Planning procedure

what problem are you having?

The exact definition of what constitutes a valid application has become more strict in the last few years with many applications being rejected for not conforming to the planning act.
can be frustrating

I heard somewhere that the rejection rate is about 20%. Don’t know how accurate that is

Mostly ‘cos people make the public notice too small and it can’t be read, or else they let it get blown away or torn.

20% of new applications I believe

and yes it is ridiculous

Teething problems really! – people will eventually get used to dotting all the i’s/ crossing T’s etc!. Its fair to say though that some councils are being a lot more judiciuos (strict) than others.
Some councils provide their own checklists with their planning applications etc. that they send out to people. & i think some can be sourced on the athourities websites. Other than that – its a matter of checking applications against the list given in the Planning Reg.s

Lads – the planning system works perfectly. So long as you are a rich developer with lots of brown paper bags, or alternatively you want to join in on the fantastic “ribbon” trend along the peripheries of so many towns (not Wicklow though!).

Smart remarks aside – it really does depend where you are intending to build. Some LA’s are totally anal, and other are – well not quite as anal.

getting something built is simply a matter of playing the system. suck up to planners in the initial stages. take their advice and tell them how original and benificial they are. then screw them and do a decent design, which they’ve already approved to their superiors based on what they’ve seen already.

planners consider themselves architects in chief in many cases. you just have to work with and then around them. the red tape is simply their way of saying “i’m important” and in a way they’re better off on their little pedastal.

“getting something built is simply a matter of playing the system. suck up to planners in the initial stages. take their advice and tell them how original and benificial they are. then screw them and do a decent design, which they’ve already approved to their superiors based on what they’ve seen already. “

Hmm.

You have a right to one pre-planning consultation. No planner will ever give any sort of assurances on what will get permission – they will only give advice or a general indication of approval / disapproval. Anyway, the larger authorities seem to rotate staff so often that you will rearly have the same planner dealing with a consultation and the following application.

Rejection rates in Dun Laighaire Rathdown were over 92% in the first few weeks of the new planning act coming in (March 2002).

The reason so many applications were rejected is that planning authorities have been given no discretion to accept applications which are even slightly incorrect – they must by law reject the application if anything is missing/incorrect. The purpose of this was to save LA time by stopping people using the planning dept as an unofficial planning consultant by lodging half-assed applications and having the authority advise them as to what should be done to make it valid.

The complexity of applications seems to be a result of trying to stop the dirty tricks that some developers get up to e.g. substituting similar looking site notices so that neighbours wouldn’t notice that a new application had been lodged.

I’m not sure if i’d use the word ‘right’ to have one pre=planning’ ‘consultation’ – what the Act does say is that a meeting can’t be unreasonably withheld – I know of at least one council that was considering to (reasonalbly!?) refuse to have any more meetings with somebody because apparently they were fruitless/ waste of time – in the end i dont’ think it came about (the refusal).

You’re right JL – i haven’t heard of planners giving absolute answers – meetings can help a development however to a certain extent. It depends on the council how hard it is to get a meeting….
SW101 ‘s opinion is i think, a bit too embittered (especially for a student) – i hope Sw101 you don;t end up fostering the same contempt for other professions – try to avoid the stereotypes as each area (engineers vs architects – planners, clients, builders etc) says something about eachother. Have you had a bad experience yourself or even worse have you picked up someone elses prejudices..?? (about planners).

i hope you never have to deal with cork county council. its amazing the contrast of attitudes between the city and county council planning divisions in cork. i’m not embittered at all. i dont think planning issues or difficulties are very important in terms of architecture. its simply an aspect of the loathsome task of being an architect in this country. dont worry yourself about ppl “fostering contempt” for other professions, that begins the day you step into a hole like bolton street and the immediate divisions between engineers, architects, and all other courses are established. even relations between architects and technicians seem pre-defined before enterring the workplace. i think having a healthy grudge against planning monkeys is no harm. you could hardly say the business of construction is the realm of gentlemen and camraderie. i just like getting stuff built

i know this thread was about planning procedures, which are set up for single houses rather than bigger projects so are totally useless when applied to industrial type projects, but dara h, as a student you haven’t experienced the complete and utter ignorance of planners. these geography students know about as much about architecture as a plank of wood knows about rocket science. i know not everyone of them are complete useless but these seem to be in a minority.
the funny thing is these people determine how the built environment in ireland is shaped. this system in absolutely wrong for a supposedly upmarket and rich ireland. the fact that it took ( and correct me if i’m wrong) 4 years for the “millenium” spike to get through to construction, is a disgrace. while the rest of the world manages to build all their “millenium” buildings on time we labour in the planning process. daft. anywhoo….
as regards the rivalary between the professions…..that’s healthy. i do admit some people take it too far but for me it’s a way to have some fun at the expense of my friends. don’t take it too seriously.

who said i was a student..?! I suppose one thing we have to remember is that planners are not normally just concerned with aesthetics – they often as not have other things on their mind such as land uses (& environment/ local economy public services etc etc.). A building may be pretty but they might not want it there in the first place – e.g. for other reasons such as obscuring entirely another (listed/ protected) building… Visual aesthetics are besides the point sometimes (profits by higher densities etc. are not often at the top of their considerations list either i’ll bet.)
I’m not taking the professional rivaly to heart – better to try and work together than apart & just agree to disagree otherwise….!
Yep, i;ve come across plenty of engineers, architects, tech’s, planners, builders etc & yes – engineers & planners aren;t generally the most flamboyant of characters i’ll admit, watch your back with builders & architects – watch out for them too.

sorry i thought you said earlier you were a student. as an architect it’s the developers that have control of the building trade. it’s all money driven. the rest of us are being paid to do what they want.
i don’t know about your statement about aesthetics. at the end of the day that is how most of the public will rate a particular building and letting a geography graduate decide is just plain crazy..