Postmodern architecture in Ireland
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A good thing about postmodernism was that it help spawn a renewed respect for old buildings. Up until then Modernism saw the destruction of many an old town and classical gem.
@PDLL wrote:
The beauty of postmodernism is the difficulty in defining it – it is as slippery as an eel. I know in the world of literary, visual and musical arts, postmodernism does not necessarily involve any reference to classicism per se. Rather, it involves a rejection of master narratives (unlike modernism and victorianism) and a sense of frustration at the difficulty of ‘coming up’ with something new. To that end, it revels in re-hashing the past, in juxtaposing styles that may or may not sit comfortably together (consider, for example, the drawing together of different musical traditions and cultural images in Madonna’s new hit ‘Hung-up’). From my understanding of the issue, in architecture that can involve the sowing together of different architectural and cultural referents and artefacts, some of which can have an explicit connection with the architectural traditions of the local area but are not necessarily informed by any concept of classicism. :confused:
Replace the word ‘classicism’ in my last post with the word ‘architecture’- it’s what I meant originally anyway (the classicism thing was with reference to Mannerism).
I agree with you about the distinction being that between accident and design. Postmodernim relies on the knowing bending of rules or accretion of features of various periods, rather than on inadvertent juxtaposition and unintended deviation. That was why I disputed the Galway building’s credentials.
I’d also agree with the ‘frustration’ argument, but not with the rejection of master narratives. Or rather, postmodernists may claim to be rejecting master narratives but even in such a claim they are partly embracing them. Or did you mean that they are rejecting the concept of a master narrative? which I think is fairly true.One other thing- I don’t see Madonna as postmodern. Desperate, yes]art[/I] in her appropriation. So I think the point you make is a good one, but the artist you use to illustrate it is a bit wide of the mark.
@ctesiphon wrote:
That was why I disputed the Galway building’s credentials..
I accept your argument on the Galway building.
@ctesiphon wrote:
I’d also agree with the ‘frustration’ argument, but not with the rejection of master narratives. Or rather, postmodernists may claim to be rejecting master narratives but even in such a claim they are partly embracing them. Or did you mean that they are rejecting the concept of a master narrative? which I think is fairly true…
Also agree – most of the major tenets of postmodernism that also be seen as metanarratives in their own right – the fragmented self, the collapse of the boundary between high and low culture etc. These concepts have, ironically, become metanarratives in their own right.
On Madonna – need to look at her video again to study it more closely before I would comment in detail on this. Perhaps Talking Heads would be a better example – on a road to nowhere and all of that. You are a bit harsh on Madonna, though – I hope I am that agile in my late forties.
If you spent as much money on personal trainers and image consultants as she has I’ve no doubt you’d be in with a chance. 🙂
I’ll be happy if my mind is as agile as her body.@Graham Hickey wrote:
A monumental pile of an office building (influences of Webb’s Govt Buildings in there!) on Herbert Street, just opposite the Pepper Cannister
I walked into the city along Upper Mount Street today, and was surpised to find a building from 1980s London had been airlifted onto Herbert Street. That kind of postmodern pile is so rare here I had to look it up. It’s a Treasury building (unsurprisingly) and it’s by Arthur Gibney (surprisingly). It was built in 1997, but approved in 1991, which explains the style I suppose.
http://www.treasuryholdings.ie/investment/project_detail.asp?id=76&category=Office&cat=3
http://www.agparchitects.ie/commercial_info.htm
http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=0630/91Isn’t there a fairly prominent (and ugly) postmodern office building on the corner site at the Custom House end of Abbey Street? Across the road from Irish Life?
Truly truly hideous – even more depressing than Ulster Bank (4 storey) across the river.
1997 is astonishingly late for that Herbert St building Andrew – very surprising.
However Gibney being the architect wouldn’t surprise me at all – he seems to have made a u-turn not long after Fitzwilliam St. Much of his practice’s stuff in the 1990s has been in a vaguely Postmodern vein, and they’ve done conservation projects too I think.
Also not surprisingly it is his practice that are architects for the Harcourt Street plant shop site in Dublin, if that offers any indication as to what’s going to be erected there…
I tried to see the plans but they’ve been submitted and the application invalidated, and resubmitted and withdrawn thus far, so it’ll be interesting to see what they’ve come up with when it eventually comes to light…On a broader (very broad) vein, and picking up on the O’Donnell & Tuomey thread, generally speaking what is influencing architecture in Ireland today? Where are Irish architects getting their cues from? Is there a distinct lack of imagination in the average urban build in Irish towns and cities – is our, what is described up North as ‘straight line brigade’ merely playing about with grid formations and making use of standard conventions in glazing and ‘quality’ masonry and other materials, or is there something better going on?
As Venturi was mentioned earlier, it seems we have moved strongly away from his thinking regarding the separation of structure and decoration, and are increasingly moving into the realm of a ‘false’ structuralism, where structure is suggested, but by means of applied decorative cladding rather than exposure of the elements themselves, which is largely a big no no in Ireland at least at the minute.
Rambling off a bit, what would you describe this as – are we still in a post-modern (as oppposed to Postmodern) phase?
Or the monstrous Lavitts Quay – is that barely out of the Postmodern closet but mainly in the post-modern category?
Originally posted by DevinAnd what defines a ‘good’ building for people nowadays? It struck me that Scott’s assessment of things in that 1970s interview with Bowman shown recently are as relevant today as ever: “good proportion, quality materials and a user-friendly design”, a design that serves it purpose. But have perceptions of quality in proportion and materials changed, not to mention how a building should express itself?
Sorry this is all over the place, and I don’t claim to know what I’m talking about, but just a few notions…
Just looking at the photos nd thought didn’t Postmodernism throw up some really kitsch buildings….kinda Liberace sort of buildings.
The Alexander Hotel on Fenian Street (by Henry J Lyons, I think) is another fairly pure postmodern building, and very recent too – it opened in 1997.
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