resurrection, Ascension, Descent of the Holy Spirit, Assumption, Coronation) are portrayed by gold roses.
The roses were arranged in abundance during the month of May because this is the month dedicated to Mary and the faithful were expressing their devotion to Our Lady of the Rosary by placing at her altar the flowers most symbolic of the mysteries contained and celebrated in the Holy Rosary. Context is of utmost importance, particularly re the species and colour of flowers at this particular altar. Granted, they might perhaps have been arranged more artistically. Nevertheless, the general idea is quite valid and praiseworthy.
You and Prax should unsheath your machetes in the newer style of church where potted plants constitute a miniature jungle with water streaming across walls and irrigating the flora and fauna that flourish in the “sacred space.” The newly rebuilt Church of St Gabriel of the Most Sorrowful Virgin in Toronto, Canada, for example, boasts of being the most environmentally friendly church ever built. It is now styled an “eco-church.” Check out its website. It is the darling of the Green movement. Perhaps one of you more technologically deft threaders can cut and paste a few photos of this Green Phenomenon. I think, ake, you’ll be happy to return to Waterford once you’ve been to “eco-church.”
http://www.stgabesparish.ca/New_church/index.php
Take a look at the website of “St Gabe’s” church – pretty hip, no?New Church
A Roman Catholic “Passionist” Parish | 670 Sheppard Ave. E. | Toronto, ON | M2K 1B7 | (416) 221-8866 | office@stgabesparish.ca
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New Church
Fifty years ago the Passionist Community of Canada, at the invitation of Archbishop Cardinal McGuigan, built a beautiful new church in a farmer’s field. Today, that building stands in the centre of a vibrant and bustling urban landscape. Now it is time that, as a Parish Family, we bring to life our vision for a new church building.The world has changed in a half-century. The Passionists’ original dream included a seminary for vocations to the priesthood. The Church’s understanding of ministry has broadened to include the profound call to lay people. The population of our parish has become wonderfully diverse. And our responsibility to creation has become a spiritual and practical priority. These contemporary realities must be reflected in our community vision. For the Passionists, this is an opportunity to renew their commitment to the future of St. Gabriel’s Parish, and to provide the lasting legacy of a new church.
The new church affirms and emphasizes the warm and inclusive sense found in the parish community over these fifty years. In addition, the architecture promotes an even deeper sense of inclusiveness, as it links our community of faith with the community of Earth. The Sun plays through skylights in our worship. The Garden is not simply beautiful, but also instructive about our interrelationship with all living beings. Our sense of sacred space extends beyond the walls to encompass the illuminating green of the Garden. This, beyond the financial investment, beyond the actual architectural beauty, is the legacy that the Passionist Community feels privileged to present.
It is with great gratitude and a deep sense of mission that we embrace this new vision, and walk together into a promising future.
More on the new church
Do you want to know more about the new church?
Read about the eco-theology behind the church and its application in these two articles recently submitted to the Celebrate Liturgy Magazine:St. Gabriel’s Church: A LEEDâ„¢ church building project #1 (deals with theology)
St. Gabriel’s Church: A LEEDâ„¢ church building project #2 (deals with practical application)A look inside the new church
South wall of church
Our entrance called the Gathering Space
Living wall/entrance to the offices/elevator
Ceremonial Doors – the entrance to our Worship Space
Baptismal font
Baptismal font – picture taken from the front. Lecturn is in back of picture.
Standing behind the altar looking at the parishioners
Altar
Statue of the Sacred Heart of Jesus
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As far as petals are concerned, on Pentecost Sunday, red flower petals cascade from the oculus of the Pantheon in Rome to commemorate the descent of the Holy Spirit in tongues of fire upon Our Lady, the apostles, and the early disciples.
On 5 August, the feast of the Dedication of the Basilica of St Mary Major, during the chanting of the Gloria, white flower petals are released from the dome of the Borghese chapel of the Liberian Basilica to commemorate the wondrous snowfall (nevicada) that took place on that day after the Council fo Ephesus (431). Pope Liberius and a wealthy nobleman by the name of John were directed to go to the Esquiline Hill where the snow had fallen. They measured the space occupied by the snow and subsequently built on that site a great basilica in honour of the Blessed Virgin Mary under the title Mother of God (a title used early in liturgical and devotional prayer, and confirmed by the Council of Ephesus). The church is called variously: St Mary Major (being bigger than the other great church of Our Lady built likewise in the fifth century but on the other side of the Tiber in Trastevere – chiefly a pilgrimage church); the Liberian basilica; St Mary of the Crib (for it houses the relic of the crib in which the Christ Child was laid at the Nativity) and Our Lady of the Snows (after the wondrous snowfall on 5 August).
As the petals fall from the oculus/dome, the Romans and pilgrims from abroad dash forth to collect them for safekeeping and souvenirs.
If in Rome on either feast, do attend the respective Mass, and see this unusual form of “flowers in church.”
Of course, it was always the custom in Corpus Christi processions in so many places throughout the world to have the girls of the First Communion class scatter white and gold rose petals before the canopy covering the Blessed Sacrament. Anyone have photos of Corpus Christi processions in days of yore?
@Rhabanus wrote:
http://www.stgabesparish.ca/New_church/index.php
Take a look at the website of “St Gabe’s” church – pretty hip, no?New Church
A Roman Catholic “Passionist” Parish | 670 Sheppard Ave. E. | Toronto, ON | M2K 1B7 | (416) 221-8866 | office@stgabesparish.caLooks remarkably like an ESB show-room!
Rhabanus wrote:As far as petals are concerned, on Pentecost Sunday, red flower petals cascade from the oculus of the Pantheon in Rome to commemorate the descent of the Holy Spirit in tongues of fire upon Our Lady, the apostles, and the early disciples.On 5 August, the feast of the Dedication of the Basilica of St Mary Major, during the chanting of the Gloria, white flower petals are released from the dome of the Borghese chapel of the Liberian Basilica to commemorate the wondrous snowfall (nevicada) that took place on that day after the Council fo Ephesus (431). Pope Liberius and a wealthy nobleman by the name of John were directed to go to the Esquiline Hill where the snow had fallen. They measured the space occupied by the snow and subsequently built on that site a great basilica in honour of the Blessed Virgin Mary under the title Mother of God (a title used early in liturgical and devotional prayer, and confirmed by the Council of Ephesus). The church is called variously: St Mary Major (being bigger than the other great church of Our Lady built likewise in the fifth century but on the other side of the Tiber in Trastevere – chiefly a pilgrimage church)]
Here are those very ladies!
@Praxiteles wrote:
Here are those very ladies!
Great shot! Thanks, Prax.
I hope that the Corpus Christi procession is making a comeback in Ireland. John Paul II certainly did his best to encourage Corpus Christi processions all over the world. He revived the procession in Rome and had it go down the via Merulana from St John Lateran to St Mary Major – the very route used in the Middle Ages by the papal retinue for the Easter morning procession before the first Mass of Easter Day.
In his younger days the Pope himself carried the Monstrance, but with the advance of age and infirmity, Pope John Paul would kneel on a priedieu before the Eucharistic Lord in the Monstrance and be drawn down the route on a float. The faithful dwelling along the route would hang fair linens and damasks from their windows, and display flowers to salute the Blessed Sacrament.
At the end of the procession, the Holy Father would wrest from the deacons supporting the canopy a promise to hold Corpus Christi processions once they returned to their native countries as priests.
The current Pope, Benedict XVI, has maintained this praiseworthy practice, and so he will go down the via Merulana in procession next Thursday on the Solemnity of Corpus Christi (or Corpus Domini).
I hope that the main parishes in Ireland still maintain the beloved Corpus Christi procession. Tell Rhabanus that your parish still does a nice procession and restore his faith in Ireland as the Land of Saints and Scholars.
For petals to be strewn in this year’s procession, apply to ake or Prax. They have their finger on the floral pulse of ecclesiastical Ireland and are poised with machete in hand to provide plenty of petals on demand.
Ever since Hugh O’Neill arrived in Rome and had the privilege of bearing the canopy at the Roman Corpus Christi procession, the Irish College possessed the privilege of carrting the canopy until they got too lazy in the 1980s and lost it by lapsation. Nothing like a sense of history!!
@Praxiteles wrote:
Ever since Hugh O’Neill arrived in Rome and had the privilege of bearing the canopy at the Roman Corpus Christi procession, the Irish College possessed the privilege of carrting the canopy until they got too lazy in the 1980s and lost it by lapsation. Nothing like a sense of history!!
The lapsation allowed North Americans and others the opportunity to render this fitting service to Our Eucharistic Lord and to The Holiness of Our Lord.
St. Joseph’s Church, Liscarroll, Co. Cork.
The latest we hear from the Cloyne HACK’s attempt to devastate the interior of this church is that 13 objections have been lodged with Cork County Council opposing the proposals to gut the interior and demolish the existing sacristy. Cork County Council wrote to the applicant on 24 May 2007 requesting further information – and well they might as it was not mentioned anywhere in the application that it was intended to demolish not only the altar rail but also the altar, the tabernacle and to erase the entire sanctuary platform – in true Will Dowsing fashion!
There were also a few hairy aspects to the application as lodged with Cork County Council. On a few headings, it should be possible to have the application declared invalid. We shall watch to see how that one works out.
@Praxiteles wrote:
St. Joseph’s Church, Liscarroll, Co. Cork.
The latest we hear from the Cloyne HACK’s attempt to devastate the interior of this church is that 13 objections have been lodged with Cork County Council opposing the proposals to gut the interior and demolish the existing sacristy. Cork County Council wrote to the applicant on 24 May 2007 requesting further information – and well they might as it was not mentioned anywhere in the application that it was intended to demolish not only the altar rail but also the altar, the tabernacle and to erase the entire sanctuary platform – in true Will Dowsing fashion!
There were also a few hairy aspects to the application as lodged with Cork County Council. On a few headings, it should be possible to have the application declared invalid. We shall watch to see how that one works out.
This is an absolute outrage. There is no excuse for this kind of vandalism to go unchecked. Now that the case number is available, the folks are going to have to raise their voices in protest. How strange that during a period of relative prosperity Ireland’s churches are being demolished in increments. It took decades and in some cases centuries of saving to erect these monuments of faith, and now a cabal of iconoclasts are working hammer and tongs to destroy what their ancestors erected as monuments to faith.
This is all symptomatic of a much deeper crisis of faith. Who would have thought in 1958 that Ireland would be going down this path? What centuries of the fiercest persecutions could not uproot has been swept away in twenty years of prosperity. Is anyone examining this phenomenon?? Any analytical studies forthcoming??
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