reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches
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To return briefly to the central oculus of the South Rose at St. Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, Co. Cork, here is a view of the Star of the Sea depicted in that oculus:
The article on glass in Viollet-le-Duc’s Dictionnaire Raisonné de l’Architecture Francaise
Here is a closer view of the glazing of the West Rose Window at Cobh Cathedral.
The inscription is taken from the Apocalypse fo St. John 4:8 [Nova Vulgata] and reads: “Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus Dominus, Deus Omnipotens, qui erat, qui est et qui venturus est!” [Holy, Holy, Holy Lord, God Almight, who was, who is, and who is to come].
The central oculus depicts Christ, blessing and holding a scroll, in imperial session, seated on a backed throne, with toga, bear, long hair, and crossed halo.
In the rayonnment from the central oculus, the tetrazoe or four beasts of the apocalypse can be determined since the band containing the inscription does not intersect them. The Eagle (signifying St. John) can be easily made out on the upper right; the ox (signifying St.Luke) on the lower right; the lion (indicating St Mark) appears to be on the upper left; and the man (depicting St. Matthew) seems to be on the lower left.
the remaining petals seem to be occupied by seraphs and cherubim.
The rasial cinquifoils contain 12 of the 24 ealders. All seem to carry thuribles -signifying Christ’s divinity- some are playing musical instruments -mainly harps. The upper one are seen taking off their crowns as recounted in the text of Apocalypse chapter 4.
The smalled outer triangles contain a broken border carried right around the circumference.
Another example of the Mantes/Laon facade used by Pugin and Ashlin is to be found at the Cathedral of the Holy Rosary in Toledo, Ohio, built between 1925-1935.
I was recently in Our Lady of the Rosary, Harolds cross. The interior was painted a ludicrous tangy orange! And the re-ordering- well.. if I truck had crashed into the east wall it wouldn’t have been worse- but besides that it’s a real beauty. What a vault. Does anyone have old photographs of it?
I was also in St.Josephs, Terenure. Is this the longest nave in Ireland? Also, what is the altar doing in the center of the nave?
Church of the good sheperd, Churchtown, Dublin, built in the 1950s and Rathmines.
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[ATTACH]4117[/ATTACH]@ake wrote:
I was recently in Our Lady of the Rosary, Harolds cross. The interior was painted a ludicrous tangy orange! And the re-ordering- well.. if I truck had crashed into the east wall it wouldn’t have been worse- but besides that it’s a real beauty. What a vault. Does anyone have old photographs of it?
I was also in St.Josephs, Terenure. Is this the longest nave in Ireland? Also, what is the altar doing in the center of the nave?
Ake!
The altar is in middel of Terenure church because thta is where it was originally erected. The church was subsequently extended behind the altar leaving it in the middle of the nave!
Have you any shots of Harold’s Cross?
Rathmines is very beautiful. I will bet taht if you count the futes on the column they will come to 4; the width will be twice the width of the raised piece between them, and the depth will be 5/8 of the piece between them!
@Praxiteles wrote:
Another example of the Mantes/Laon facade used by Pugin and Ashlin is to be found at the Cathedral of the Holy Rosary in Toledo, Ohio, built between 1925-1935.
This is a splendid cathedral from several perspectives. The iconographic program illustrating the Old Testament foreshadowings of the Mysteries of the Rosary is quite enlightening. The entire cathedral is an altogether impressive monument of faith.
@Praxiteles wrote:
To return briefly to the central oculus of the South Rose at St. Colman’s Cathedral, Cobh, Co. Cork, here is a view of the Star of the Sea depicted in that oculus:
I admire the fidelity here to mediaeval iconography in portraying Our Lady Star of the Sea with the Christ Child in her arms. It reinforces the greatest privilege and title of the Blessed Virgin Mary, namely, that of Mother of God (Theotokos). The medieval theologians and artists never lost sight of this cetral patristic insight and were careful to emphasise it in their treatises and in their art.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, the architects and artists of Cobh Cathedral are to be praised for dedicating the South transept, with its magnificent Stella Maris rose, to the sacramental power of water – all in the direction of the water surrounding the island.
Praxiteles wrote:Ake!The altar is in middel of Terenure church because thta is where it was originally erected. The church was subsequently extended behind the altar leaving it in the middle of the nave!
Have you any shots of Harold’s Cross?
Rathmines is very beautiful. I will bet taht if you count the futes on the column they will come to 4]
Rathmines is nice, but again the colour.. it is better than fanta orange though. No shots of HC. St.Josephs altar really is splendid and interesting with a nave on either side! The aisle going past the altar is an interesting space, and the ‘crossing’ columns are stunning. There is some diabolical stained glass however.
Where is the oldest illustrative stained glass in Ireland?
You might like this. The next best thing to being in Amiens Cathedralhttp://www.world-heritage-tour.org/europe/fr/map.html
this site also has Cologne, and not being lucky enough to frequent many european churches, I was surprised to see the altar moved into the crossing. It’s pretty bad! I don’t know if it makes me feel better or worse about the irish churches to know this happens in (!)Cologne Cathedral!
Thanks Ake for that. The problem with Cologne is that it was bombed during the war and lost quite a bit of its interior. As it stands at present, if you adopt the position of the penitent sinner and attend Mass at the back of the nave you cannot see the altar at crossing. I am not sure that it was not always there for the apse was occupied bythe shrine of the three kngs which still is in its original poistion. In the present set up, you only see the celebrant when he mounts the modest pulpit on the right – I once heard the present Archbishop preach an extraordinary sermon from it and of a type practically never heard in Ireland. Nothing like muscular German Catholicism!
Re. the Terenure church arrangement, it certainly is an unusual “accidental” arrangement but not unique. The arrangement was often found in the churches and chapels of enclosed religious. They had their part behind the altar and the public in the part in front of the altar.
Ake!
Here are some links to Cologne Cathedral that may be of interest:
http://www.koelner-dom.de/index.php?id=18963&L=1
@Rhabanus wrote:
You have my full sympathy, Leo, but I fear that it will require more than Mrs W-S-‘s letter, worthy as it is, and that of the Pastoral Advisory Council to rout the wreckovators.
At any rate, here is the Cathedral Pastoral Advisory Council Letter to the Diocese of Albany.
Surprisingly, the Rector, who was not involved in writing the letter, signed it.
Leo Wong
St. Colman’s Cathedral, Co. Cork.
Some photographs showing the progress of the building the spire the second phase of which was carried out bewteen 1911-1915:
This is a photograph of Cobh taken prior to February 1868 showing the old parish church which was demolished to make way for the building of the Cathedral.
Hmm. Looks pretty nice. Surprised they demolished it, could have put the cathedral in a slightly different place and kept that.
Edit: Whats the second church-like structure to the right?? Kil-somethingorother?? Cant remember the name.
@Praxiteles wrote:
This is a photograph of Cobh taken c.1869 showing the old parish church which was demolished to make way for the building of the Cathedral.
Interesting, have not seen this before. Taken from Crescent ..?
Re: c. 1869 picture of Cobh
The picture was was taken from the ground behind the houses on the extreme left of the third picture in posting 2355. The building on the extreme left of the picture in question may be part of the Crescent – but it is difficult to say. Clearly visible across the road from the church is the Bridewell – which was only demolished when the road in front of the Cathedral was finished.
I doubt very much that it would have been possible to keep this building and build the Cathedral on the same site. The site was already very restricted and required the building of a platform to gain extra ground. On the south side, the foundations of the platform go down 24 feet before reaching solid rock.
The church farther to the right was the Anglican church in Cobh. This was closed and eventually demolished in the 1960s (?) or possibly even later.
Interestingly, one of the former Administrators of Cobh was buried in front of the old church. His grave was preserved intact and eventually ended up on the inside of the south side aisle. The monument was there at least until the 1930s and then disappeared (apparently without trace). This monument is clearly visible in a picture taken c. 1912. Here is the picture:
@Praxiteles wrote:
Re: c. 1869 picture of Cobh
The church farther to the right was the Anglican church in Cobh. This was closed and eventually demolished in the 1960s (?) or possibly even later.:Late 60s i think, can kind of remember it coming down,when I was a kid or my dad talking about it but late 60s sounds right.
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