reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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And here is the point about surface texture as made by A.W. N. Pugin in his True Principles of Pointed or Christian Architecture of 1841.
A better surface is obtained by using small irregular stones rather than large cut stones – as was the practice with any classical building of the 1830s.
A news conference is being held on Tuesday, the 13th of March at 11:30am, where there will be a press conference on the presentation of the post-synodal apostolic exhortation of Pope Benedict, Sacramentum Caritatis.
It will be interesting to see whether this long-awaited document will have any ramifications for sacred architecture, whether we might find that the Irish and British Catholic conception of the liturgical ‘mainstream’ is drifting leftwards at a dramatic tilt?
@Praxiteles wrote:
And this is what happened to the interior in the 1970s:
The High Altar was demolished]http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~grannyapple/IRELAND/stmaryschurchinterior.jpg[/IMG]
Can anyone identify the awful things above the statues on the wall of the sanctuary? They seem to have been painted on recently, but then perhaps they are the only survivors of the brutalist spray-job that obliterated the stencilling. Either way, they look odd in their present state.
Has anyone there heard of PROPORTION?By the way, I presume that the figure to the viewer’s left of the East window is St Patrick. Who, may I ask is the figure on the viewer’s right? St Brigid? I can’t see the image very well, so I cannot discern the hagiographical attributes in that depiction.
Who or what designed the garage-type lamps hanging from the ceiling? What a step back towards the Cromagnon.
The ceiling is of interest. Has anyone a picture of the full ceiling?
Were there at anytime lamps hanging from the bosses on the central rib of the ceiling?
Carefully comparing the old and the new external photographs of the “decorated” side of the church, it strikes me that the pinnacle crosses have been switched round. What might have been the reason for this? Any insights?
Was the medieval belltower ever surmounted with crotchets and crinellations? I am having difficulty picturing precisely how the bell had been attached or mounted in the old tower. Any photos?
Is there a photo of the interior before Cranmer’s henchmen got at it?
@Luzarches wrote:
A news conference is being held on Tuesday, the 13th of March at 11:30am, where there will be a press conference on the presentation of the post-synodal apostolic exhortation of Pope Benedict, Sacramentum Caritatis.
It will be interesting to see whether this long-awaited document will have any ramifications for sacred architecture, whether we might find that the Irish and British Catholic conception of the liturgical ‘mainstream’ is drifting leftwards at a dramatic tilt?
Thanks, Luzarches!
Any tips as to what we can expect to read in the post-synodal exhortation?
I hope it will start to address in an effective way the need to plumb the depths of the sacred liturgy instead of prolonging the rollercoaster-ride of constant innovation. Stop the ride! I wanna get off! Just point me in the direction of the carousel. Ah! I hear the sound of the calliope even now ….From Lewis’ Topography of Ireland (1837) on St. Mary’s Church, Buttevant, Co. Cork:
The new chapel at Buttevant, commenced in 1831, is now nearly completed; the estimated expense was £3000, of which £600 was granted on loan by the Board of Public Works, and the remainder raised by subscription, through the unwearied exertions of the Rev. C. Buckley, P.P., towards which Lord Doneraile contributed £30, and also presented the site. It is a very handsome structure of hewn limestone, in the later English style, consisting of a nave and transept, between which, on each side, rises a square embattled tower crowned with richly crocketed pinnacles; the walls are strengthened with buttresses at the angles and between the windows of the nave, terminating in crocketed pinnacles above an embattled parapet carried round the building; and the gables of the transept are surmounted by Maltese crosses, beneath which, on each side, is a cinquefoiled niche resting on a projecting corbel. The nave is lighted by a range of three windows of two lights ornamented in cinquefoil, with a quatre-foiled circle in the crown of the arch; and the transept is lighted at each end by a noble window of five lights, 26 feet high, and elaborately enriched with tracery: the tower on the east side was a detached watch-tower belonging to the abbey, erected by one of the Earls of Desmond for the protection of the brethren in times of violence, and incorporated with the present building
@Praxiteles wrote:
From Lewis’ Topography of Ireland (1837) on St. Mary’s Church, Buttevant, Co. Cork:
The new chapel at Buttevant, commenced in 1831, is now nearly completed]
What happened to the Maltese crosses that once surmounted the gables of the transept?
Does this description mean that the medieval tower was actually renovated to match the new one on the north side of the church? Was the medieval watch-tower of the abbey ever altered to match the newer tower ‘crowned with richly crocketed pinnacles’?
No one has answered my question about the female (?) figure to the viewers’ right of the central stained glass window. Who is it: St Brigid? Another Irish saint? Who?
As for the window in the east wall. I can identify four of the five figures.
From viewer’s left to right:
A sainted Western bishop with book: St Augustine? Nicholas? Ambrose? Colman?
The Blessed Virgin Mary
The Sacred Heart of Jesus
St Joseph
St Francis of Assisi.I think that an opportunity was missed here. There could have been an impressive Christ Throned in Majesty higher up in the window and flanked by Saints and angels directing their gaze towards the Son of God in the central panel. The current arrangement, by contrast, suggests discrete models selected from a catalogue rather than playing roles in a much greater ensemble. Each saint seems to have nothing to do with anything else around, including the adjacent panel. The colours don’t seem to harmonize either. I can see using them in separate windows along a nave, but they don’t seem to fit well together in the current arrangement. Much wasted space higher up. Again, lack of a central theme/mystery. For a much more interesting scene in an English neo-Gothic apsidal window (likewise based on York minster) see St Michael’s Cathedral, Toronto, Ontario. In that case the scene is a Calvary with plenty of movement vertically and horizontally.
The tabernacle in Buttevant, although central, is utterly dwarfed in the current melange.
Would enjoy seeing a view of the interior when it was still being used as a church.
Any pics out there?Here we have an example of one of the first Cathedrals to be built in the gothic revival style in Ireland, Thomas Cobden’s Cathedral of the Assumption of Our Lady in Carlow, completed in 1833:
And this is what it has been reduced to:
The gutting that took placed here saw:
1. the demolition of the entire altar rauil which, like Cobh, spanned the transepts and nave;
2. the disappearance of the pulpit
3. The stencil work and fresco work have been painted over
4. The ridiculous screen behind the altar serves no liturgical purpose and obscures t6he window
5, The Choir Stalls are gone
6. The dictinction between nave and sanctuary has been collapsed
7. The steps to the High Altar eliminated
The list could go on…..John Hogan’s 1839 monument to JKL [ James (Doyle), Bishop of Kildare and Leighlin, 1786-1834] in Carlow Cathedral
Praxiteles wrote:And this is what it has been reduced to:The gutting that took placed here saw:
1. the demolition of the entire altar rauil which, like Cobh, spanned the transepts and nave]
Utterly ghastly. A mini-putt golf course? Look at all that clutter.
No, no – By George, I’ve got it! It’s a stage set:
The powder blue suggests the boudoir of Henry Higgins’ mother in Pygmalion/My Fair Lady.
No?Oh Guinevere!! Not the wedding scene from Camelot!
@Praxiteles wrote:
John Hogan’s 1839 monument to JKL [ James (Doyle), Bishop of Kildare and Leighlin, 1786-1834] in Carlow Cathedral
were a comparable monument to be erected today to one of today’s Irish church leaders, I daresay the prelate would be in an adversarial position with regard to the personification of the Irish Church. She’d likely be crowned alright – but with that harp. It might look more like the thirteenth station (in background) than the sculpted group in the foreground.
I suppose, though, that the most telling monuments of today’s prelates and high-ranking clerics are the very renovated churches which they themselves perpetrated ad perpetuam rei memoriam.
Read Ozymandias to get the full picture.
Praxiteles wrote:And this is what it has been reduced to:The gutting that took placed here saw:
1. the demolition of the entire altar rauil which, like Cobh, spanned the transepts and nave]
The stencilwork and paintings in carlow were removed many years ago.They were replaced with several individual murals of saints all around the sanctuary walls. These came from the Harry Clarke studio. I have some photos which I will post soon. These murals however were also torn from the walls in the 70’s. So this latest destruction is the third time this church has been interfered with.Thanks James 1852. This is an interesting detail for the catalogue of destruction that has gone on here!
@james1852 wrote:
The stencilwork and paintings in carlow were removed many years ago.They were replaced with several individual murals of saints all around the sanctuary walls. These came from the Harry Clarke studio. I have some photos which I will post soon. These murals however were also torn from the walls in the 70’s. So this latest destruction is the third time this church has been interfered with.
I am looking this moment at an undated photograph of carlow after the stencilwork had been removed but before the high altar was wrecked and pulpit removed. I look forward to seeing your photos posted soon.
And here is another example of the early gothi revival: St. Malachy’s, Belfast, built 1841-1844 and designed by Thomas Jackson, a pupil of Thomas Duff. It has an elaborate fan vaulted ceiling – but I have been unable to find a picture of it. C.E.B. Brett says the following of the church:
A splendid building by any standards. The site was acquired by Dr. Denvir in 1839, and was originally proposed as the site for a Roman Catholic cathedral for Belfast. An architectural competition was held; there were 14 entries; that of Thomas Jackson was chosen. His design clearly owes a good deal to the original design of his former partner, Thomas Duff of Newry, for Armagh Cathedral. The church was consecrated by the primate, Dr. Crolly, in 1844. The central tower seems to have been added later – it does not appear in the engraving of 1848. See O’Laverty, ‘History of the Diocese of Down and Connor’, Vol II, pp 424-427; and ‘Buildings of Belfast’, p. 23: “The finest late-Georgian building in Belfast is St. Malachy’s Roman Catholic Church in Alfred Street, completed in 1844 by Thomas Jackson. It is a superb example of Sir-Walter-Scottery at its most romantic. The exterior, though of rather dingy brick, is fine and dignified, soaring upwards in cruciform to lofty turrets and an oak tower (from which the spire was removed, with advantage; it is said because the tolling of the great bell in it interfered with the satisfactory maturing of the whiskey in Messrs. Dunville’s adjacent distillery). The interior is enchanting: it is as though a wedding-cake had been turned inside-out, so creamy, lacy and frothy is the plasterwork. The ceiling is fan-vaulted in imitation of Henry VII’s chapel in Westminster Abbey. The high altar is placed in one of the short arms of the cross to make more space – an extremely unusual departure from the traditional arrangement. Altar, reredos and pulpit are all pale and delightful. The altarpiece is by one of the Piccioni family, refugees to Belfast from Austrian Italy.”
Holy Trinity, Cork City.
Commissioned by Fr. Theobald Matthew, the temperance apostle, from George Pain in 1825, the foundation stone was laid on 10 October 1832. Lack of funds hampered the building of the church which was consecrated only in 1850. The exterior was finished to George Pain’s original plan only in 1890-1891 in time for the centenary of Fr. Matthew’s brith.
One of the early gothic revival churches in Cork, its interior was savagely gutted in the 1980s and saw the removal of practically all of it 19th. century fittings and furnishings.
St Malachy’s:
Here is a shot of the ceiling – will try and get a better shot myself, if I get a chance tomorrow.
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@Fearg wrote:
St Eugene’s, Derry:
And a similar view today:
[ATTACH]4365[/ATTACH]
Thanks, Fearg! Good hunting on EBay!
As for the early photograph:
Gone today are the magnificent pulpit and its tester overhead.
No great loss in the disappearance of the lithograph of the Holy Family and the portrait of the bishop hanging to the viewer’s right of the Epistle side of the sanctuary.
Note the harmonious proportion of the sanctuary neatly girded by the communion rail.
Glorious east window!In the new arrangement:
Those insufferably tatty banners are crying out to be ripped down and laid to rest upon the ash-heap of history.
The thrust stage and the bulky-block in the centre constitute an unsightly embolism.
Don’t proportion and symmetry play any role in the formation of today’s Irish architects? Are they all ‘angry young men’?
I suppose St Eugene’s got off rather lightly, given the devastation wreaked on Armagh and Kilkenny.
Even so, the loss is sad enough.
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