Re-open Broadstone!!!
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Coming from an asset management background I can say there is no way that you could fund the ongoing maintenance of a substantial Victorian building such as Broadstone through a primary Museum use. This is accentuated by its recent use as a motor garage and decades of disinvestment in the structure.
In this all Island age rail heritage from the CIE era should be accomodated at Cultra which is an excellent transport museum in its own right.
The absence of any real clout for the DTO for the past decade is a reflection of the roads roads roads manifesto of Fianna Fail
One of the problems here is the height of the station relative to the rest of the city.
If the Broadstone line (to/from the canal) were to be reopened for a metro or a LUAS line, it would be necessary for either of these to either head underground before the station, or entirely away from the station, if they are to continue to travel in towards the city and maybe across it.
The gradients involved would quite simply not allow such lines to enter the station building and then continue further into the city.
As far as I can see, the only situation in which the building itself would be used is as a mainline/metro/LUAS terminus.
If cross-city metro/LUAS lines are eventually to be part of the overall plan, the Broadstone station building will play no part, though the line to/from Broadstone hopefully will. It is probably time to look seriously at alternative uses for this fine building.
It could be used as a public space of some sort. It’s an interesting building, I don’t however think it has much future as a major transport hub. Perhaps, it might be served by Luas / Metro, but not as anything other than a minor station. The site itself has a lot of potential though.
Seems a shame it was allowed to deteriorate so badly though.
I wonder if it was an early example of poor planning. It seems that the builders of the site might have assumed that there was going to be more substantial growth of the city in that direction. Instead, most of the investment in terms of new housing post 1930s went south of the river and most of the business district also migrated to Dublin 2.
Christ why do we have the DTO strategy and T21 if IE can just go ahead and do this? Is no-one in charge. I know we’ve had a wee election but why is no central govt representative such as Cullen explaining how this fits in with a plan that sees it as a luas stop only? Madness…
This is T21 from 18 months ago. where is it?
yes it’s the luas stop between liffey junction and O’Connell Street, to serve DIT Grangegorman. Does this mean that the funds for this project will be from outside the T21 €34 billion investment envelope? Can any transport agency apply for more funding beyond T21? Are they just making shit up as they go along? Is this now a higher priority than the interconnector? Did Cullen hope that by doing this we’d forget about the interconnector. Am I being too cynical? Have I asked too many questions?:rolleyes:
I don’t get this at all , wouldn’t the liffey junction luas interchange provide the same access to mainline services as a spur to broadstone, while also giving every 5 minute connectivity from the west side of phibsboro to town. What is the bonus of using this cutting for mainline rather than luas services?
i just don’t get it either. I want answers!!!! the luas spur will do exactly what IE want to do. It’s just a vanity project. Anyone on this site working for any of the transport agencies like IE or the RPA who may know what the shit is going on and may covertly wish to enlighten the rest of us through some sort of code?
Its a turf war!
Too much of that over recent years; no leadership in sorting out people that are supposed to be public servants!!
Calling this proposal a turf war is a far too local and blinkered view.
You have got to look at the bigger picture. Broadstone was the original terminous for trains from
Galway, Westport, Ballina, Sligo, Cavan, Oldcastle, Kingscourt, Kells to mention but a few on the grand old Midland Great Western System.Today the services to and from Galway and Westport are extremely poor because of the lack of capacity on the Cork Dublin Line. Cork and south/southwest is favoured over Galway.
The Sligo Service likewise is fighting for space at Connolly an has no space due to capacity limitations on the north south route.
Meath has no service at all and as long as the bottleneck at Connolly is not tackled, will continue to have no service.
Solution: Open Broadstone and link it to the Luas! Look at Heuston which works with Luas, Broadstone being closser to O’Connell Street will work even better. Add the DART element and you got it all.
Many more trains to serve Meath, the west and north west can now terminate without hitting any of the bottlenecks. Frequesncy on the old MGWR Mullingar to Dublin line will be second to none and, in my opinion, it is a no brainer. I even consider it to be a big enhancment to the interconnector by freeing up more route options.
Also, put a multilevel station at the Liffey Junction cross over point and link it to a Luas Line to Finglas via Grangegorman or the old Royal Canal Spur to Broadstone and one you have one of the most comprehensive railway syatems anywhere on this island.
IE should be commended for a last seeing the error of 70 years ago and grasping the opportunity to correct it by restoring this fine terminous. But I wish the political will was there to go much much further in restoring a once faboulus railway system to its former glory. Alas that is another story.
that’s all well and good. Why wasn’t it in the DTI of 1994, the DTO strategy of 2001, or Transport 21 of 2005?
are we gonna be subject to 10 more years of piecmeal transport planning? I’m not gonna criticise this as a stand alone project. i just wish that there was an overarching command structure. Also what about T21 being costed to the exact cent? does that matter at all anymore? Can the RPA now just come out and say they want a LUAS from Naas to Navan? Can Dublin Bus now ask for jetpacks?
Ah, wall paper reports, studies, look at the way they have been mangled by political interferance. For givie me for been so sceptical about these grand plans, for without the political will, all plans have no value.
Have a look at the fanous strategic rail review that was produced a few years ago. Yes, I agree, it was promptly dismissed and dispatched to the wallpaper department.
However, stop a moment, dust it down and, most important, read between the lines, and the case for Broadstone and Docklands becomes very clear. This, I believe, is the real direction that rail policy will eventually go and I believe that document was written as the word of the railway powers RPA and IE togeher!
In order to get the frequency to the west and north west that is called for in this report, one requires a radical shift in present policy. Giving old Broadstone a “lick of paint” and new tracks and making it sparkly fits in just nicely. Add the Luas and you got the cherry on top.
That is my twopence worth on this one.
In a word
‘Interconnector’
No more capacity constraints
Liffey Junction could accomodate 3 or 4 additional platforms with Luas ferrying passengers right to the centre of town.
The problem is the Interconnector does not exist and the political will to build it is fast evaporating due to cost considerations.
I believe that Broadstone.will be restored at cost less than 5% of the cost of the interconnector when one looks at the cost of the Port Tunnel. This will appeal to the Department of Finance.
Yes the Interconnector should be built, but at this point in time it is last on the list of priorities and so its future is questionable. This is why I have no faith in the political will to do the job.
By the way, the big turf war broke out last evening when Dublin Bus threw down the gauntlet over the traffic speeds in Dublin and blamed the LUAS both existing and planned lines. This is where the real problems for LUAS will come. Remember the late lamented United Dublin Tramway Company.
The editor of the Irish Times reiterated the news of Broadstone’s bright future in an excellent comment on Dublin’s traffic crises today.
The RPA does not have a track plan to extend the LUAS beyoond Broadstone and Grangegorman on its current list of projects on its website.
So it is all coming together just nicely for the powers that be, no matter what our views are. Broadstone is so much easier to maintain as a historic builing doing exactly what it was designed to do unlike its current use.
Its what we have, let us throw our weight behind this project for the greater good.
As the person who started this thread (back in 2003!) I am particularly pleased to hear this is going ahead.
Broadstone works for several reasons that an interconnector cannot:
1. An Interconnector will not resolve capacity problems.
2. An Interconnector will not address the lack of public transport to the northwest part of Dublin/Ireland in general.
3. An Interconnector will make Heuston obsolete – why on earth would you travel from Galway/Cork to Heuston when you could go to Stephens Green?
4. Broadstone would decrease capacity problems whereas the Interconnector would redirect all capacity to one or two termini.Broadstone will change Irish Rail in a way that has not happened – it will facilitate the re-opening of the Navan and Athlone-Mullingar lines, enabling a truly branchline network to re-emerge. At the moment, if these line were re-opened, Connolly would not cope and frequencies would be even further under pressure. The latter line in particular will facilitate cross-country travel whereas all cross country travel at the moment has to go via Dublin. One example of this: At the moment, to go from Cork to Sligo, you have to go to Dublin first, luas to Connolly, then Connolly to Sligo. With the re-opening of the Athlone- Mullingar line, you could transfer for Sligo via Portarlington/Athlone/Mullingar and Dublin does not come into the equation at all. Similarly, journeys from Maynooth to Galway become viable, Mullingar to Cork etc. etc. A true renaissance in railway travel will begin.
Broadstone’s re-opening will also act as a catalyst to the regeneration of this part of the city centre. It is a mere two streets from Parnell Square and as stated already it is closer to the Spire than Heuston and is the same distance as indeed Connolly (just checked OS maps). One of Dublin’s major weaknesses is the compactness of the city centre. Broadstone’s re-opening will facilitate the growth of the city centre towards Smithfield and Heuston. Prior to its closure in the 1930s, the area surrounding the station was dotted with hotels. Needless to say, they disappeared with Broadstone’s closure.
Every day I pass Broadstone I fell like I am passing a neglected elederly woman that has seen better days. Next time I pass, I will ignore her, safe in the knowledge the best is yet to come for her.
Welcome Back Broadstone – you were sorely missed! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Gobsmacked by the above!!!
The main capacity constraint in the system is the section of track between Newcommen Curve Dublin 3 and Barrow Street. The problem is that two lines merge i.e. Longford/Maynooth to Bray and the Northern Line from Dundalk/Howth to Bray/Arklow.
The interconnector solution was to remove almost all Northern traffic from the Barrow Street to NewCommen constraint zone. The Southern to Maynooth traffic will then interchange with northern and Kildare traffic at Pearse St and connect twice with the existing line at right angles.
The Broadstone option will offer no such ease of interchange. As for Cork to Sligo changing at Portarlington, Athlone and Mullingar, why not just complete the Burma Road from Tuam to Sligo!
Solution build the interconnector and flog Broadstone to Derek Quinlan, his management of Claridges has been spot on; a Gordon Ramsey Restaurant would really put the place on the map!
@J. Seerski wrote:
3. An Interconnector will make Heuston obsolete – why on earth would you travel from Galway/Cork to Heuston when you could go to Stephens Green?
I would assume it will still work as a terminus for intercity trains in the same way that Connolly does (i.e. You can’t get the Belfast train to Pearse but you can change at Connolly) and commuter/Darts would use the interconnector.
I welcome the reopening of Broadstone as something but (and lets face it) Phibsborough is hardly going to become a destination overnight for commuters in the same way that the Tara, Connolly, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock serve the CBD. Therefore the onward journey must be considered.
Personally I think it would be better served as a hub for Luas where lines from Blanchardstown (serving Grangegorman DIT), Finglas and the airport (via DCU/Ballymun) could meet before linking up with a single line to Marlborough Steet (via Western way and Dominic Street) which inturn would link into the green line via Hawkins Street. However to facilitate 2 of these Luas lines you would need to use the old track reservation as far as Liffey junction (where the Navan line could terminate).
@J. Seerski wrote:
Broadstone works for several reasons that an interconnector cannot:
1. An Interconnector will not resolve capacity problems.
2. An Interconnector will not address the lack of public transport to the northwest part of Dublin/Ireland in general.
3. An Interconnector will make Heuston obsolete – why on earth would you travel from Galway/Cork to Heuston when you could go to Stephens Green?
4. Broadstone would decrease capacity problems whereas the Interconnector would redirect all capacity to one or two termini.There are no words really…:eek:
There are
London pre underground
Steady on lads – there is no reason why Dublin cannot have another mainline train station and there are plenty why it should.
It is not an either or situation re Broadstone vs Interconnector – have both if you please, but Broadstone is bothe cheaper and easier to deliver in the short term. Again, it would act as a catalyst to expand the city centre – it needs to go beyond O’Connell Street and St. Stephen’s Green…
Broadstone is hardly phibsboro – it is TWO STREETS FROM PARNELL SQUARE!
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