Question to DDDA at 1pm TODAY

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    • #708840
      Rusty Cogs
      Participant

      I’m going to a DDDA presentation at 1pm today. Anyone got any good questions I can throw at them (if I get the opportunity). If not I’ll let you know what they said in their presentation after.

    • #784076
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      When are they going to start work on Macken Street.

      What ever happened to the framework plan for the Erne Street-Westland Row area?

      Whats the story with the conference centre?

      Isnt the Bolands Mill proposal absolutely awful. Will they object?

      Can they do something about the crappy campshires at Georges Quay…its an eyesore.

      Any plans for the older bridges in the area.

      Just do your best Rusty Cogs!!! Thats all your website can ask of you!

    • #784077
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      point out that the proposed bridge over the canal locks adjacent to the liffey and u2 tower will take really take away from what will be a small village at the end of the quays , and there are other options.

      OBJECT (thump them) over the wisdom to fill in the dock in favour of the canal for the abbey

      ask them to keep the two shed on the south of the liffey. they could really be put to good use. like a restaurant or night club. there is a shed on the inner dock which looks very well, (i think it is a restaurant) . and they nicely balance the two modern restaurants on the northside quay.

    • #784078
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      as with a boyle – tell them not to fill in the dock, ask them why they didn’t persue a proper cultural attraction for the stack a, ask them what the plans are for the old pidgeon house and . . .

      . . . ask them if they have any plans for culturally appropriate traveller accomadation, the docklands are one of the few places in the city where there is (was) a well established traveller family, it would be precident setting and valuable if they could work out how to accomadate them in the context of intensive, commercial, urban development.

    • #784079
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      You could try and find out why they don’t put in straight uninterrupted cycle lanes in the camphires rather than the go.chicane. stop.start.out on road.back again.stop.chicane.stop.start version we have now. The lanes seem designed to needlessly frustrate.

      Go quick now, it’s quarter to one!

    • #784080
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ask them to explain the concept of privately owned ‘public space’ (so-called).

      And ask why photography is not permitted within the DDDA functional area (I kid you not).

      And ask under what legislation the locking of bicycles to railings is forbidden.

    • #784081
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Ah, maybe I’ll just congratulate them on a job well done 😉

    • #784082
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      OK guys, went to the presentation. Nothing ground breaking to report but I have to ask before I divulge. Is there any come back on me from the DDDA if I start paraphrasing them, discussing what was said etc. Don’t want to get my ass sued and all that ?

    • #784083
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      use the word alleged. it is what politicians do

    • #784084
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      “The DDDA were quoted as saying..”

    • #784085
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      “My understanding of their position – and I’m open to correction on this – is that…”

      Anyway, what’d they do? Look up ‘Cogs, Rusty’ in the phone book?;)

    • #784086
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      If the meeting was not subject to a confidentiality clause and you state accurately what was said rather than your personal idea of what they said they can’t sue you. Interesting point from the Beverly Cooper Flynn legal trial was that you can’t be defamed if you don’t have a reputation. Does the ddda have one:D

    • #784087
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      The venerable house of Cogs indeed.

      OK, to the best of my recollection, but I could be wrong, they never said any of this etc etc.

      I asked about the wisdom of filling in Georges Dock for the Abbey. She stated that it wasn’t going to be filled in but the Abbey built in the centre of it with a moat effect around the sides. The cost of continually draining and refilling the dock for current shows was proving costly. She thought the loss of the water body, historic docklands feature would be outwayed by the benefits of having the national theatre in the docklands.

      I asked if it was a good idea to anchor the CHQ with a department store and would a cultural (say Museum) anchor tennent not be better. She agreed but said that their studies showed that Dublin was over populated with Museums and although she would have liked something similar to go in there after three years of trying it just never happened.

      I asked if the hight restrictions in the north Lotts would be raised now that the Point Village Tower was going to be 100m and the current hight levels in the IFSC meant that there was not sufficient density of people to create a 24 hour urban environment. She said (ED;as far as I remember, I could be wrong) that the hight restrictions would be revised to allow taller buildings down there now that the bar had been raised by the Beacon Tower.

      I asked why the cycle lanes were so badly designed with chicanes and a stop start approach. She didn’t give much of a response on this (not sure how much cycling she does). I pressed the point that if there was any more development on the campshires that they should have clear destinctions between path ways and cycle ways with signs showing who should be where (and no more chicanes). I hammered this point home a bit but the crowd began to grown so we moved on.

      Within the presentation the mentioned the following (or maybe I imagined it)

      They are not sure as what to do with the BJ Marine buildings on the soutern campshires but recognise their current state cannot be left.

      The Luas will take about three years before it gets down to the point.

      The Macken St. (Beckett) bridge guys should be on site very soon (a month maybe) to start to prep the site for the bridge build. Also to take about three years.

      There are no immediate plans to run buses down the southside. Could be another 3 years (noticing a pattern hear yet ?) before Dubin Bus puts in a route.

      The bridge connecting Britain Quay and York road will only carry buses (this wasn’t very clear so not sure what the purpose of building a bridge for only buses is). It will take guess how long ? 3 years.

      The Liebskin theatre will take 5 years but the fancy red & green instillation will be finished next year.

      The U2 Tower is out to tender as we know.

      The national conference centre build is a matter being discussed by Treasury and the government at the moment

      I didn’t get to ask about the Travellers or Bolands mill (not even sure if that site is within their remit).

    • #784088
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Might we ask who ‘she’ was?:)

    • #784089
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      well done for going . it would seem to have been the normal state agency meeting.

      Create the impression of openess and interaction, while giving next to nothing away and changing none of your decisions.

    • #784090
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Can’t remember her name 😮 . From the marketing department (hence being hazy on details regarding design,construction).

      They are also revamping their website and there will be a facility to email queries to the DDDA.

    • #784091
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      It sounded interesting enough…its alwys good to hear progress reports. In fairness anything major to announce would have been done in a much more media focused environment. So 3 years is our next big deadline…. it was 5 years a few years back. Perhaps we should organise a big party for 2010!

    • #784092
      Anonymous
      Inactive
      Rusty Cogs wrote:
      The venerable house of Cogs indeed.

      OK, to the best of my recollection, but I could be wrong, they never said any of this etc etc.

      I asked about the wisdom of filling in Georges Dock for the Abbey. She stated that it wasn’t going to be filled in but the Abbey built in the centre of it with a moat effect around the sides. The cost of continually draining and refilling the dock for current shows was proving costly. She thought the loss of the water body, historic docklands feature would be outwayed by the benefits of having the national theatre in the docklands.

      I asked if it was a good idea to anchor the CHQ with a department store and would a cultural (say Museum) anchor tennent not be better. She agreed but said that their studies showed that Dublin was over populated with Museums and although she would have liked something similar to go in there after three years of trying it just never happened.

      I asked if the hight restrictions in the north Lotts would be raised now that the Point Village Tower was going to be 100m and the current hight levels in the IFSC meant that there was not sufficient density of people to create a 24 hour urban environment. She said (ED]

      Thanks for that:) Just her reference to the Beacon Tower: Is this the one in Sandyford? Is it under construction? I dont see how they could use that as guidence to how high they want to go in the Docklands if its not even under construction yet. Also good to see clarification on the Georges Dock site. I thought the body of water in its entireity would disappear.:)

    • #784093
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      WOW! 17 posts before the first high-rise plugger came in!

      Must be a record for a docklands thread!!

    • #784094
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @ctesiphon wrote:

      And ask why photography is not permitted within the DDDA functional area (I kid you not).

      Is this still the case? I rembember something about it a few years ago, but I thought it had been relaxed now. Have you had recent experience of being stopped?

    • #784095
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      I was talking to a photographer who was exhibiting at the recent Dublin Bicycle Festival, and he said that a few months ago he was on Mayor Street taking photos of the feet of passers-by – and using a tripod – when a guard in a hi-vis jacket approached him to tell him that photography was not permitted and that he had to pack up his equipment and leave the area. As he was walking towards Connolly Stn, there was a different hi-vis security guard at each junction making sure he didn’t dally on his way out, i.e. the original guard must have radioed all of his colleagues telling them to keep an eye out for this fella as he left.

      The place is so dull it must have been the highlight of their day, though. “At last!! Something to do!!”

      (Now there’s always the chance that there isn’t a rule against it [any more?], but that didn’t stop the guards from telling him that it was forbidden. A bit like cycling… [seriously- there are signs!])

    • #784096
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Thanks for that Ctesiphon. As I say, I thought it was a thing of the past. Must be still enforced though.

    • #784097
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @ctesiphon wrote:

      I was talking to a photographer who was exhibiting at the recent Dublin Bicycle Festival, and he said that a few months ago he was on Mayor Street taking photos of the feet of passers-by – and using a tripod – when a guard in a hi-vis jacket approached him to tell him that photography was not permitted and that he had to pack up his equipment and leave the area. As he was walking towards Connolly Stn, there was a different hi-vis security guard at each junction making sure he didn’t dally on his way out, i.e. the original guard must have radioed all of his colleagues telling them to keep an eye out for this fella as he left.

      Yeah but would they ever go off the main road in the IFSC. Not on your life. I remember living in Custom House square and the apartments would be stoned every weekend by kids living in the flats behind. The guards would never leave the main street to come around. It’s all for appearance.:mad:

    • #784098
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Is there not a long-standing legal agreement in place with IFSC in relation to the office rentals there that was intended to provide an ongoing revenue stream that would subsidise a cultural/museum use in chq/Stack A? If so, what is to happen to the fund that has been built up and should grow ‘forever’ now that that building has gone commercial? Anybody know?

    • #784099
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Dublin is over-populated with museums? What foolishness is this? First, I don’t actually believe it and b) the main suggestion for the Stack A was a science museum and that is an attraction for children and for children Dublin is not over-populated with anything except the children themselves. The business the zoo does is amazing until you realize that’s it for Saturday morning attractions near the city centre. The government obviously agreed, since it is now supporting a children’s museum elsewhere, but as an excuse for loosing the levy, this is foolishness.

      I think her comment on the dock is annoying too, yes, relative to the original stupidy of filling it with rubble and occasionally putting a platform on it, yes, building the abbey might be a convenience, but a better plan would have been to not fill it with rubble in the first place.

      Pity you didn’t ask about travellers, I am sure it would have caught her by suprise, it is sad noone seems to be thinking about this.

    • #784100
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @trace wrote:

      Is there not a long-standing legal agreement in place with IFSC in relation to the office rentals there that was intended to provide an ongoing revenue stream that would subsidise a cultural/museum use in chq/Stack A? If so, what is to happen to the fund that has been built up and should grow ‘forever’ now that that building has gone commercial? Anybody know?

      There is indeed although i think the fund only comes on stream when a museum is built

    • #784101
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Just to clarify, when I mentioned the Beacon Tower I meant the one in the point village, name escapes me.

      I hadn’t forgotten about the Traveller question but she wrapped up proceedings beforoe I got the chance. The natives were getting a bit restless with regards to the saftey of the roads on the south quays with regards to no public transport or proper footpaths and trucks trundling up and down all day. She seemed a bity uncomfortable at the proposition that the area is an accident waiting to happen.

      There were lots of questions about the non availability of cash machines though. I guess each has their own priorities.

    • #784102
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Rusty Cogs: To clarify; I didn’t mean to imply I thought you were remiss in not asking about Travellers, just that it was a pity you didn’t get a chance. Thanks for letting us know what you heard at this meeting!

      I agree with the locals about the atm machines, when I lived in the area I found it wierd, all these banks and no cash. As for public transport, the buses are too irregular for people to bother using them, because noone bothers using them the frequency is low and hence they are irregular, its a chicken and egg. I assume that they will send some of the north strand buses down the east wall road, along the key and across the becket bridge when there is a becket bridge. I was suprised that there was no move to run the luas on from the point to the east point, bp a million people work there.

    • #784103
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @trace wrote:

      Is there not a long-standing legal agreement in place with IFSC in relation to the office rentals there that was intended to provide an ongoing revenue stream that would subsidise a cultural/museum use in chq/Stack A? If so, what is to happen to the fund that has been built up and should grow ‘forever’ now that that building has gone commercial? Anybody know?

      The fund will not grow “forever” as it has not been sèt up yet. It is only to be charged when a valid museum emerges. The levy, charged at €0.63 per sq ft, would have raised an estimated €1 million per annum.
      I think it is still technically possible for it to be set up. But it will not be in the location originally earmarked – Stack-A

      “In appraising options for the cultural element of the development a broad range of proposals was considered by the Docklands Authority and in particular, several museum type proposals were put to the Authority. This kind of operation had been anticipated by the Custom House Docks Development Authority who had arranged for a subvention payment for an IFSC based museum, in IFSC leases. The contribution would equate to circa €1 million p.a. if charged. It was decided that the various museum type proposals were insufficient in their power to attract visitors when operating in the Stack A centre, or were otherwise a poor fit to the overall project, or to the open bright form of the conserved building, and none was selected. No museum proposal was found to be secure financially even with the benefit of the available subvention. The subvention remains valid should a museum proposal emerge in the IFSC at a later date. “

      That was the situation in the press release in September, 2002

      Around about that time there was a lot of idle office space in the area, and in Dublin in general so it may have been felt that pushing this would make the docklands uncompetitive. The shift in policy was formalised when “Stack A Museum” which had been registered with the CRO (company registration office) on November 1999 was taken over by chq Events Ltd (registered Feb 2003)in 2003. The DDDA holds 100% of the issued share capital chq Events Ltd.

      I am not aware of any efforts to access the subvention since.

    • #784104
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Thanks, Lotts. Unbelievable, isn’t it?

    • #784105
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Just was down in the IFSC last nught, i have not been down there in a few months! I was actually looking at a house around Ballybough, my god what a contrast from the fenced-in IFSC. Run down does not even begin to describe it. However from Annesley (sp?) bridge it seemed that there is a vast and i mean vast amount of 5-6 storey sprawl edging its way out of the IFSC/Sherrif street area. It looked quite monstrous.

      Good to see the ‘Point village devepment area’ marked out on the on-street map of the IFSC area – and finally i know where everything else is in relation to each other.

    • #784106
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Cripes but it can be hard to keep up with all these threads on the Docklands! Anyway, this seems to be the most appropriate place for this, a letter to today’s Irish Times:

      Madam, – Writing about “cultivating a cultural dockland” (The Irish Times, September 5th), Brian O’Connell states that Stack A in the IFSC was earmarked for cultural activity.

      Stack A was designated the major cultural anchor and public amenity in the IFSC, as stipulated in the terms of the CHDDA Master Project Agreement 1988, and the Planning Schemes of 1994 and 1998, and the Dublin Docklands Area Master Plan 1997. A subvention or mandatory payment of €1.5 to €2 million a year, conditional on the installation of a museum in Stack A, is included in the lease agreements of all tenants of the IFSC. However, the cultural and monetary value of the Stack A site has vanished: it is now CHQ, a fully retail commercial centre, having been refurbished to the tune of €25 million of taxpayers’ money.

      DDDA planning schemes are exempt from the need to obtain planning permission under the Local Government Planning and Development Acts, 1963-1999 and the Planning and Development Act, 2000. This leeway allows a shift from stated objectives for specific land uses to more general ambiguities – “global objectives”. A factor of intentionality (“we intend to”) can dilute, alter, or cancel planning commitments to public amenities.

      On the basis of our experience in lobbying the CHDDA/DDDA for cultural amenities in the Docklands, we would be sceptical about future promises. So far, the benefit margin has tilted toward business and development interests. The resurrection of the museum element for the IFSC would be a contribution to the overall plan for cultural amenities and we devoutly look to this. – Yours, etc,

      ROSEMARY KEVANY,

      Discovery, (Dublin Interactive Science Centre Project),

      Killiney,

      Co Dublin.

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