reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

@Praxiteles wrote:

JJ McCarthy’s St. John’s Church, Tralee, Co. Kerry

Interesting – seems that JJ McCarthy used very similar window tracery in most of his chancels (unless there was an apse).. For example, Derry and Armagh look like variations on the same theme. Any idea what the historical influence for these windows was?

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@samuel j wrote:

Source Great Island Community News – 22 Feb 2007

Letter from Mayor of Cobh
Planning decisions are an executive function exercised by the Town Manager (who is based in the County Hall) assisted by her staff.
Noirin Doyle, Mayor of Cobh“

That is truly an extraordinary statement for any elected public representative to make and displays a very tenuous hold on the prinicples of democratic government!! Mayor Doyle says “planning decisions are an executive function carried out by the Town Manager. The united States Government provides the following definition of executive power

” Leaders of democratic governments govern with the consent of their citizens. Such leaders are powerful not because they command armies or economic wealth, but because they respect the limits placed on them by the electorate in a free and fair election.

Through free elections, citizens of a democracy confer powers upon their leaders that are defined by law. In a constitutional democracy, power is divided so that the legislature makes the laws, the executive authority enforces and carries them out, and the judiciary operates independently”.

To apply these few rudimentary principles to Cobh Urban District Council, surely we have to say, that at least in theory the Council (i.e. the elected members) are the legislative authority in local planning matters]executed[/B] are carried out and enforced by the merry bunch of over-holidayed officials in the Town Hall? Has she not seen a grant of planning permission in Cobh which is issued not by the Manageress but by the Urban District Council?

In saying that planning decisions are an executive function of the Manager in which the beknighted Urban District Council has no involvelemnt whatsoever is she saying the electorate of the Cobh Urban District are wasting their time voting for herself because she has nothing to do with planning and they, through her, can have no democratic say on what happens in the place. That, to my ears, is beginning to sound a bit bolshie!

Furthermore, it seems extraordinary that Mayor Doyle does not seem to recall section 140 (I think) of the local government act which confers powers on a local authority to direct the refusal of a grant of permission for a specific project. Perhaps she has forgotten that she was approached in this matter by representatives of the FOSCC in July 2005 to have a motion placed before Cobh Urban District Council to direct the the Manageress to deny planning permission for the wholesale wreckage of the interior of St. Colman’s Cathedral? Please, Mayor Doyle, do not be hiding behind wet paper – I have a feeling that the population of Cobh and Cloyne diocese diocese are just waiting for the opportunity to go to the next ballot boxes to deal with all those who collaborated in the plan to wreck Cobh Cathedral and they are not going to spare the Tadhgh a dha thaoibh that is the Labour party in Cobh and East Cork as already has been pointed out. Vae victis, vae victis!!

The Council can have a real say in this if they have an architectural survey of the interior of the Cathedral commisioned and adopt elements of the interior into the Town Development Plan ala the 1985 Covenant in the Cork County Development Plan relating to Castlehyde.

The Labour Block secured the future of Bewleys in Grafton Street by passing a motion their colleagues in Cobh appear to be less protective of heritage and I guess it just goes to show that all polical parties have pro and anti-heriatage elements if the above account is accurate.

I doubt it is in anyone’s interest for CUDC to grant another permission to be turned over at ABP level.

Now theres a sensible idea as put so well by Prax “An Architectural Survey of the interior of St. Colman’s Cathedral – now there is an intelligent suggestion”

Thank you PVC King for your insight.

:rolleyes: Ah now Praxiteles, maybe the good lady has more important issues on her mind? Like the Right Honorable Lord Mayor of Cork, Labour’s Michael Ahern, who is proposing an Honours type list to be bestowed on people of a certain caliber. These mighty people will have the right to address our city Councillors once a term and will receive a plaque to put on their Adams mantelpiece.
His sidekick, Deputy Lord Mayor Michael O’Connell wants a departure from protocol to march for a short distance in the Patrick’s Day Parade in all the finery of their robes before taking shelter in the reviewing stand.
Now in fairness, who would be bothered with little things like proper planning?:eek:

@james1852 wrote:

Hi, I have followed your discussions with great interest over the last few months and I totally agree that all the distruction of these beautiful church buildings has to stop. No one has seen these drastic changes more than our own firm. We are the oldest decorating firm in the country specialising in ecclesiastical decoration,est. 1852.We have a large archive of architectural drawings, photographs and stencil designs of churches throughout the whole country.Most of our work nowadays is restoring the stencilwork that had been whitewashed over following vatican 2We worked recently in St.Colmans and Rushbrooke restoring the crib figures and painted statues.We are finding that there is a trend going back to old style decoration again.

Hello James 1852!

I for one would most certainly like to see your archive of drawings and stencil patterns. Can that be arranged? Also, was it only the crib figures you were restoring in Cobh? As far as I can seen not a brass penny has been spent on decorating anything in Cobh Cathedral for quite some time. The cow-hands running the place do not want to spend the money. What they are doing with it I cannot imagine – it was collected on charitable pretence and I should assume that according to the terms of the charity act at least a certain proportion of everything collected each year should have been disbursed. But this has not been the case with the St. Colman’s Cathedral Trust Inc.!

@Praxiteles wrote:

It would also be useful to compile a photographic archive of the interior and exterior of the building. Amazingly, there is no archive attached to the Cathedral – another consequence of not having an institutional provision for the maintenance of the building!

No archive attached to the cathedral?? This is barbaric! Even Alaric and his Visigoths had a more efficient system for tracking their property. I wonder how well the antique dealers have done because the cathedral does not have its own archive? For shame!

@Rhabanus wrote:

James 1852!

Have you a catalogue of your materials? Are you planning to publish your work? Many, I believe, would purchase a record of your firm’s contribution to ecclesiastical art, architecture, and iconography.

Increasingly, the younger clergy who have survived the seminaries generally have an appreciation of the rich heritage of the church. With their commitment to the new evangelisation, they stand a fair chance of bringing young people back into relationship with the Church. Only a few clerics manques and some greying lemmings would follow the likes of guffer Paddy Jones and his simpering panpipes over the cliffs. The young, the virile, and the intelligent are looking for sound leadership, as any FOSCC member will tell you.

I have had discussions recently about putting together a book about the firm ,so i’ll have to see what comes of it. A student in Limerick university recently did her thesis on our firm for her MA and produced a fine volume which has given me encourgement to produce something.

@Praxiteles wrote:

I think Archiseek has made the cultural discovery of the year – a collection as valuable or even more so than Fr. Browne’s pictures of the Titanic!!

Absolutely! Archiseek readers: tell your friends to check in frequently to see these rare pictures. Thank you, James 1852! We shall await your pictures with great anticipation!

James 1852: Talk to the Ecclesiology Society or Four Courts Press about your publishing plans. You may wish to collaborate with the MA student to produce a treasure trove of ecclesiastical art and decoration with enlightening commentary.

All the best for a quick restoration of your technology!