reorganisation and destruction of irish catholic churches

@THE_Chris wrote:

It a general thing everywhere. People dont like cleaning churches. They say its either the priests or sacristans job.

In a small country parish I was in recently, there were 100 people on average going to church. The First Holy Communion was coming up so they asked for some volunteers (out of the 100 normal churchgoers and the 50-60 extra for the first communion) to help clean up the church one night.

Four people turned up.

People say “The priests & sacristans are being paid, they should do it”. When in reality its neither the priests nor sacristans JOB to do it. Even though those two usually end up doing it. Sometimes a priest turns up, sometimes not, leaving the entire job to the sacristan and the 4-odd people.

IIRC the sacristans job is officially to do with the altar and the sacristy. Even in a small church, they arent officially required to clean and tidy the main part of the church, even thoug they usually do.

Maybe things in Cobh will jostle round a bit after the usual ‘Inter-Parish-Priestly-shuffle” thats going on there soon!

You are right to is hard to get volunteers and with dwindling mass attendees, this will most likely get worse.
We could talk forever on the reasons but fair to say if you cannot get people even attending masses then chances of getting volunteers will be 10 times worse. In Cobhs case, I feel that much of this apparent apathy is only symtomatic of the general feeling and mis-trust the people have of those in office. They have after all been lied to, cheated (in that funds they donate are not/have not been wisely..to put it mildly) etc.
Now combine these factors with the overall Churchs handling of various scandals throughout Ireland and you are on a very slippery sloop. Its sad, its unfortunate but its reality….
Over the last few years when every day another scandal hit the papers, it most certainly was not a time
for a bull headed Bishop to blast away at plans that the majority were against and many for that matter were looking closely at their own relationship with the Church as a whole. What is did suggest was a Diocese and the powers therein, totally out of touch with reality. You may not agree but all of these events were of course going to have fallout….. and alas those in office have exasberated this fallout with their ill advised plans.
Now we see the early results…. The Cathedral crying out for maintenance and/or basic cleaning, a mangement team that have steered the whole process aground, no money being released and a laity just fed up.

@Praxiteles wrote:

In the case of Cobh Cathedral it is quite extraordinary that no institutional arrangement exists to ensure the onging attention a building of such importance requires.
Until such exists in Cobh, the maintenance of this building will continue to be done on an unprofessional hand-to-mouth basis by people like denis reidy who, ultimately, know little or nothing about the building.

I too find it very strange that the custodians of such a building, of international fame, not to mind its importance within Ireland, have no formal and professional arrangements in place. Incredible is all I can say….

@Praxiteles wrote:

Not at all surprising. It just what you can expect from the gerontocracy that long ago should have moved over to the Cobh Senior Citizens Club! Some of these are so backward in their outlook that it is surprising they use electricity!!

Take your point

@Praxiteles wrote:

As for Cobh Urban District Council ever being expected to fulfill its duties under the planning act, or indeed to enforce the act,I am afraid that we can look forward to white blackbirds.

I saw a white crow a few years ago 😀

Will be interested to see if anything changes with Cobhs new administrator in a months time. The New Guy doesnt look like he’s going to take any shit. Whether thats good or bad I’ll leave open to debate.

@THE_Chris wrote:

Will be interesting to see if this Church Advisory Commitee will do anything useful, or if they’re just a pointless bit of red tape.

Im home for Christmas now. Hopefully I can find those Cathedral bell pics and that magazine of Ballymore interior before its ruination 🙂

Edit: Jackpot 😀 Got loads of pics of the clock workings, the insides of the clock faces and pics from up the top of the main spire. Will post over the next few days when I have a chance 😀

This little gereatric soviet is very dangerous. Note that after the last advice they gave (it was all right to wreck the interior) none of them has resigned or even tendered a resignation. You would imagine that a body which caused major embarrassment to its boss would have enough sense to know that it cannot continue and must go. But, in this case, no such civic sense. The only explanation I can think of is that a number of the members must not have sufficiently clear faculties to be able to tender a valid resignation!!

The actions of this little soviet have been highlighted in relation to Cobh Cathedral. But, nobody notices their pernicioous influence on the many small and insignificant churches in the diocese of Cloyne. ONe could cite the example of St. Joseph’s Church in Liscarroll, Co. Cork. The cultural revolutionists have been busy on this project and will no doubt have unanimously recommended a major wreck job on this mid 19th century village church.

@Praxiteles wrote:

This little gereatric soviet is very dangerous. Note that after the last advice they gave (it was all right to wreck the interior) none of them has resigned or even tendered a resignation. You would imagine that a body which caused major embarrassment to its boss would have enough sense to know that it cannot continue and must go. But, in this case, no such civic sense. The only explanation I can think of is that a number of the members must not have sufficiently clear faculties to be able to tender a valid resignation!!

The actions of this little soviet have been highlighted in relation to Cobh Cathedral. But, nobody notices their pernicioous influence on the many small and insignificant churches in the diocese of Cloyne. ONe could cite the example of St. Joseph’s Church in Liscarroll, Co. Cork. The cultural revolutionists have been busy on this project and will no doubt have unanimously recommended a major wreck job on this mid 19th century village church.

In North America those who show similar symptoms are declared ‘incapable’.

Roll the calendar back 40 years (“Vatican II and all that …”), friends, and consider that the vast majority of these time-servers were in their prime (mid-30s and 40s) ripping and snorting through the local houses of worship in ‘the spirit of Vatican 2’. These artful codgers have been in office for far too long. Problem with self-proclaimed or publicly-acclaimed ‘liberals’ is that they are liberal with most things except their own money and their power. You will find them fairly illiberal, too, when it comes to tolerating views at variance with their own.

At any rate, it ought to have dawned on the local Ordinary that his committee has long been in need of rejuvenation. Or is he expecting a plenary indulgence for stalking (stocking??) the gilded boneyard?

Question: Does His Lordship use a gavel, a crozier, or a scythe when he presides over their meetings?

@THE_Chris wrote:

I saw a white crow a few years ago 😀

Will be interested to see if anything changes with Cobhs new administrator in a months time. The New Guy doesnt look like he’s going to take any shit. Whether thats good or bad I’ll leave open to debate.

Don’t hold your breath – things are only likely to get worse.

The New Guy recently presided at a meeting for the Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion and his buddy from Cork Diocese, who he had invited to the meeting, told the people that St. Colmans was completely unsuitable for the Liturgy in its present state. The ‘New Guy’ didn’t raise an eyebrow so it must be presumed that he agrees with this stupidity. He also has a problem with kneeling, in that he refuses to do it even at the Consecration when he is obliged to do it. So all in all don’t expect too much in the coming months.:eek:

BTW I noticed today that Baptisty and Mortuary Chapels have been cleaned – well done ladies.:) Also when I visited the Cathedral the flower ladies were hard at it so we can expect the usual wonderful display for Christmas.:D

Heard they had a large screen on the altar on Tuesday night during the Carol Service. Seems that people have to be looking at something all the time nowadays. Gone are the days when one could just sit and listen without visual stimulii.:(

Excellent work THE_Chris…. keep them coming. Was up their (boys choir no less) years ago and can still recall the specatular view we had whilst singing our hearts out and bit of mischief we got up to…..the odd lollipop stick flicking to the un-suspecting congregation below when it all got a bit too much for us wee lads…..

Just a few questions concerning the management of churches, if anyone knows:

Today I was in the recently refurbished and re-opened RC cathedral in Waterford (designed by John Roberts who also designed the COI cathedral in the same city, which they say makes Waterford the only city in Europe whose Protestant and Catholic cathedrals had the same architect) begun 1793 making it a very much Georgian Catholic cathedral. It is so magnificent and has been so well restored I almost don’t want to say anything negative, however I’m going to. The problem is the paint job- it could be argued that the colour of the paint does not affect the appearance of the interior significantly, but while the architecture and ornament are still appreciable, I think an innappropriate colouring does reduce the aesthetic, potentially seriously. In the cathedral the side walls (south and north) are a perfect, soft, unobtrusive light yellow which goes splendidly with the dark woodwork (which is truly the most extensive and beautiful I’ve seen in an Irish RC church), but the east end and the many columns are painted a light baby blue! (Before the recent work it was an even darker blue) the effect is truly awful, and the blue should so obviously be the same yellow as the rest! Another church (also wonderful) in Waterford suffers from the same misfortune- the Franciscan church. This is also a light yellow, perhaps the very same one, but the chancel is painted a gaudy red and the crossing ceiling an absurd orangy yellow- contiguous with the light yellow and clashing with it dreadfully. Many Irish churches in fact are badly coloured. Now I noticed both of the above churches have been re-ordered ( however extremely sympathetically- so much so in fact, it is hardly re-ordering in the usual, destructive sense. That’s not to condone it -it shouldn’t have been done) and I’m wondering

1. Is a new colour scheme ever, or usually a part of the re-ordering carried out by the priests or bishops?

2. Even ignoring re-orderment- is the colour for a church interior usually specified in it’s design, and intentionally retained- or is it under the fancy of the parish priest every 5 years or so, depending on what mood he’s in?

3. Has anyone between the Irish Archbishops and the Pope expressed even an acknowledgement of what has happened to the churches in Ireland, not to even speak of regret?

4. Can anyone with a good knowledge of Catholic bureaucracy please answer me this: Are the Catholic churches in Ireland owned directly by the Holy See- if they are, is there not an official in charge of them, someone qualified and knowledgeable about the vast heritage/property of the Church, whose job is to protect and preserve them?

If anyone in the know could answer any of these for me I’m really grateful.