reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
- This topic has 7,926 replies, 103 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 4 months ago by
.
- Posts
Absolutely glorious, Prax! Scarcely believable that at least one Edward Pugin interior has survived intact. The stencilwork is amazing.
A pity that the view of the high altar is blocked by the ironing board out in front. I hope it is portable – so much more disposable that way. Perhaps a gift to Armagh on the occasion of their next renovation?
I am making my way through Anthony Symondson, sj, and Stephen Bucknall’s Sir Ninian Comper (Spire Books and the Ecclesiological Society, 2006). Splendid book! Thank you, Luzarches, for bringing it to our notice on this thread.
I hope that all readers marked Candlemas Day on 2 February in suitable fashion, complete with procession and blessing of candles, and that all availed themselves of the Blessing of Throats on the feast of St Blase (3 February).
@Praxiteles wrote:
Ake!
Here is an example of the kind of paint work you should expect to find in a neo-gothic church: E.W. Pugin’s St. Mary’s in Barrow in Furness
St.Saviour’s, ceiling[attach]4170[/attach]
SS Augustine and John[attach]4171[/attach]
[attach]4172[/attach]
[attach]4173[/attach]
It occured to me that changing the colour scheme in a church is no different from changing the colour scheme in a painting. Imagine taking a Poussin, and changing all the colours of the garments, the foliage etc to your liking, leaving the actual shapes intact, or imagine taking say, something like the Wilton diptych and replacing the rich decorative patterns on the clothes with a monochrome blue or red.@ake wrote:
St.Saviour’s, ceiling[attach]4170[/attach]
SS Augustine and John[attach]4171[/attach]
[attach]4172[/attach]
[attach]4173[/attach]
It occured to me that changing the colour scheme in a church is no different from changing the colour scheme in a painting. Imagine taking a Poussin, and changing all the colours of the garments, the foliage etc to your liking, leaving the actual shapes intact, or imagine taking say, something like the Wilton diptych and replacing the rich decorative patterns on the clothes with a monochrome blue or red.Spot on Ake!
How did the iconaclast Flannery miss the ceiling in St. Saviour’s?
Well the painting was beautifully intact in Thurles Cathedral. There’s too many pics to put here, if anyone wants to see them they’re on flickr under the username ‘ka1mi’. There’s shots of the Gesú tabernacle too, as well as lots of other churches, including Christchurch, which I adore.
Here is the link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58086761@N00/
The state of Giacomo della Porta’s altar is worse than I imagined. I cannot imagine that the present incumbent in Cashel was in his right senses when he agreed to this vandalism – it is just incredible that this should happen to one of the few important renaissance pieces in Ireland. Can anyone imagine anyone splitting the Pietà ?
Praxiteles wrote:Here is the link:http://www.flickr.com/photos/58086761@N00/
The state of Giacomo della Porta’s altar is worse than I imagined. I cannot imagine that the present incumbent in Cashel was in his right senses when he agreed to this vandalism – it is just incredible that this should happen to one of the few important renaissance pieces in Ireland. Can anyone imagine anyone splitting the Pietà]
Thanks, Ake and Prax.
In absolute agreement with Prax on the vandalism at Thurles.
The selection of colours for the interior of a church is of far more importance than is generally acknowledged today in the Age of Hooper. This applies as much to the stained glass windows as to the walls in the sanctuary, the nave, and the various lateral and perambulatory chapels. In North America, the additional scourge of (wall-to-wall) carpets not only ruined acoustics but assaulted congregations with the most appalling colours. Moreover, from the perspective of simple hygiene, they are a catch-all of the most disgusting germs and contagions.
I could not help but notice that in some of the tastefully decorated churches, like Sts Augustine and John, the statuary included plaster-cast examples, This is unfortunate. Statues carved of limewood or oak and painted or polychromed according to medieval colour-schemes would enhance the overall effect, particularly in those churches of the Gothic Revival period.
Take a look, for example, at the work of Sir Ninian Comper in Downside Abbey, Somerset, England, which houses the body of the great Irish Martyr, St Oliver Plunkett.
Gianlorenzo wrote:For goodness sake Prax. when are you going to realise that most of us do NOT understand German.:confused:
May we please have a summary of what all this is about? ]No need to screech. Here are the main points:
1. The parish of St Rochus resumed using the High Altar for Mass beginning on the First SUnday of Advent 2006.
2. This gave rise to “concerns”. The Vicars of the various deaneries in the Archdiocese of Vienna wrote to the Archbishop looking for “clarification”. The letter just happened to be leaked to the press.
3. When raised during an interview with Cardinal Shoenborn, Archbishop of Vienna, the Cardinal stated the following points:
a. It is what happens on the altar that is decisive and not the direction in which the priest faces when saying Mass;
b. both directions (facing the people and facing the East – “versus populum” and “ad Orientem versus”) are authorized by ecclesiastical law and should not be “ideologised”;
c. The Second Vatican Council says absolutely nothing about the direction in which the priest saying Mass should face;
d. The oldest ecclesiastical practice has been to say Mass facing East, towards the rising Sun which symbolizes the Risen Lord in his second coming. For that reason, one of the oldest principles of ecclesiastical archictecture has been to orient churches towards the East.
I hope the monoglots in Carrigtwohill are taking careful note of all of this!! Adveniet dies!!
I hope the monoglots in Carrigtwohill are taking careful note of all of this!! Adveniet dies!!
We wish but would not count on it….. but at least they might spot that the rest of us have…Can anyone out there supply information about Alexander James Beresford Hope who was the English correspondent of Didron’s Annales Arch
@Praxiteles wrote:
The Golden Altar of the of the church at Olst, Jutland in Denmark, c. 1200
Magnificent, what workmanship. Gold leaf or some format of thin layer overlaid on timber carving..?
@samuel j wrote:
Magnificent, what workmanship. Gold leaf or some format of thin layer overlaid on timber carving..?
It is all metal work wityh the metal being gold, gilt silver or gilt copper.
In all some 41 palliotti or golden altars from the period bewteen 1150 and 1250 survive in Scandanavia. Of these, 32 are from Denmark, 5 from Norway, 3 from Iceland and 1 from Sweden. The Danish altar pieces are concentrated in Jutland.
In addition to these, the next greatest concentration is in the Italian peninsula: the Pala d’Oro in St. Mark’s in Venice, the Palliotto of Sant’Ambrogio in Milan, the Palliotto of the Cathedral of Monza, the Palliotto of the Cathedral of Pistoia, the Palliotto of the Cathedral of Città del Castello.
To this must be added the Golden Altar of the Munster of Basel. And the Pala of the of the Order of the Golden Fleece currently kept in Vienna.
The Altar piece of the Cathedral of Bale in Swizerland, c. 1025, the gift of the Emperor Henry II and of the Empress Kunigunde, probably made in Fulda:
Re the Ecclesiological Society someone kindly sent me the enclosed drawing of the pillage and iconoclasm wrecked on churches throughout Cambridgeshire and Suffolk by the arch-iconoclast WIlliam Dowsing who spent his time ” smashing glass and other ‘supersititious’ imagery, ripping up monumental brass inscriptions, destroying altar rails and steps, and pulling down crucifixes and crosses”. He, it was, who despoiled the chaples of Cambridge University in 1643-1644. So zealous was the man that he kept a meticulous account of his workls in every church and chapel he visited. The drawing carries the inscription: “The Soldiers in their progress to York turn unto reformers, pull down Popish pictures, break down rails, turn altars into tables” _ sounds here that we are dealing with 17th. century people preparing places for 17th. century liturgy!
Strange, is it not, that the vandalism proposed for Cobh Cathedral by Professor Cathal O’Neil, and so vigourously patronised by Bishop John Magee, Monsignor Denis Reidy, Canon John Terry, Fr. Danny Murphy, Fr. Jim Killeen and Dr. Tom Cavanagh of Fermoy should strike so precisely at the same objects of Christian worship (altar, rail, steps, and imagery) as did their 17th. century forerunner William Dowsing who occupies “pride of place among the sacrilegious invaders of the churches of East Anglia”.
I hope to post some more material from a number of Ecclesiologist sources as soon as possible. It is very enlightening to see the depths of such a bigoted and warped psychology such as that of Dowsing.
Fortunately, we can fill out a little more re. William Dowsing from the following link which has a connection to the famous diary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_DowsingAnd here we some more interesting accounts of his activities many of which will be familiar to readers of this thread:
http://www.colnestour.org/william_dowsing.htm
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
