reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

@samuel j wrote:

….
some Michael Jackson fan got carried away…

Ah, so that is what it means!

I see what caused all those problems.

@Praxiteles wrote:

I honestly could not tell you what it supposed to be. This is the problem with esoteric art. It is al very meaningful but that meaning is not immediately communicated and has to be explicitated.

I am inclined to think that Holy Cross is on a process that will soon see it looking rather like what it did when Bartlett did his engravings in the 1840s.

Thanks for the Bartlett engraving. I quite admire the canopy surmounting the sedilia. Rather nice touch. Amazing that it survived the Reformation and all that.

Still, no one has explained the “space” beside the chapel with the tabernacle and lamp in it. What is this mess supposed to be anyway? What is that spikey thing, for example, with the luminescent depiction of a chalice in a pair of hands? What does it mean? What is it supposed to represent?

Who is running this establishment now?

This picture givs an idea of the interior of Holy Cross. As you can see, in absolute conformity with the Edwardins Ordinals of 1547, the sanctuary has been abandoned and what looks like an enormous block of granite -not native to this part of Tipperary- has been dumped at the crossing. Sitting under the canopy of the Sedilia is an organ bench. Opposit the Sedilia was the shrine that held the relic of the Holy Cross from which the Abbey took its dedication. A dubious looking thing in iron was installed there to hold the relic but I cannot guarantee that it is still there.

While the general reatoration work in Holy Cross is quite good -although it caould be criticised in some respects e.g. the unplastered walls – the liturgical restoration of the Abbey Church was a total and unqualified disaster. The approach taken, apart from the usual vulgarism of the fittings, took no account whatsoever of the original liturgical disposition of the church and totally disregarded the few items that actually survived the wreckage of the reformation. Clearly, this church will have to be liturgically re-visited and the thrash dumped out. Of the few medieval Catholic churches still functioning, that at Adare in Co. Limerick is the only one that still has a fairly intact interior installed at the time of its restoration in the 19th century. It is obvious in this case that the architect knew what he was dooing and took great pains to preserve as much as possible of the original liturgical disposition of the building.

Some moe pictures of Holy Cross:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58086761@N00/sets/72157600017663733/

@Praxiteles wrote:

Not since An Bord Pleannala’s decision in relation to Cobh Cathedral. One of the great things to emerge from the Midleton Oral Hearing was the concept of “liturgical law” which came as a great shock to many of the “liturgists” purporting to wreck Cobh Cathedral. These gents. failed to distinguished bewteen what the Church “requires” for the liturgy and the half baked ideas they picked up along the way that ultimately go back to the daft Pius Parsch of Klosterneuburg. Of course when they were making their depositions to the PA they failed to see the distinction and represented their own nonsense as a Church “requirement” when it was no such thing!

Reading those paragraphs, it seems to me that the entire law can be taken by both parties. The “For” crowd can read it and say they are perfectly in their rights to do it, and the “Against” crowd can read it and say that they have no right to do it. The law is wishy-washy in its makeup.

Especially 08, where the “For” crowd claimed they were respecting the Cathedral architecture, and the “Against” crowd saying they were not respecting it.

Both parties then go steaming into a battle, of the sort that has, regrettably, divided Cobh 🙁

@Praxiteles wrote:

Here are some shots of the interior of Holy Trinity in Adare, Co. Limerick.

Unfortunately, the plaster was inexplicably removed from some of the walls in the 70s(80s

Most interesting.

Palms:
full marks for the elegant silvern Rood (Crucifix flanked by the Blessed Virgin Mary and St John the Evangelist).
stately high altar
scrollwork over triumphal arch: Quam dilecta tabernacula tua Domine Deus virtutum “How lovely are thy dwelling places O Lord God of Hosts” Ps 83 (84)
veiled tabernacle
candlesticks on the retable (with protection of the flame from back draft)
slender pinnacles in silver admitting light from the east window
beautiful stencilwork on the ceiling of the sanctuary
communion rail
even the new altar looks like an altar instead of a disproportionately square butcher’s block.
plaster in the central aisle of the nave between the arches: great potential here for stencilwork and medallions of apostles or saints.

rocks:
removal of the plaster in the sanctuary and on the walls of the outer aisles

needs a competent architect to restore its full glory.

Where is James 1854? His firm would be an ideal place to start on this restoration.

And here are some shots of the ciling frescos in the chancel and of the exterior of Clare Island Abbey:

@Gianlorenzo wrote:

The section of the Guidelines relating to the Catholic Church were drawn up under the guidance of Fr. Paddy Jones, Bishop John Magee and some friends following a number of meetings they had with the then Minister Martin Cullen. All very cozy.
As for steaming into battle, the church authorities in Cobh never really entered into battle in any meaningful sense as they were so confident they would get their way. They believed this up until June 2nd last year when the ABP ruling finally came out. If you were at the hearing in Midelton you will have seen that they made no attempt whatsoever to answer any of the points put up by An Taisce, The Georgian Society or the Friends. They saw no need to explain what they meant by “Liturgical Requirement”, and appeared confident that the Guidelines they had been involved in writing would be sufficient to win the day.
It is one of the stranger aspects of this whole saga that never has any member of the diocesan clergy felt the need to explain to the people what they meant by Liturgical Requirement – they just kept repeating the phrase as if that sufficed in itself.

I wonder whether Tautology 101 may not have been one of the cumpulsory courses at Maynooth.

Didn’t one of the rectors of that place upset the apple cart and retire to the west coast – not of Ireland but of a strange land across the sea?

Just take a look at the quadrangle in what was once the glory of the Irish priesthood. They ought to name it Tautological Gardens.