reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

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  • #769694
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    The substitution of the panelled door on the right with that horrible plywood thing says it all. This is an example of what Ake referred to earlier as the painting over of this beautiful work as though it were a rusty iron gate. Awful, just awful and tasteless!

    #769695
    ake
    Participant

    @james1852 wrote:

    The first photo is of kilclaren church Feakle Co. Clare, decorated by us in 1932. The second is of the same church desecrated in 1982.

    Appalling, utterly appalling. Who are these architectural sadists?

    #769696
    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @ake wrote:

    Appalling, utterly appalling. Who are these architectural sadists?

    All the more appalling when one considers the economic depression of the 1930s and the expense that must have been lavished on the stencilling and other features.

    By contrast, the 1980s devastation demonstrates the sacrifice of Cain – leftovers and done on the cheap; reducing the House of God to a shack.

    Note the ironic touch: the sacristan has placed a green dust cover over the plywood altar, so as to keep the linen altar cloth nice and clean when Mass is celebrated. As if, amidst the sacrilegious devastation wreaked here, it matters very much about the altar cloth.

    Some amateur artist went mad with those plaster statues.

    It’s rather frightening to think what a few feet of wall-to-wall carpet and whitewash can accomplish. Even St Joseph has had his share of whitewash applied, and quite liberally too!

    Where are the culprits today? This world? The next world? Australia? Florida?

    #769697
    Fearg
    Participant

    Kilkenny:

    Those photos are fantastic, I especially like the way the photographer has captured the cathedral without showing us any of the blandness that now occupies the crossing! Its a real pity that some lunatic decided to put a couple of nice white rads on either side of the reredos.. what were they thinking?

    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/408049985_96bf6989e1.jpg?v=0

    And in the west end, whilst that new organ case looks like a quality piece of work in its own right.. Its not really in keeping with the gothic nature of the building and does not really fill the gallery like a cathedral organ should! Compare with the same view in late 1800s:

    Now: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/135/408037690_118e51446e.jpg?v=0

    Then:

    [ATTACH]4326[/ATTACH]

    Here is the east end at around the same time:

    [ATTACH]4327[/ATTACH]

    #769698
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    I quiet agree, Ferg, but let us be thankful that everything is more or less still here and not in a skip heap as with Longford, Armagh, Killarney and very nearly Cobh. The earlier organ case was a good deal more successful than the present one and took greater account of the window.

    #769699
    ake
    Participant

    @Fearg wrote:

    Kilkenny:

    Those photos are fantastic, I especially like the way the photographer has captured the cathedral without showing us any of the blandness that now occupies the crossing! Its a real pity that some lunatic decided to put a couple of nice white rads on either side of the reredos.. what were they thinking?

    Thanks, btw I presume you know that the full size pics are on flickr? The ‘all size’ button is above the pic to the right. Interesting to see the fine woodwork on the organ balcony at the west end- compare to what’s there now! The place truly has been wrecked, with those ‘furnishings’ in the crossing and chancel. I know this has been said before but the crossing now looks uncannily like the bridge of a spaceship, especially with the ridiculous jet black cathedra and blood red carpet poised on a height, ready to beam to warp 5.

    #769700
    Fearg
    Participant

    @ake wrote:

    Thanks, btw I presume you know that the full size pics are on flickr? The ‘all size’ button is above the pic to the right. Interesting to see the fine woodwork on the organ balcony at the west end- compare to what’s there now! The place truly has been wrecked, with those ‘furnishings’ in the crossing and chancel. I know this has been said before but the crossing now looks uncannily like the bridge of a spaceship, especially with the ridiculous jet black cathedra and blood red carpet poised on a height, ready to beam to warp 5.

    Spec of that new organ available here: http://www.iol.ie/~rod/organ/specs/kilkenny/cath_stmary.html looks like a right box of whistles. Just noticed that about the gallery, horrible.

    I agree with Prax, whilst the new stuff is awful, I think its preferable to what happened in Monaghan which also looks like a spaceship/bathroom showroom, but with ALL the original furnishings trashed. In fact, its probably also better than the situation in Newry, where the orignal material was hacked to pieces and randomly put back together. At least in Kilkenny, a full restoration would quite easily be possible.

    #769701
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    @Fearg wrote:

    Spec of that new organ available here: http://www.iol.ie/~rod/organ/specs/kilkenny/cath_stmary.html looks like a right box of whistles. Just noticed that about the gallery, horrible.

    I agree with Prax, whilst the new stuff is awful, I think its preferable to what happened in Monaghan which also looks like a spaceship/bathroom showroom, but with ALL the original furnishings trashed. In fact, its probably also better than the situation in Newry, where the orignal material was hacked to pieces and randomly put back together. At least in Kilkenny, a full restoration would quite easily be possible.

    And restoration there will be: and sooner, I suspect, rather than later!

    #769702
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    @Fearg wrote:

    Spec of that new organ available here: http://www.iol.ie/~rod/organ/specs/kilkenny/cath_stmary.html looks like a right box of whistles. Just noticed that about the gallery, horrible.

    I agree with Prax, whilst the new stuff is awful, I think its preferable to what happened in Monaghan which also looks like a spaceship/bathroom showroom, but with ALL the original furnishings trashed. In fact, its probably also better than the situation in Newry, where the orignal material was hacked to pieces and randomly put back together. At least in Kilkenny, a full restoration would quite easily be possible.

    Ah, I see the new organ was installed in 1981 – just around the time the wreck job was done!

    #769703
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Here is a picture of the glaring red (should have been green) carpet in St. Mary’s Cathedral, Kilkenny:

    #769704
    THE_Chris
    Participant

    How did they manage to keep a straight face putting THAT carpet down?

    #769705
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    @THE_Chris wrote:

    How did they manage to keep a straight face putting THAT carpet down?

    A good question…someone lost the run of himself and must think he is the Pope!

    #769706
    Fearg
    Participant

    @Praxiteles wrote:

    A good question…someone lost the run of himself and must think he is the Pope!

    St Saviour’s in Dublin now has a very similarly garish red carpet as well.. someone must have gotten a good deal on the off cuts!

    #769707
    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Fearg wrote:

    St Saviour’s in Dublin now has a very similarly garish red carpet as well.. someone must have gotten a good deal on the off cuts!

    Perhaps Victorian bordellos are on the rise in Ireland. Legion of Mary must be slacking off.

    Pugin would have designed proper rugs for church – none of this wall-to-wall trash.

    O tempora! O mores!

    #769708
    Elipandus
    Participant

    A propos of early Irish Neo-Gothic exemplars I offer the attached for your consideration: St. Mary’s, Buttevant, Co. Cork built by Charles Cottrell (of Hanover St., Cork) 1832-1836.

    Graceful, proportionate massing, evoking York minster’s west facade, sans towers.

    Until recently such beauty was considered humanly possible and worthy of the sacrifice of a few prelates’ new all-wheel-drive Porsches. Elas

    #769709
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    And this is what happened to the interior in the 1970s:

    The High Altar was demolished; the pulpit atomized; the stencil decorations painted over;

    #769710
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    And here is view of the south side of the church. It is interesting to note that while fine cut stone is used on the north and west facades, probably for econimic reasons smaller irregular stone was used on the south and east facades. Clearly, this was a matter of aesthetics for georgian classicism still dictated cut stone as the norm in 1832. Not until Pugin’s True Principles of Pointed or Christian Architecture published in 1841 was it realized that smaller irregular stone was more in keeping with the medieval norm and gave a better wall texture. The contrast between the cut stone and the irregular stone can be seen at the meeting of the west and south elevations while the comparison between the gothic revival and the genuine medieval can be made with the south elevation and the tower.

    Also of interest is the tower on the south side. This is the remains of a medieval tower house that was incorporated into the building of the 1832 church exemplifing a principle insisted on by August Reichensperger in his Fingerzeige auf dem Gebeit der kirchlichen Kunst of 1854 whereby medieval vestiges should not be demolished but incorporated into revival buildings and, if necessary, given a new function. In this case, medieval tower house becomes revival bell tower.

    The tracery in the south window seems to be influenced by the that in the east window of Chester Cathedral.

    #769711
    GregF
    Participant

    @james1852 wrote:

    The first photo is of kilclaren church Feakle Co. Clare, decorated by us in 1932. The second is of the same church desecrated in 1982.

    [ATTACH]4324[/ATTACH]

    [ATTACH]4325[/ATTACH]

    This is a total and utter act of vandalism!

    How anyone could do this and view the finished and rather cheap set up as an improvement would have to be an absolute moronic idiot.

    #769712
    Praxiteles
    Participant

    Some more shots of St. Mary’s Church, Buttevant, Co. Cork, an important example of the gothic revival style in its early phase.

    #769713
    Rhabanus
    Participant

    @Elipandus wrote:

    A propos of early Irish Neo-Gothic exemplars I offer the attached for your consideration: St. Mary’s, Buttevant, Co. Cork built by Charles Cottrell (of Hanover St., Cork) 1832-1836.

    Graceful, proportionate massing, evoking York minster’s west facade, sans towers.

    Until recently such beauty was considered humanly possible and worthy of the sacrifice of a few prelates’ new all-wheel-drive Porsches. Elas

    A rather handsome, solid building, the church at Buttevant. The integration of the medieval tower is very good. I have difficulty, though, thinking of it as a bell tower, since the Gothic tower looks much more like a bell tower.

    Has anyone a photo of the interior before the gutting and cheapening process?

    GregF’s comments earlier about the moronic idiot seem to apply here as well.

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