pairc ui chaoimh
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In fairness, kite’s earlier post, said that Cahill was one of those to vote against when the original motion was put.
I notice that Cllr Sean Martin was on the front-page of Monday’s Echo calling for PuC to be made available to all sports. That would be the same Sean Martin who voted against it being a condition of the land transfer.
Now that is a truly two-faced politician.
@jungle wrote:
In fairness, kite’s earlier post, said that Cahill was one of those to vote against when the original motion was put.
I notice that Cllr Sean Martin was on the front-page of Monday’s Echo calling for PuC to be made available to all sports. That would be the same Sean Martin who voted against it being a condition of the land transfer.
Now that is a truly two-faced politician.
Yep, the same Sean Martin that sat in council for years congratulating the officials and manager for the great docklands proposal, the same Sean that is now reported in the Echo as saying he felt the docklands project was never a runner anyway!!
The County Board of the GAA were not long kicking him back into his box last night by stating that opening PuC to other sports would not happen.(Front page Evening Echo)
@kite wrote:
Yep, the same Sean Martin that sat in council for years congratulating the officials and manager for the great docklands proposal, the same Sean that is now reported in the Echo as saying he felt the docklands project was never a runner anyway!!
To paraphrase – “Irish people don’t want to live in apartments anyway”. If he opened his eyes he’d realise that the City Centre was packed to the rafters with young europeans who are working in Cork due to the ongoing expansion of multi-lingual contact centres in the City. Anyone trying to get a decent apartment in town will be aware of this.
When the commercial end of the Docklands is underway, a large part of it will undoubtedly be multi-lingual contact centres and related enterprise, and the 20,000 residents won’t be long following. Nobody said the 20,000 were going to be exclusively Irish! These people will need recreational space a lot more than some “centre of excellence”:rolleyes:
@jungle wrote:
In fairness, kite’s earlier post, said that Cahill was one of those to vote against when the original motion was put.
I notice that Cllr Sean Martin was on the front-page of Monday’s Echo calling for PuC to be made available to all sports. That would be the same Sean Martin who voted against it being a condition of the land transfer.
Now that is a truly two-faced politician.
That’s what I really thought was galling, when I saw that headline.
The council were in a position to demand multi-sport usage, or tell the GAA to go and jump. Instead, they caved to the GAA’s demand for more land for the centre of excellence and caved again in not requiring multi-sports usage as a precondition.
What they could have mandated, now they’re meekly begging for in the papers. 😡
The way they’re going, next thing they’ll be paying the GAA to take the land from them.
@who_me wrote:
The way they’re going, next thing they’ll be paying the GAA to take the land from them.
that isn’t going to be far from reality: the market price now will be less than the price the city council paid for the showgrounds initially
Looks like matters may come to a head next Monday.
Well done Mr. O’Leary for asking the tough questions.:)http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/councillors-may-face-legal-action-over-gaa-vote-123311.html
I am not too sure where I stand on this one, the more I look at it the more I veer towards Joe Gavin’s point of view.
One question I have though is that before the CPO of the showgrounds I was under the presumption that a good junk of this land was automatically going to the GAA, nowhere did I read that it might not because of the public park. Anyone else have this impression? Or was I relying too much on local media to highlight this fact for me??
There seems to be 2 strands of thought on this, one it is only 4 acres what is the big deal when the park will be over 20 acres still and the other that it is needed for the park. I would be happy to give the GAA the land for free if it was open to other sports and no centre of excellence (that can go on the straight rd) but selling land that was CPO’d for a park is madness when the centre of excellence can go anywhere and it won’t be opened up.
Big Cork GAA fan but I hate the backwardness of the CCC.
@Leesider wrote:
Big Cork GAA fan but I hate the backwardness of the CCC.
Can’t really say I’m a big GAA fan myself (not anti-GAA at all, just not a regular fan) – and I have to admit that Cork GAA have been the most successful sporting organisation by far in the city and county, both on and off the field.
In this case, there’s the potential for a mutually beneficial agreement: Cork GAA have a stadium, and need land to modernise it and add facilities. Cork City Council have land, and want a multi-sport stadium in the city. Instead of both sides compromising a little, but benefitting, the CCC just capitulated completely – to the degree their plans for a park are compromised, it’ll cost them money, and it may now land them in legal trouble.
On another note – and I really hope I’m just being a crazy conspiracy theorist here – I hope if the land is sold to the GAA for the centre of excellence, that a permanent centre is actually built there. And it’s not just a plan to acquire land adjacent to the stadium for the long term – remember the GAA wanted to build a hotel next to the stadium too, if memory serves.
@Leesider wrote:
I am not too sure where I stand on this one, the more I look at it the more I veer towards Joe Gavin’s point of view.
One question I have though is that before the CPO of the showgrounds I was under the presumption that a good junk of this land was automatically going to the GAA, nowhere did I read that it might not because of the public park. Anyone else have this impression? Or was I relying too much on local media to highlight this fact for me??……………
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2.3 acres was always on offer to the GAA for the redevelopment of PuC during the CPO process.
I am a big GAA fan myself; but this county board land grab is a step too far for me.
Good luck to Cllr. O’Leary next Monday.was looking at scott tallon walker’s website, after reading a hotel of theirs was nominated for world architecture award.
they had this image of a plan for the atlantic quarter in the docklands, and someone had stuck 2 new roofs on Pairc Ui Chaoimh!
what do you think?
obviously, the GAA say they are putting a 2 tier stand on the southern side, but same roof could be applied?
practical?
cost?
opinions?Well, it seems the park for the docklands will definitely be 2 small disconnected parks rather than 1 unified area.
The Evening Echo carried a story a few nights ago confirming that 6.82 acres of land in the Showgrounds will be sold to the GAA for €1.7 million.
They also carried a plan of the layout of a new pitch situated south of Pairc Ui Chaoimh, as well as a basic drawing on an inside page, comparing the size of the new 2-tier stand to the current covered stand.I will try to upload a picture of this later
[attachment=0:1muozaxs]IMG_1884.jpg[/attachment:1muozaxs]layout of new pitch alongside current stadium
comparison of heights of current and proposed stands
this seems incredible, but a straightforward folding of the picture seems to indicate that the back of the new stand is three times the height of the current stand, and is 4 times the height if you include the roof!!
i know these are the most basic of basic pictures, but that is scarcely believable
Interesting, thanks. I’d assume that image is just a rough guide, but at least it shows the plans are ambitious, which I like!
From the first image, it seems the new stand extends about 2/3 of the way around the pitch, is that correct? Is that because of the Marina & Atlantic Pond behind that end of the ground?
@who_me wrote:
Interesting, thanks. I’d assume that image is just a rough guide, but at least it shows the plans are ambitious, which I like!
From the first image, it seems the new stand extends about 2/3 of the way around the pitch, is that correct? Is that because of the Marina & Atlantic Pond behind that end of the ground?
Sorry the size of the upload is so small. i have attached a larger image here, and a more detailed explanation of each part as the text on the image is too small.
[attachment=0:230xfzxh]IMG_1884_2.jpg[/attachment:230xfzxh]
The light blue going around 2/3 to 3/4 of the ground is a “15m wide spectator circulation”. it does stop at the atlantic pond end, which i find a little strange. Perhaps it isn’t part of the stadium as such, and the existing parking area behind the blackrock terrace will perform a similar function for the new stadium?
The new two-tier stand is the red structure, with capacity increasing to 16500 (up 7043).
Article states that phase one is construction of this stand, creation of all-weather pitch with floodlights and covered 1000 seater stand on the monaghan road/south side, coloured pink on the image.Article further states that phase 2 is the replacement of the uncovered stand and both terraces. From a pure spectators point of view, this is the news with which i am most happy. I had feared they would only refurbish the other 3 sides, and anyone who has been on a full terrace in PuiC knows how dangerous they are. Article states that capacity of stand will increase from 10000 to 11000, while capacity of terraces will both decrease by 758 to 11250.
The City End Terrace is partly coloured yellow on the picture. There is small print in the picture stating that “Marina Hall to be acquired”, (and i assume demolished). Whether this is for a deeper terrace, for the circulation area, or both is unclear.
Article states “pitch itself will not be changed”
The red lines to the north mark a new road, (i assume a diversion of the path which currently follows the old railway line) 7.35m wide.
175m of the stream there is to be culverted.The yellow areas to the east and west of the training pitch show a “vendor, ticket and programme sales area” and “landscaped access routes”. Some of this area appears to now be sold to the GAA, while another area west of the city end terrace is to be “licensed to Pairc Ui Chaoimh”.
Article says “a portion of land will also be identified for possible parking use, that could be leased to the GAA and developed, at their cost, into a carpark”. Hard to know if this or the training pitch is the worst news from a public park point of view, but i suppose it could be ok if it was landscaped appropriately and accessible to park-users to park on on non-match days.
Thanks rofbp! I thought from the smaller image the blue in the plan view corresponded with the new ‘blue’ stand in the cross-section, and the red with the old red stand.
In that case, colour me a lot less impressed. Hopefully that’s just phase 1 though, and the rest of the ‘bowl’ will be similarly completed. It’d be great for once to have one covered, complete bowl stadium; unlike Croke Park, Lansdowne Rd or any other Irish stadium.
On a more cynical note again: what are the council up to? They CPO land from the MAS to build an ‘essential’ park. They then decide the park isn’t that essential, and sell the land to the GAA, at a significant loss. And the land in question isn’t for an ‘essential’ stadium, but a rather less than essential Excellence Centre.
If I wanted to be REALLY cynical, I’d suggest the reason for the Excellence Centre is to “reserve” land to be used at a later date for a hotel/conference centre. If that land had been used as part of the park, it would be nightmare ever to get permission to build on it. However now, if the GAA build this hotel in 10-20 years time, they’ll claim it’s on their own land so there’ll be much less opposition. :shh:
@who_me wrote:
Hopefully that’s just phase 1 though, and the rest of the ‘bowl’ will be similarly completed. It’d be great for once to have one covered, complete bowl stadium; unlike Croke Park, Lansdowne Rd or any other Irish stadium.
The article does confirm that the other three sides are to be rebuilt in phase 2. i had thought (feared) that they would merely refurbish them. I had heard that the terraces will be rebuilt as all-seater stands. The reported reduction in capacity there would support that. They are drawn in a similar layout to the new stand on the uncovered stand side, so i assume a level of uniformity will apply to those 3 sides, but don’t get your hopes up for a covered bowl: i had heard those three sides will be uncovered, and of course they will only have one tier, while the first phase will be 2 tier.
On a more cynical note again: what are the council up to? They CPO land from the MAS to build an ‘essential’ park. They then decide the park isn’t that essential, and sell the land to the GAA, at a significant loss. And the land in question isn’t for an ‘essential’ stadium, but a rather less than essential Excellence Centre.
i think it is pretty clear that the council planners don’t want to lose the park, but the politicians are all for it, as reflected in the vote a few months ago. i assume the planners are just making the best of a bad lot, and figure its better to cooperate on a good design and agree on some common principles for the leased area than to have a disjointed development of the area.
the centre of excellence is required, but i don’t know anyone who thinks it should be right next to pairc ui chaoimh. it would make much more sense to develop it on the outskirts of the city, where land was cheaper, and access was better. it would make even more sense to develop it in conjunction with some club on the city limits, Bishopstown or Douglas on the south side, Blarney, Delaney’s or Sarsfields on the north of the city.You want proof that it isn’t primarily a centre of excellence: why does it need a 1000 seater stand?
If I wanted to be REALLY cynical, I’d suggest the reason for the Excellence Centre is to “reserve” land to be used at a later date for a hotel/conference centre.
It is certainly a land grab, but i wouldn’t credit the county board with as much foresight as you do. I think they just want it for parking, and i guarantee there will be cars parked on this centre of excellence’s all weather pitch for every big game in PuiC
Thanks again for the info.
At least the entire ground is being rebuilt, though it’s a shame if it’s not all covered. Why is it that we seem to do everything by half measures in this country?
I’d agree the centre of excellence doesn’t need to be right in that spot, adjacent to the stadium, which is why I’m a bit suspicious about it. IIRC, there were reports back at the start of the process that a hotel/conference centre were part of the GAA’s plans, so it’s wouldn’t surprise me if it were still part of their plans. I can’t fault them for taking care of their own interests, but it would be a crying shame if the park were to be significantly impacted just to build a (private) hotel rather than more public use.
Things have moved on somewhat regarding this redevelopment:
Scott Tallon Walker have been appointed as project architects, it was announced by the Cork County Board:
http://www.gaacork.ie/taggedNews/101247/99/páirc_u%C3%ADchaoimh_design_team_announcedI laugh because 16 months ago, i posted a picture on this thread from the Scott Tallon Walker website showing Pairc Ui Chaoimh with 2 new roofs, rendered as part of an image of a Docklands development.
http://www.stwarchitects.com/project-information.php?p=07090We won’t get an AVIVA stadium, but if we ended up with a Thomand Park, I would be very happy
EDIT: not sure why gaacork.ie link isn’t displaying correctly
Should also have included that it was decided before Christmas not to redevelop as a 60000 seater stadium, but to redevelop in or around the current capacity: 45000
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