reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

Here is a favourite: The Wies Kirche near the Abbey of Andechs in Bavaria:

http://www.wieskirche.de/

@Praxiteles wrote:

These are excellent pictures of a typical interior layout of a church in Bavaria dating from c. 1730. Note the altar at either side of the chancel entrance. The features derives from the time when the chancel would have had a a rood screen closing off the High Altar and would have been used by a conrfaternity or other pious group. The same feature is to be seen in the sancturay lay out of Brother O’Riordan’s churches. Following the Spanish custom, he brought these lateral altars into the sancturay and had them flank the High Altar. The church in Dunmanway still has all three altars intact athough they are not the original altars – but you can see what was originally intended. The sutccoed sunburst on the sanctuary ceiling is a nice feature and, of course, intelligently placed. Being Bavaria and having the Denkmalshutzamt, it is not possible to demolish the interior or strip out the fittings and furnishings. Typically, permission has been given to put stuff in – including all those Finnish Alto stools and the square box altar. Please, may we have some more….

Some more bavarian fabulousness from a small town:

http://germany.archiseek.com/bavaria/kempten/kath_kirche.html

http://germany.archiseek.com/bavaria/kempten/st_lorenz_basilika_interior.html

This, if I remember correctly, was the main Cathedral in Passau, Bavaria. I have no idea if this is a rebuild after the war, but I dont reckon it is. Dont think Passau got hammered too badly.

First we have some wrought iron work. Nothing do do with a church at all, its just good.

Outside the cathedral –

Pics of the inside of the cathedral. Lighting wasnt brilliant, but here ya go.

The arms on the funerary monument are those of Johann Philippus Count von Lamberg and are those of Lamberg and Podwein (or Podwin a Slovenian heiress) as permitted since the time of the Emperor Maximilian I. the Podwein part is or a setter rampant sable. the other part is Lamberg proper. The Counts of Lamberg were the Erbstallmeisters or heriditerary masters of the stable.

Peculiarly, the inscription mentions that Johan Philip, Bishop of Passau, was a prince of the holy Roman Empire but omits to mention that he was also a Cardinal.

Johann Philip is responsible for the internal decoration of the cathedral c. 1680-1700.

I would certainly agree that there is a need for such a body to keep a close eye on the would be wreckovaters. But where do you start?

What are the usual sources for old pre vat II photographs of irish church interiors? I’m looking for Waterford churches in particular. Where would they be?

Thanks. tried the first two, nothing. I don’t think there’s anything on the web. I’m fairly confident Waterford city Library will have something which maybe I can photocopy. I’m mainly trying to find out a if the Cathedral was always painted that idiotic blue , and also how long those stations of the cross have been painted on the columns. That won’t be for a few weeks though.

There are two remarkably fine side altars, ( I mean spectacular) in the Waterford City church, whose name I don’t know- it’s the one on Bridge street just before the bridge. I’ll photograph it in a few weeks maybe. Drop in anyone passing through Waterford, it’s well worth a look.

@Praxiteles wrote:

I would certainly agree that there is a need for such a body to keep a close eye on the would be wreckovaters. But where do you start?

You start with a group of people who know what they are about. The Friends of St Colman’s Cathedral (FOSCC) down Cobh way, for example, seem to have found the wherewithal to get the job of protection done. They ran circles round the aspiring wreckovators as well as their legal counsel, and called the local hierarchs to account. After facing down the bluff, the huff, and plenty of the guff, they succeeded in staying the proposed changes. An Borde Pleanala supported them. After all, FOSCC comprised a group of highly talented and well-educated individuals: legal & judicial professionals, historians of art and architecture, cultural mavens, experts in liturgical history and liturgical law, et al. They exposed fallacies and deception at even the highest level; hence their victory in preserving the cathedral of St Colman, Cobh, from some shockingly flawed plans. At the end of the day, the insouciant, self-satisfied, and complacent “establishment” found itself out-manned, out-manoeuvered, and out-classed by the FOSCC. Poor devils – they never knew what hit ’em!

Some of the FOSCC may have ideas re where to begin. The needed institute or society must be a legal entity marked by incorruptibility, high standards of membership, and uncompromising fortitude. It must not hesitate to blow the whistle on any outrageous plans afoot to tinker and tamper with Ireland’s rich patrimony of churches.

People power, Prax! Time for everyone to speak up and be counted. This thread has witnessed some astute judgements on the part of contributors. The love of the sacred liturgy, of good art, and of superior architecture ought to propel the folks into calling a halt to the frenzy of wreckovation and ruin currently afflicting the Church in Ireland. Whose heritage is it, anyway?

FOSCC members could play a much bigger role in putting the Smackdown on the wreckovation of Catholic churches in Ireland. Many of the photos of wreckovtions posted on this illustrious thread constitute a powerful testimony to damages already incurred by the Church’s liturgical, artistic, architectural, and cultural patrimony in Ireland. The evidence is here!

Doesn’t the papal curia in Rome have a dicasterial section of government called “Beni culturali della Chiesa” (Cultural Goods of the Church)? Perhaps an able-bodied group of FOSCC members could investigate this entity in order to see whether a similar institution might not be established to the advantage of the Church in Ireland. A few bishops in the Emerald Isle then might think twice before signing off on yet another gutting of an O’Riordon church or the removal of a Pugin rood screen by some parochial hack or HACK.

Once the glare of public scrutiny is trained unremittingly on these hale fellows well-met, their dubious behaviour likely will change. After all, what hierarch wants a liturgical, cultural, and canonical Cerberus nipping at his hind quarters every time he reaches for the liturgical cookie jar? Set Cerberus in the kitchen and just watch the local shepherd shed a few pounds. And those conscientious, God-fearing prelates who do recognise the value of sacred architecture (and who can detect a guff-monger a mile off) will prosper, beloved of God and of the flock entrusted to their pastoral care.

So, for starters, let the FOSCC grow a few more heads and expand into a Celtic Cerberus.

We could also use a National Trust for country houses and estates, yet after all these years incredibly there’s still no such body. I would be very pessimistic about the remaining churches and valuable features and about any group for their protection. I think Cobh got lucky.

Is anybody out there???