O’ Connell Street, Dublin
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Guys relax !
Ok, there needs to be a bit more co operation between the relevant authorities regarding the developments on O Connell St but as an Irishman living in Edinburgh for the past 7 years can I say it gladens the heart to see we are finally building a city which can take it`s place on the world stage (as opposed to the Dublin I left back then)
Anyone got any other photos re the ongoing developments in O Connell St? in particular inr elation to phase 2 of the IAP?There were some posted here John:
https://archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=38863&postcount=1723
and here:
https://archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=39462&postcount=1750
Graham, I’d strongly recommend a short email to the O’Connell Street project about this.
I’d imagine they would be just as annoyed about this considering the attention to detail that has characterised the project so far. This is most likely a case of the Lighting Dept doing this off their own steam.
On a different subject, I notice that Daniel O’Connell’s head is already covered with bird sh**. They were going to stick a pin in it to put off the perching pigeons but that didn’t happen.Chances are this is covered deep within this thread somewhere but what ever happend to those kiosks that were supposed to be installed on the street last July?
Does anybody have any pictures of them by any chance?
@Graham Hickey wrote:
What! – that latter journey is just a farce!
But yes it is getting very congested no on the Upper northbound lanes, with the traffic piling up at the Parnell St lights.On another issue – I really cannot believe this, really and truly cannot get over what has happened on O’Connell Bridge.
Okay nobody has died, and the sky hasn’t fallen in, but it comes a close third to these – the various blown bulbs in the O’Connell Bridge lamp standards have been replaced with ORANGE bulbs! Can you believe the ignorance?!! It’s unreal!😮 Huh?
That really makes my blood boil. Graham, maybe you should send an email or letter to the relevant department including some of your points above. It’s unlikley that they would do anything about it but you might get some sort of explanation out of them.
@johnbo wrote:
Chances are this is covered deep within this thread somewhere but what ever happend to those kiosks that were supposed to be installed on the street last July?
Does anybody have any pictures of them by any chance?
I think that one of the kiosks is currently hidden amongst the building site that is lower O’C street. Last I saw, it was just a big concrete block with no façade. I’m sure at least one of them with be up and running by next summer.. although, have you seen the state of the kiosks on Grattan Bridge? One of them is in terrible disrepair. The fold out canopy is hanging to pieces, held together with duct tape :rolleyes: I hope this won’t be the same for the O’C kiosks.
Would this evenings crash be related to the fact that the road and path surface camoflage each other, thus making the definition of pedestrian and vehicular very hazy (with reference to the GPO Plaza)?
I am supised that, on a street where the average mph would be at best 5mph due to the traffic volumes, that a crash would happen at all. Really the Council should get rid of all traffic off this stretch completely – it is not impossible by any standards. When (if) the Macken Street bridge is completed, the council should consider, as a start, diverting all traffic away from the part of O’Connell street from Abbey Street to Cathedral Street.
The new lighting of O’Connell Street is rubbish, not individual to the location whatsoever- I’ve seen these lamps dotted around the city at new developments – debunking any idea that these lamps were created just for the O’Connell Street project. It has a very temporary feel – I wouldn’t be suprised if it is replaced again in 10 years.
This afternoons serious RTA at the Nth Earl St/O Connell St Junction serves to fire a warning shot across the bows of both City Council and An Garda Siochana.
The basic design and structure of this crossing is totally wrong,given the volume of Vehicular Traffic continuing to utilise the street.
The lack of clear deliniation between Traffic Space and Pedestrian space is all too obvious.
Last Monday night as I drove Northbound I met a young Oriental chap walking backwards in the midle of the street as he attempted to get the Tower of Light aligned in his Camera Viewscreen,the poor lad was totally oblivious to the fact that he was on a Roadway and almost jumped out of his skin when I alerted him with a toot of the horn.
Given that the O Connell St IAP which many had thought was agreed is now looking somewhat different in scope and detail perhaps it could now be argued that the “Piazza” in front of the GPO should be revisited with a view towards ensuring public safety.
In the light of todays accident It will be interesting also to speculate how long it will now be before some Legal Road Markings appear at the Bank of Ireland/College Green perestrian crossing which is now almost two months without them.
There is little doubt but that O Connell St as it is presently structured is a VERY dangerous environment for everybody and the question has to be asked as to why the City Council and Garda Authorities have been prepared to sanction an INCREASE in the number of Bus movements along the street when the available space is so seriously compromised.
Public Safety SHOULD have been paramount in the planning phase of the IAP works,however we now see that it appears to have not even been on the agenda…
Once again a few more questions for the City Manager,his Director of Traffic and the Garda Asst Commissioner in charge of the Dublin Met Region…….. 🙁A sad incident above all – for anyone who hasn’t heard two women it seems were struck down by a bus at the Earl St junction at about 4pm yesterday. Both survived but one is in a serious condition. Dublin Bus say the pedestrian lights were red at the time.
I think the fact that they are tourists says it all – being unfamiliar with the area they seem to have assumed the roadway was part of the pavement. As described above, I too have seen people walk straight out onto the road and then jump back in again upon realising it is not pavement. This only seems to happen with people coming up from North Earl St, perhaps visiting for the first time from Connolly Station. Not knowing the nature of O’Cll St they just walk straight out from the huge expanse of granite around the Joyce Statue onto the same granite surface of the roadway.
Not only have I seen many people do this, even my own flippin sister did it when encountering the new layout for the first time! – again from Nth Earl St.Obviously the layout is much clearer if you are on O’Cll St itself, but not arriving for the first time via Henry or Earl Streets.
Something must be done about this. Incidentally this is also the expanse of granite roadway that so dilutes the visual impact of the plaza, whatever about the safety implications. Likewise there’s a stretch south of the Plaza on both lanes that ought to be removed. Black tarmac is entirely appropriate, and a heck of a lot safer.Fully agreed Alec about the amount of buses on the street now – it is absolutely ridiculous; at a given time it is entirely possible for there to be upwards of 15 buses standing about on the street, including at the new Plaza bus stop of course :rolleyes:
Hopefully this is temporary…
However something that Dublin Bus most certainly do have something to answer for is their many drivers who insist on trying to get past the Spire pedestrian crossing lights but suffice to say fail miserably, plonking themselves slap bang in the middle of the second or third most busy crossing in the State – it is joke how often it happens. And these guys (allbethey a minority) call themselves professional drivers…
Likewise the speed of some buses racing southbound on Upper O’Connell St to make the lights at the Spire crossing is also completely unacceptable. I’m not for a moment suggesting that’s what happened today but it is an accident waiting to happen, with or without swanky granite paving.And yes, College Green, months on at this stage has still yet to be lined:
From Ireland.com:
Accident prompts review of O’Connell Street plaza area
Dublin City Council will review the safety of the plaza surrounding the Spire in O’Connell Street after two women were hit by a Dublin bus at a pedestrian crossing yesterday. Fiona Gartland, Tim O’Brien and Olivia Kelly report
A double-decker bus operated by Dublin Bus struck the women as they crossed from North Earl Street at the pedestrian lights near the Spire around 4.15pm.
One of the women, who is 60, was taken to St James’s Hospital with serious head injuries. The other woman ( 56) was taken to the Mater hospital with minor injuries. Both were on holiday from England and had travelled from Mayo for a day’s shopping. Six passengers were on the 145 bus, which was travelling from Mountjoy Square to Bray.
It appears the two women stepped off the footpath at a point where it is difficult to tell the road from the kerb. As part of the O’Connell Street area plan, roadspace has been narrowed and the roadway has been raised to the same level as the footpath to facilitate pedestrian access.
People at the scene said the “boulevard effect” may have made the line where the pavement ended and the roadway began more difficult to determine.
A spokesman for the city council said the traffic lights were equipped with an audio signal and the area in which the footpath merges with the roadway was studded with silver discs.
The spokesman said the council would examine the issues this morning. Coincidentally, Dublin city councillors voted yesterday to reduce the speed limit on many city-centre streets to 30kph in an effort to reduced pedestrian fatalities.
A team lead by Sgt Brian Cullen examined the scene along with an investigation unit from Dublin Bus. Gardaà examined marks on the left-hand corner of the bus and measured the distance between the front of the bus and a pair of red sandals that remained on the crossing. Insp Gus Keane from Store Street station said there were a large number of witnesses.
A Dublin Bus spokeswoman said eyewitnesses reported “the driver was driving correctly through a green light”. She said the driver had said “he was driving slowly through the light.” He had given a statement to gardaà and there was no question of a suspension in what was “a very unfortunate accident”.
-ends-
Many of us have feared this for a while. I don’t want to score points from something as tragic as this, except to hope that lessons are learned and improvements are made.
The only thing I would say is that there is no clear delineation between traffic and pedestrian spaces at many squares and plazas in many italian, french and spanish cities
There must be at least some onus on people to observe what’s going on around them
As a pretty obvious for instance, traffic and pedestrian lights should suggest pretty strongly that cars/buses are likely to be in the area.
I think perhaps we’re being a little quick in blaming the redevelopment before we know exactly what happened.😮 That is crazy re: College Green, It would take half an hour to line that road. In Wicklow County, where I live, the Council regularly fill and resurface roads and then leave them without any lines.. Madness!!
The news that DCC are “Reviewing the Safety” of the Henry St-O Connell St-North Earls St junction is indeed welcome,as would be hearing of the Resignation of several senior officials in the same News Piece.
Are we to believe now that the entire O Connell St IAP was scribbled out on the back of a cigarette packet by some newly arrived Polish labourers (Who might just have made a better fist of it ).
This is a Flagship project of not only Civic but also National importance yet it has been handled as if it were some surburban back-garden being crazy-paved by the Cobblelocking King or somesuch.
For Crying out loud the present City Management have managed to shrug off several fatalities and heaven knows how many serious injury RTA`s in the area between Westmoreland St and Parnell Square.
At No Time have the authorities even attempted to put a Public Transport Plan in place which would allow for the SAFE conduct of Bus Business within the area which is a Dei-Facto BUILDING SITE.
Instead Dublin Bus have been facilitated,encouraged,required to push ever more vehicles per hour through what is in effect a trecherous egg-timer.
No attempt has been made either by Dublin Bus or the so-called authorities to ensure a safer more controlled flow either by diverting routes AWAY from O Connell St altogether or by reducing dwell time at the OCS Bus Stops by eliminating time consuming Cash Fare transactions.
In addition NO Bus/Coach operator should be permitted to Operate Long Dwell Airport Coach or City Tour services from this street AT ANY TIME whilst the present situation is in existance.
Instead,More routes than ever are now being stuffed into O Connell St in an attempt to prove that Paddy is thick and stupid enough to get a Quart into a Pint pot.
The vehicles concerned are now Longer,Wider and of far higher passenger capacity than ever before and yet the City`s Civic Intelligentia are of the belief that all of these EXTRA vehilcles will fit into the REDUCED amount of Roadspace without any problem..Are these people actually Professionally Qualified at all or merely escapees from some Lunatic Asylum on Wood Quay ?
The City Council/Garda Siochana/Bus Operators have had far too many “Wake-Up Calls” along this street.
Bus and Coach drivers have been attempting to raise serious safety concerns through both internal means and in the media all to no avail.
It appears that the Senior Professional Branch of The Citys Administration are not amenable to having their plans called into question by a bunch of Blue Collar Bus Drivers and the like,some of whom never even went to college.
This level of Autocracy IS now resulting in a vastly increased exposure to danger amongst the ordinary people who use the City Centre on a daily basis.
The recently introduced revised Health and Safety at Work acts SHOULD be used to force the City Council to recognize and adhere to its legal responsibilities to the Citizens but it`s doubtful if it ever will as the entire City Management structure is already closing ranks in an attempt to cover their widely exposed backsides on this one.
It really is an infuriating and depressing scenario as the thrust of Official Dublin is to lay-off the blame on the Individual Busdriver or anybody else who can be made to fit the picture as long as it preserves the sanctity of the “Professionals Know Best” theory of Civic Management.
I fully accept Graham`s point on the Crossing Point at the Spire,however It would be a worthwhile excercise to take a few trips along the street and stay near the front of the bus to observe the ACTUAL situation which prevails at this point,particularly when traffic is slow moving.
Remember the Bus is some 11.3 mtrs LONG and 2.55 Mtrs Wide so wherever it is stopped it is going to be in somebodys way.
Additionally the already discussed vague nature of where EXACTLY the pedestrian crossing points are remains open to debate as does the requirement for pedestrians to adhere to Green/Red man signals.
For ANY busy Traffic/Pedestrian crossing to function SAFELY a high degree of CLARITY and SPACE is required for both Vehicles and Pedestrians…There is precious little of this in O Connell St at present and no sign of any official recognition that it is required…Ah well perhaps the Safety Consultants which,no doubt will be recruited by DCC to tell them what they want to hear will manage to recommend a bit of black Tarmac and some White Lines as a start…….
And lets stay away from comparison with Italy,France,Spain or Timbucktou for that matter as they are NOT valid in any way shape or form to Dublin in its present state…If we need to compare then how about looking at ANY mid-size UK Town/City/Conurbation which will more than likely feature Clear and Strong methods of seperating moving 16 Tonne vehicles from rambling shoppers…! 😡mmmmmm…….here in Milano cars don’t even stop when you are ON the pedestrian crossing.
A s regards O’Connell Street I realize the top end is all clutter and mess, buses pushing through and the like. But pedestrians cannot just be wandering around heedless. In some German cities, for instance, the cyclepaths are part of the foothpaths, and just once I had a near mishap, learned my lesson.
I mean if a car passes over a tramline without looking and gets hit do we blame the tram? (Ooops! Maybe in Dublin that’s what a lot of drivers do do.)Alek – I find lines like this offensive: ‘… to prove Paddy is thick and stupid enough to get a Quart into a Pint pot’
I also find your one thousand word complaint a little bit much without so much as one single suggestion of where exactly the buses should go instead or how you eliminate cash fares.
The only fatalities I can recall involving a bus was the Wellington Quay tragedy, a totally separate issue from O’Connell Street.
The “several fatalities” to which you refer all involved trucks and bicycles from what I know, which is precisely what the Port Tunnel is an attempt to eliminate.
The whole point of the O’Connell Street regeneration plan has been to try and remove all unnecessary traffic from the street and make it a public transport artery.
I think everybody can see that this is exactly what will happen. We are now in a heavy works phase, which is inevitably going to cause disruption.
There are only a handful of north-south arterial routes in this city for which we have our medieval “city planners” – not our current administration – to thank for.
Calling for people’s resignations because two English tourists are in too much of a rush to obey pedestrian signals is infantile. I’m no apologist for Dublin City Council but a little more constructive criticism and a little less point-scoring mighn’t go astray.
Also the notion that somehow road safety is better in Italy, Spain and France can only lead to me believe you have never travelled in any of those countries. Britain and Ireland are models of sophistication when compared to running the gauntlet of road traffic somewhere like Rome or Paris.To correct this problem, a kerb should be simply re-instated at the Spire, which would require no major work.
One thing that has continually irked me about O Connell Street is that hideous facade at Burger King at Lower O Connell St. I`m referring in particulat to the semi circular window frame. Someone told me the proposal is not to renew the licences for the businesses that fail to meet minimum standards for shopfronts etc? Can anyone throw any light on this ?
Sorry Kefu if U find the idea of a Thick stupid Paddy attempting to pour a quart into a pint pot offensive,but there U have it.
I cant find any other rational explanation for a system which forces EXTRA Bus Movements into a major arterial corridor at virtually the EXACT same time that major long-term civil engineering works are scheduled.
Apologies for omitting the suggestions you require but I have in the past been advised that such matters are best left to the “Professionals” who have been trained specifically to get these things right first time.
However my hopes that the “Professionals” would do as you suggest and utilize the Port Tunnell as a means of significantly reducing Heavy Goods Vehicle traffic along the Quays have received a setback recently as it now appears that Dublin City Council have decided that the original HGV ban criteria will NOT be as far reaching as originally anticipated by many.
In essence only 5 Axle HGV,ie Twin axle Tractor Unit and Tri-Axle trailer,will be completely excluded from the Quays,most other configurations will either be free to continue as at present or have some time-based restrictions imposed upon them.
Therefore as long as cyclists remain happy to mix-it with 2,3 or 4 axle Commercial Vehicles with Gross Vehicle Weights of between 16 and 34 Tonnes we have no real improvement in their lot.
Whether our Medieval City Planners vision of Dublin is any worse than the one we are presently struggling with is a moot point but what IS apparent is that nobody involved in the City`s administration has taken any real hard decisions in relation to the present Bus/Coach situation along O Connell St.
The most recent extra Bus Movements along O Connell St saw the 14/14A and 48 A routes sent headlong up and down the contentious O Connell St with it would appear NO pressure being applied to send these routes along new virgin territory,for example bring 48A into College Green,and then send it along Dame St,High St and Christchurch to terminate in that area or if feeling REALLY brave send it all the way to Heuston Station.
This would allow serious interaction with a wide variety of West and North Bound Bus Routes at a location OTHER THAN the much restricted O Connell St but perhaps this is a tad to avant garde for the SERIOUS Professionals to consider ?
The presence of a much improved Jervis St corridor stretching from Ormond Quay virtually uninterrupted to Parnell St could allow for many Westbound Bus routes to be turned and sent back out via either Capel St OR Nth King St.
Additionally there is now a sizeable amount of Kerbside Space in the Parnell St/Bolton St/Capel St triangle which again IF utilized would offer scope for a half secent Bus Terminal for West/North Bound City Centre Terminating routes.
Over on the other side of O Connell St we once again see busy routes such as the 33,41,and assorted Airport Coach services which for years utilised Gardiner St as their “Corridor” now being forced through the Parnell Sq/O Connell St Egg Timer only to suffer a convoluted time consuming dog-leg through Cathal Brugha St.
Perhaps the most incredible example of this Nitwittery is the City Council`s aquiescence with Dublin Bus`es rerouting of the busy and frequent Northbound 123 in response to the OC St “Heavy Works Phase”.
This route now has to beat its way all the way along the North Bound side of OC St,up along Parnell SDq West,thence via Parnell Sq North and BACK DOWN along Parnell Sq EAST to re-enter O Connell St upper Southbound before turning left into Cathal Brugha St in order to serve ONE stop at this location before trying to get back out onto Parnell St which It could have simply turned into directly from Parnell Sq East some 100 mtrs and up to 20 mins earlier.
Far from having no suggestions I and many of my colleagues have skip loads of suggestions,some feasible,some dubious and some probably dead in the water but the essential problem is a City Administration that does NOT have the slightest regard for this sort of brainstorming amongst the lower orders and which prefers to preserve the Status Quo at all costs even to the extent of presiding over serious RTA`s involving Fatalities and serious injuries (The fact that Thursdays Injured people were English Tourists is of NO bearing that I can see but perhaps I am missing something there too ?)
Am I being churlish in my speculation as to whether there was ANY real detailed inspection of the Bus Routing and Peak Time Bus Movement figures ?
Should I refrain from asking if my City Council`s professional Traffic Planners,Modellers,and assorted other grades simply assumed that ALL of the pre-existing Bus Stops could continue as heretofore in the midst of the “Heavy Works Phase” of the IAP.
I certainly do NOT make any copmparisions with other European Cities or Cultures and do not for a minute draw any safety related inferences from them.These cultures are Different to ours in so many ways and Traffic and Transport are but two small examples of this.
I have no desire to score points or anything else in relation to this debate but in the absence of anything like a professional,co-ordinated and SAFE approach from ANY of the City`s Administrative Glitterati then I`m afraid I shall merely continue to call it as I see it.
There is little doubt but the City Councils vision of the NEW O Connell St is a very positive and dreamily desireable one,however to achieve their goal the new Ethos deserved to be implimented at a far earlier stage in proceedings.
As I listened to replay of a Radio piece broadcast during the unveiling phase of the Tower of Light something struck me quite forcibly…
The interviewee (possibly Ian Ritchie) spoke of the Tower of Light capturing the gaze of people as they walked towards it from each of the Four Thoroughfares leading to its base,as they draw nearer the Tower draws their gaze to it`s polished base with its DNA strands intertwined and creeping upwards until the viewer cannot resist craning their neck in an attempt to catch site of the pinnacle stretching away almost into the clouds.
The Spire of Light thus represents the “New Irelands” vibrancy and its peoples ability and desire to reach up out of their troubled past to a new future at a higher happier level.
Now that we know that the point(!!) of the Tower of Light is to draw the viewers gaze skywards perhaps once again im being a phillistine if I suggest that the middle of a very busy pedestrian crossing is not exactly an ideal location for such a gaze inducing device,however artistic it may be.
At one time children were taught by rote to “Look Left-then Right-then Left again” before crossing busy roadways however modern Ireland would appear to prefer if our visitors simply Looked Up at the sky as they cross what might or might not be a vehicular thoroughfare…Now THAT is sophistication..!!!! 😮
Was it Sean O Casey who wrote about Lying in the gutter looking up at the Stars ,Joxer ???? 🙂I think you have it spot on about the Spire in the middle of the crossing – more in a sec.
But regarding the safety of this crossing, the ‘issue’ here is essentially where do you draw the line between personal pedestrian responsibility and that of the authorities in a busy urban environment like O’Connell St. It’s a difficult distinction to make, especially with the scheme that is now extant in the middle of the thoroughfare; not only do you have the Plaza to blur the lines, you have the mini-square as it were of the Spire too. It all makes perfect visual sense when walking along O’Connell St, but suddenly arriving at it from the exclusively pedestrian areas that are Henry and North Earl Streets a little more is needed than pedestrians having their wits about them. They need to be expressly informed.
I think an indication of the CC’s acceptance of this being a dodgy place is the reactionary painting of arrows and eyes onto the kerbline many months if not over a year after they were laid.As Greg says, there’s a perfectly simply solution – put a kerb back in and lay black tarmac as present on the rest of the street – it not only makes the arrangement so much safer, it is more pleasing to the eye.
I find it somewhat ironic that the ‘boulevard effect’ was singled out in the IT article as the cause for the confusion – in fact precisely the opposite is the case. If the CC were not so intent in swathing the street in granite ‘because it looks expensive’ and instead focused on maintaining the coherent linear design of the street, i.e. a proper ‘boulevard effect’, by laying black tarmac and kerbstones in tandem with the rest of the traffic lanes on the street, the current delineation problem would not be an issue.
It’s not necessarily fair to put all the blame on the City Council given the very difficult unique nature of this major intersection, but has anyone else found it slightly ironic that the world’s tallest sculpture is plonked right in the middle of one of the busiest pedestrian crossings in Europe?!
It’s a major problem I think, not in light of the recent incident, but having watched how this crossing operates nearly every weekday since it was first built.You have a wide stretch of pedestrians both walking towards each other on the median but they are forced to funnel themselves to either side of the Spire. As a result they often cannot see where they are going, and often continue on walking past the kerbline on the other side – the Spire as an obstacle and all the bollards help generate this confusion.
Then there’s the hoards of tourists and young people standing around, leaning against the Spire, standing about in the way, taking photographs by the hundred etc etc – all contributing to the confusion, and all happening right in the middle of a major crossing! At times it is nothing short of disasterous when there’s big crowds – refusing to move, standing around in face of swarms of people trying the make both sets of lights either side.
Also the bollards get in the way when there’s large crowds – even knowing they’re about the place I’ve still split myself on them with the other people concealing them, yet another aspect of the Spire that ought not to be in place in the middle of a busy crossing – would you line them along the O’Connell Bridge junctions?! Or what about a string of bollards on the kerbline of College Green?!In the evenings when it is dark and it is busy, I have found the Spire crossing to be downright dangerous – it can be chaos in the winter, and especially if it is raining and you’re trying to avoid slipping on the lethal base of the Spire. You cannot see the kerbline, you cannot see the bronze base, there’s people milling everywhere and the bollards disappear in the dark
But above all what ought to go I think is the Spire base – it is filthy by day, trip-overable by night, and a deathtrap in the rain.
It also adds further confusion to the paved area around the Spire. You might as well run paving right up to it anyway – make it ‘rise from the ground’, whilst preserving the sanity of pedestrians using what is a pedestrian crossing.It’s a difficult thing to control though admittedly – it’s become a ‘hang out space’ and major tourist attraction right in the heart of a major (and small) intersection. No wonder so many people elect to jaywalk the Plaza.
Alek, that’s more like it. While I don’t agree with everything you’ve said, there is real substance to most of those suggestions.
The Port Tunnel is a huge issue all by itself and I do genuinely fear that the whole project is half-redundant before it even opens (in the absence of a full Eastern bypass).
As you’ve said – the restrictions on trucks are already being changed but in fairness to DCC, the vast majority of heavy vehicles trundling down the Quays fall in to the restricted zone.
The reality is that even with the toll-free tunnel, truck drivers will only want to use it for trips on routes to Belfast, Derry, and Cavan.
Anyone travelling to Galway, Cork, Limerick, Waterford etc will do everything in their power to avoid going anywhere near the M50 at least until its upgrade is complete.
I’d also still be interested in how you would propose eliminating cash fares from buses. I know the obvious solution is to just sell tickets in newsagents (and we certainly have enough of them in the city centre). But what about infrequent passengers coming from the suburbs.
And I think your excellent and original theory about people looking up at the Spire is exactly what makes it relevant that they are English tourists.
In future, don’t assume people aren’t interested in highly detailed responses – they are. And if not, they can choose not to read the posting.
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