Re-open Broadstone!!!
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The problem is that Metro North has been skewed away from a Western alignment towards Drumcoundra and Luas would arrive god knows when to this location.
Given CIE’s record with this site I just don’t trust them with it. DCC if they had any nuts would have served a derelict sites notice years ago on Broadstone.
If this was another country I’d agree with you but CIE and heritage property being renewed in a project that doesn’t cost ridiculous sums simply don’t mix.
PVC King wrote:Gobsmacked by the above!!!1. The Broadstone option will offer no such ease of interchange. As for Cork to Sligo changing at Portarlington, Athlone and Mullingar, why not just complete the Burma Road from Tuam to Sligo!
2. Solution build the interconnector and flog Broadstone to Derek Quinlan, his management of Claridges has been spot on]
1. The point is, at present, it is impossible to connect to the Sligo line with the others without going via Dublin. This re-opening would make such journeys between lines viable without going another hundered miles east to Dublin.
2. How Flippant.:mad:
1. For good reason the catchment north of Mullingar is comparable to West Wales
2. I am totally serious; how many of Derek Quinlans assets perform as badly as Broadstone? Covent Garden is the prime example of a former civic building that provides full public access in a successful commercial format.
Why should the choice be CIE spend €100’s of millions doing it up a station or mismanage it as a bus garage?
A stones throw from Kings Inns and with an affluent catchment like Phibsboro the place would be a gold mine; in 20 years when the rest of the rail network exists maybe then it could revert to a station.
Cart and Horse spring to mind!
I don’t see that a mainline station is the effective catalyst for regeneration you claim it to be: lots of mainline stations, our own Heuston included, have seen the area around them degenerate. This area should be regenerated, but the catalysts will be the DIT, the Luas, the redevelopment of the bus depot lands, the emergence of Phibsboro as an important urban village and, potentially the redevelopment of the station itself. Given the interconnector, I don’t see what is gained by having trains terminate here, rather than interchange at Liffey Junction and the lose of regular luas services to Liffey Junction is a major negative.
@PVC King wrote:
Why should the choice be CIE spend €100’s of millions doing it up a station or mismanage it as a bus garage?
Boring as buses might be, they do need garages. One of the problems with this city is the lack of emphasis given to buses: no priority, no terminus area in the city centre, etc. Those two problems leave us with the smog filled O’Connell St, College green and Dame St during both rush hours and streets like Marlborough St and Parnell square that are nothing more than bus terminii for most of the day.
Broadstone, regardless of it’s other virtues, its close to the city centre and serves well as a boring old bus depot. Perhaps as a compromise, OPW should be tasked with maintaining it while DB and BE operate out of it, along the lines of the GPO?
@markpb wrote:
Broadstone, regardless of it’s other virtues, its close to the city centre and serves well as a boring old bus depot. Perhaps as a compromise, OPW should be tasked with maintaining it while DB and BE operate out of it, along the lines of the GPO?
Yeah but broadstone as it currently is is just a depot – you cannot actually get a bus from there as you can from Busaras – much better if the area was a hub where bus meets Luas
Why is “close to the city center” a useful criterion for bus depot locations: they are a very low intensity land use and they don’t have much of a planning gain. The problems of priority and terminus areas is separate from the location of the depots.
And what is wrong with paired up cross city routes? The an Lar -ism that persists at Dublin is nuaseating
On the building use
http://www.industrialproperty.ie/article.asp?id=36
The Station is far too valuable and architecturally important to be abused as an auld shed
@notjim wrote:
Why is “close to the city center” a useful criterion for bus depot locations: they are a very low intensity land use and they don’t have much of a planning gain. The problems of priority and terminus areas is separate from the location of the depots.
I guess that depends on what functions you view as depot as having. If all you want is somewhere to store buses overnight, then an out of city location is fine. If you want to remove waiting-up buses during the day, clear them off city streets, etc. then somewhere close to the city centre, like other cities do, is preferable.
@PVC King wrote:
And what is wrong with paired up cross city routes?
Because in Dublin, they’d be a disaster. Have you tried to get through the city centre on a bus at rush hour lately? The complete lack of predictability and priority makes it almost impossible to run effectively without…. more buses waiting-up on streets and crippling them.
Cross city routes lead to a situation where they terminus out of town; prime example 16A terminating at Dublin Airport and Rathfarnham. Given the size of Dublin there is no excuse for city buses terminating any closer than just outside the canals.
But lets not lose sight of the fact that the main use at this site is Bus Eireans maintenance depot which should be in Blanchardstown or Clondalkin
@PVC King wrote:
But lets not lose sight of the fact that the main use at this site is Bus Eireans maintenance depot which should be in Blanchardstown or Clondalkin
Absolutely. If the site is ever re-opened as an IC terminus then, like Rory W said, we should be aiming for a Luas / Bus / Rail hub with proper interchange facilities. There’s no reason why the DB depot couldn’t be retained under that use although obviously the road layout would have to change.
@J. Seerski wrote:
Broadstone is hardly phibsboro – it is TWO STREETS FROM PARNELL SQUARE!
But it may as well be Heuston as perceptionally this area is quite a distance from the core of the city.
(And it’s only1 road from Phibsborough :rolleyes: )
@markpb wrote:
Because in Dublin, they’d be a disaster. Have you tried to get through the city centre on a bus at rush hour lately? The complete lack of predictability and priority makes it almost impossible to run effectively without…. more buses waiting-up on streets and crippling them.
There was a bloke who used to live across the road from me who moved to a bungalow outside Mullingar; he always contended that parked buses were the sole creator of traffic jams in the City.
I don’t agree with him but the long term parking of buses in places like Marlborough St and some of the Quays are a major contributor to traffic congestion as are the location of bus stops in places like Grafton Street, Clare Street, O’Connell Street etc
Someone needs to take a serious look at road space in Dublin and just get the City moving; it is only logical that terminusing buses out of the centre can only improve the situation. The fact that the City may be gridlocked for long periods is beside the point; it is not as if some routes are freeflowing at peak time whilst the other leg of the journey is the holdup. Its all banjaxed!!!
A car exclusion route from Dorset St to Christchurch and Nassau St needs to be created for starters. And the Harristown model successfully implemented by Dublin Bus needs to be replicated somewhere in South Dublin and also in West Dublin.
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