Office blocks @ Kilmainham Gaol & Royal Hospital

Opponents of a controversial office block planned for a site opposite
Kilmainham Gaol in Dublin are stepping up their campaign today with a
protest outside the prison.

The protest, which starts at 3 p.m., is likely to cause some traffic
disruption at the start of the bank holiday weekend.

The Friends of Kilmainham group yesterday lodged an appeal to An Bord
Pleanala against the planned development, claiming that it will
overshadow historic buildings in the area.

Dublin Corporation granted planning permission for the development last
month, subject to 22 conditions. These include the preservation of any
remains found on the site, which the corporation says is of “immense
archaeological importance”.

The development is designed to provide almost 400,000 square feet of
office space, a three-level underground car-park for 600 cars, and three
retail units totalling almost 5,000 square feet. It is being proposed by
well-known Dublin property developers Mr Johnny Ronan and Mr Richard
Barrett through a company called Charmside Developments.

Mr John Callery, chairman of the Friends of Kilmainham, said the
development would “completely overshadow” a number of historic sites in
the area. These included the gaol, Kilmainham courthouse, the
Richmond Gate of the Royal Hospital (IMMA) and the Irish National
Memorial Gardens along the Liffey.

Kilmainham Gaol dates from 1796 and has strong associations with Irish
history. The leaders of the 1916 Rising, including Padraig Pearse, were
executed there. Last year, the museum attracted almost 200,000
visitors.

I see posters up around the locality saying ‘Save the Gaol’…..when in fact there is nothing to be done to the jail itself….(Ok maybe if they installed a more effective alarm system)….Tthe proposed development is across the road on a site that was never in it’s history an attraction….but just factories and warehouses. Give the development a chance ..it could be regarded as a brownfield site….could it not….anything would be better than what’s there already.

True……but a compromise must be met ….you don’t want to end up either with something ‘Safe’ and mediocre…you know like a two storey red-brick eclectic fantasy.

…to add does the new development add substance and give the area a city-like quality.

[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 23 March 2001).]

OK……although the building style may be debatable…. it’s on a par with what’s going on elsewhere throughout the city but it is not as bad as a lot of recent schemes that could be mentioned in the heart of the city. It is a difficult one…..blending architecture that holds a sympathetic view of it’s established surrounding areas with something that’s new and radical and of the time….without ending up with something bland and mediocre.
But as you mentioned the developments of past saw the heart torn out of the city many intact old buildings were torn down to make way for the modern buildings……..
……but not in this case, the proposed site is a ‘field’ with one warehouse/factory.
Besides developments need to be of a more substantial nature today ….curbing the urban sprawl. The appartment complex wiil bring people into the area too ….people with money….A corporation development would be a far worse fate would it not.
Also the Gaol itself will not be touched, one would think that the Gaol itself is to be demolished and perish the thought. The ‘development to be’ is across the road and will be act as an anchor point balancing the Gaol.
I would’nt worry about views from the magazine fort…it’s not that spectacular in the first place….a bit of height is needed….and well if you compare the photos of before and after there is not that much of an infringement….
The John’s Road too acts more like the gateway instead,a dual carriageway that cuts savagely in part through the viking cemetary and the Memorial Gardens with an overblown bridge junction. The view of the houses is not a particularly interesting view in the first place either from the bridge,is it …with the railway line running by below.
Our architectural heritage is precious,the bit we have (and have left) but I think there is a zealous streak of anti-development
running through everyone today (read the visitors guest book on the site)….and our little bit of modest architectural heritage does not merit a halt or hinderance to new developments….because of shadowing, or whatever as trivial.The city must live…

[This message has been edited by GregF (edited 22 May 2001).]

I agree it is okay, but if a bit drab and a copper roof could be fabulous. However, the main objection seems to be the height. The height looks about right to me. Four or five stories is what is needed to anchor the space in front of the gaol and it wouldn’t intrude on the gardens of the Royal Hospital either. It is a pity the new apartment blocks between the formal garden of the royal hospital and Phoenix park are so awful, again there is no problem with the height, but they look terrible.

I must say, Kilmainham is a pleasure, mostly because the topography is so interesting and the various new developments are all piled on top of each other in an interesting way. I think it is a bit precious to call Kilmainham village the last urban village though. I live in Fairview, which certainly wouldn’t top anybody list of urban villages (Ranelagh, Stoneybatter, Phibsborough) and it seems a lot like a village to me and I grew up in a (rural) village.

Having perused the description of the proposal for office and development park by Charmside LTD. I doubt how any Architect or planner could be a party to it and retain any vestige of integrity. THe proposal flies in the face of what development should mean in 2001 Ireland and is more reminiscent of Wood Quay twenty years ago, where a historic location was desecreted in the name of development (i.e the twin towers of Mr.Stephenson) destroying views of Christchurch from the river and over- shadowing the medieval street pattern for evermore. It is doubtful if anybody claiming a sensitivity or understanding of the Urban form would or possibily could defend such an ugly apparation beside a medieval Cathedral today. Development means more than mere functionalism and expediency, as appears to be the case with the Charmside proposal in Kilmainham, it must mean more than massification of office space in a non Central Bussiness District or Industrial/Technology Park, it must be in harmony and not clash with the Aesthetic and historic elements of such a unique overlap of different traditions of our country as represented by the Gaol and Royal Hospital. Development I beleive is about fullfilling the potential of an area and facilitating the socio-economic wellbeing of society at large.This would mean taking an imaginative look at the possibilities for such a historic and topographically rich location as this site at Kilmaimham is. Development must spread its view near, far and wide. By its nature it must be concerned with the present or near present import and future impact of its works. This area of the city, let us not forget that we are talking about city location which has a considerable amount of long term residents and newcomers, has needs pertaining to the nature of the National Monuments and indeeds needs of the above said local community. In other words development should addresss cultural aspects when they present themselves so clearly and concentrate itself on these aspects and on how they could be enhanced and not skirt around them as is the case with the Charmside Proposal. The future well being locally and nationally will be roughshod over if this proposal by Charmside goes ahead. It will sound the death knell for future of Kilmainham, in an era when a more culturally appropriate and economically far sighted Creation is financialy viable. The potential for the area is almost limitless with views across the river to the expanse of the Phoenix Park and the long vista to the Royal Hospital. Any planner must surely identify the potential for long term Cultural tourism as representated by the juncture of the magnificient Royal Hospital, the atmospheric Gaol not to mention the possibilies for the present courthouse, if it was restored and received a change of use after its long service. Any architect with some fertile thoughts could conjure up a a model edifice to do justice to the Ireland of today on the old Rowntree site, one in which views of the Phoenix Park and River would be reciprocated by views of a stylish and thought provoking development, complementry in scale to the present buildings and adding a modern dimension to the area whilst serving a usefull service to tourists, national and international and the local communtiy,e.g a Hotel. The quantity of tourism in Ireland is doubtlessly keeping the tourist Industry very happy but in the future visitors to Irelands may well be more discerning, more demanding and therefore a sensitive and properly thought out development is what’s required on this site. The massive scale and density of Office space as proposed by Charmside is totally contrary to the long term benefit of not only Kilmainham but the whole nation. The present proposal if it went ahead would eliminate views across to the park which still can be enjoyed, for thought the present Rowentree building is no work of Art it does not crowd out everything else in sight. I see that Charmside have designated there application as ‘AN Office and Technology Park”, I do not see any earthtly reason for locating such ‘park’ amongst the Culturally Significant Structures of a rich and diverse past.By labelling a proposal ‘Technology Park’ does not turn an Area into a Futuristic Zone where other dimensions of culturel life must bend to a brave new world, we are surely not living in some cultural desert berefit of architectural and social referece points both to our hertiage and modern architectural endeavours on the continent. I can understand how Property Developers like the directors of Charmside wish to build on every square inch of the site as the intention of ‘Real Estate’is to make as large and as quick a return on investment as possible. They presumbly do not work under any other constraints, there is the world of competition, the searching out of lucrative site before the competition. It would be more normal for such sites to be restricted to where they belong, in a real Technology Park like in Stillorgan or out on the Naas Rd. However planners, developers and society at large must be concerned by any emphasis on quick profit which will adversely affect the social fabric and cultural integrity of the area and the nation. Such an Office and Technology Park at such a scale on an elevated position will fullfull only the aim of quick profit, little if anything in the way of services for our most valuable resource Tourism and will cast a negative shadows for decades to come on such a potentially rich location. New thoughts and ideas are required on this matter from the Architectural community to counter such an ll-conceived proposal as set out by Charmside if we are to start beleiving in their vision for Ireland in the 21st Century.

I will have a look at the Green st. area this weekend if I get a chance. If I remember right some form of urban renewal took place around the Fourt Courts in the 19th century with clearance of tenements inorder to improve sanitation in the city resutling in some decent housing done in a planned manner.