reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

@corcaighboy wrote:

Interesting….his reassignment would certainly ease some of the tension and allow for a return to something approaching normality. A fresh start…let’s hope so!

A blessed relief for all concerned.

I would not be holding any great breaths for that one. Dromeore is tiny in relation to Cloyne and his translation there would be seen as a demotion which – althoughdeserved – is always a no no. No, it is the lontg haul in Cobh for another three years when he will have the excuse to go on age.

@pipedreams wrote:

As a Youghal native, I can say that stencil work was painted over some time in the 1960’s with a green block scheme, and reminded the same till the pink scheme of 2006 (of which I’m not sure I like)

That version of Our Lady of Graces of Youghal is a copy of the original which in fact is only a few inches in dimensions, and is now found in the Dominican Church in Cork. It was originally in the Dominican Abbey in Youghal in medieval times where I believe it was huge religious attraction.

Yes there was a spire, and I always felt it a shame it wasn’t rebuilt!
My grandmother (RIP) often told me about it. and I always remember another story her father told her which relates to the above…

Apparently the original Altar was wooden, and was carved by local shipbuilders, and when the new one was installed, the locals were utter disappointed – as the wooden one was meant to be far nicer. I reckon there is some truth in this, as the confessional boxes in this church are wooden, and although in bad repair it shows the excellent craft work that there would have been in Youghal as this time.

Amazingly the Telford organ – which I often played – survives intact, but recently it also has a new paint scheme, which I do not like at all.
More about that here: https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=5319&page=3&highlight=youghal

Are there works going on at the church in Youghal at present? It is difficult to obtain any information about them if there are.

@Praxiteles wrote:

St. Mary’s Church, Buttevant, Co. Cork

The plaster ceiling was installed in 1856 by the Cok architect and archeologist Richard Brash who was also responsible for the Assembly Rooms on the South Mall, Bandon Town Hall and the monumental High Cross erected to the memory of the Cork archeologist John Windele which was executed by Patrick Scannell.

It turns out that the chancel window seen in the photograph was installed in 1886 and is by Mayer of Munich as are the Stations of the Cross erected at the same time.

At the present time the chancel window looks odd. The reason being that a wall was built in front of it in the 1970s -as part of a particularly bad reordering- which obscures at least six feet of the lower part of the window.

The Windele monument designed by Ricahrd Brash in St. Joseph’s Cemetery, Cork

@Praxiteles wrote:

It turns out that the chancel window seen in the photograph was installed in 1886 and is by Mayer of Munich as are the Stations of the Cross erected at the same time.

At the present time the chancel window looks odd. The reason being that a wall was built in front of it in the 1970s -as part of a particularly bad reordering- which obscures at least six feet of the lower part of the window.

AHA!! Now this clarifies much. If you will recall, I criticised the present dimensions when the chancel window of St Mary’s Buttevant first appeared on this thread. I complained that the figures are placed too low in relation to the window’s arch. The additional six feet of window below the figures would resolve the problem quite nicely.

Glad to learn that it wasn’t just my imagination.

Anyone have photos of the window in its pristine condition?

Why do they often put structures in front of stained glass windows? Seems the height of daft to me.

@THE_Chris wrote:

Why do they often put structures in front of stained glass windows? Seems the height of daft to me.

Barbarism: the combination of ignorance and arrogance lashing out against intelligence, design, and order.

Occasionally the absurd notion conveniently styled “political correctness” sticks a spanner into the works, as is evident in recent bowdlerisations of hymns and liturgical prayers.

In the 1960s and 70s a sustained animus against “stained glass windows” resulted in the actual “boarding up” of sets of stained glass windows in North America. One striking example of this barbarity occurred in one of the chapels in the Pontifical College Josephinum in Columbus, Ohio. These windows have only just recently been uncovered to reveal a series of saints portrayed in beautiful stained glass. The reaction against stained glass manifested itself in the use rather of “coloured glass” without the details involved in actual “stained glass.” Here naive, unprofessional “folk” art was preferred to the excellence of a centuries-old genre of art. In some cases not only was coloured glass used, but also chunks and lumps of amber or alabaster were simply bunged into place and stuck there by lead or some other substance. Iconography was rejected in favour of amorphous blobs arranged in incohate sunbursts or blob bursts. One seminarian in the 1980s described the overall effect in rather graphic terms. “It looks as though Walt Disney threw up.” And so it did.

In most parts of the western world, the 1960s and 70s witnessed a wholesale rejection of authority (religious, civil, political, educational, ecclesial) marked by a concomitant decline in moral, artistic, cultural, and professional standards. The result is the chaotic mess we now face in the Church, civil society, health care, and daily business. Perhaps things have not declined in Ireland with such rapidity, but Canada and England have an appallingly derelict health care system and one can scarcely transact any business on Monday morings or Fridays. The decline in church attendance in those countries is taking a huge toll inasmuch as few children attending Catholic schools are actually being educated in the Catholic religion – how can it be conveyed in Catholic schools when the majority of those employed as instructors are living in irregular unions and themselves do not fulfill their religious obligations? Nemo dat quod non habet.

You have seen the disarray of ecclesiastical authority in Ireland, It is by no means confined to the Emerald Isle.

How could a pastor of souls commission the boarding up of part of a chancel window of high artistic and historical quality? The answer may be too chilling to take on an empty stomach. I suspect, though, that at least part of this answer has its roots in “The Age of Aquarius.”

John Paul II called for a re-evangelisation of the west. Not a bad place to start. If the Church is to experience the second spring which that great pontiff anticipated, then those who value art, beauty, order, and truth had better step up to the plate and start batting. Who’s on first?

@THE_Chris wrote:

Why do they often put structures in front of stained glass windows? Seems the height of daft to me.

Quite often we see the pinacle of an original reredos obscure a small section of stained glass.. of course this is often an excuse for the destruction or truncation of the former.

@Praxiteles wrote:

St. Mary’s Church, Buttevant, Co. Cork

The plaster ceiling was installed in 1856 by the Cok architect and archeologist Richard Brash who was also responsible for the Assembly Rooms on the South Mall, Bandon Town Hall and the monumental High Cross erected to the memory of the Cork archeologist John Windele which was executed by Patrick Scannell.

Praxiteles is most grateful to RB for making available Richard Brash’s contarct letter for the ceiling and other internal works at St. Mary’s Church, Buttevant, Co. Cork. The letter is dated 12 June 1855 and reads as follows:

“I propose to execute the Alterations and plastering at the Catholic Church of Buttevant according to the plans and specifications furnished by me for that purpose. That is one set of plans and a specificaton furnished for building the Chancel and sacristy in addition to which I propose to make and erect three sets of red pine frames in the window opes (sic) built up and to fill same with metal sashes glazed with C. glass. Also to provide chiselled lime stone window sills for the above three windows. Also to flag with lime stone flagging that portion of the Nave where the platform is. Also to to (sic) fix a platform across the Chancel 6 feet wide as pointed out by Mr. Buckley with 10 inch step and to cut fix and regulate all the railings. The above work I engage to execute finding all labour materials and except sand and lime for the sum of six hundred and eighty pounds. June 12 1855. Richard Brash“

A further note attached to this letter reads: ” This proposal was afterwards reduced to £650 as Canon Buckley evidently decided to give the preference to Mr. Brash who was an Architect Archeologist and local historian of repute, friend to the Windeles and Fr. Matt Horgan and Fr. Smiddy” .

The Fr. Matt Horgan mentioned here is the famous Parish Priest of Blarney who erected a very interesting Round Tower at Waterloo near Blarney – which again is not surprising as the Cork circle of Archeologists and historians to which he and Windele, Caulfield and Brash belonged had a particular interest in Round Towers and at one stage embarked on a series of (much criticized) “archeological” investigations around the foundations of the Round Tower at Cloyne.