O’ Connell Street, Dublin
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Yes, and interesting details about the Westland Row bridge creating eh ‘difficulties’ for fitting a Luas underneath…
Here’s a pic that’s been kicking about for a while – does anyone know if the brickwork of Frazer’s on Upper O’Cll St is original or just pastiche? The facade is made up of two merged properties that from a distance look whole.
But as can be seen below, the left-hand section has clearly modern brickwork while the right-hand two-bay section has a pre-1940s formation, and a crumbly old appearance too.
The very top of the uppermost floor appears to have been rebuilt recently.
Anyone know what was here before Frazer’s moved in?
And considering we’ve never had any pics of this terrace between 1922 to c1960 posted here, does anyone know if this terrace was even damaged in 1922? (save the corners which appear to have been rebuilt)And just on 1922, I saw archive footage during the week of Deane’s fairytale building being blown up after 1922. It seems to have survived the events themselves but was subsequently demolished due to irreversible damage – there was a slight upward blast and then the upper floors all came showering down into the street 🙁
@Devin wrote:
How could they have made no effort to salvage at least the facia stonework?
It makes the blood boil just how short-sighted people were at various times, surely someone would have had a back garden capable of taking some form of folly based on the materials.
I had a squint at the back of Fraziers recently and it all looks new build, I suspect it is all new build from any contact I have had with the building and sadly the interior is worse than the exterior.
The corner building at the end of the terrace is the only decent building for virtually all of the block bounded by O’Connell St and Cathal Brigha St back as far as Bord Pleanala (I am not too sure on the Parnell St buildings and suspect a few of them should be on a risk list). The thing that surprised me most was the size of the surface car-park to the rear of Findlater House, Fibbers and Fraziers.
Yikes – it’s huge! 🙂
No doubt of great appeal to whoever snaps up Findlater House next – a very valuable relic from the car-happy age. What a waste of city centre space.
As for the Deane building – have to emphasise that it seems to have been blown up afterwards. The film was grainy but I’d be 99% sure it was deliberate as it all seemed very controlled, not least as there was a camera set up in the centre of O’Connell St directed at that building at that moment, and which I very much doubt was done with bullets and shells flying about overhead 🙂
Its worth asking in relation to Andrew P`s reflection on Bus Stop positioning,as to what exactly is the present status of the “Safety Review” of ALL Dublin Bus stops which was promised in the immediate aftermath of Wellington Quay.
Such a review would certainly be well worth having when seeking explanations from such luminaries as Dublin City Council as to their corporate Self-Confidence in positioning a Long Dwell Inter City Coach Stop adjacent to major junction.
The same City Council (And of course their supportive arm,An Garda Siochana) had no qualms about reserving the Very last stop Northbound On The O Connell St Building Site for Aircoach,yet another Long-Dwell operation which requires the driver to leave the cab to attend to porterage duties.This means that any vehicles which manage to successfully get that far MUST then form a line behind the driverless coach,which usually has its engine left running. Safety First ?Gimme a Break.@Alek Smart wrote:
Its worth asking in relation to Andrew P`s reflection on Bus Stop positioning,as to what exactly is the present status of the “Safety Review” of ALL Dublin Bus stops which was promised in the immediate aftermath of Wellington Quay.
I think that is exactly the point when the divy up was done on O’Connell St to reduce the number of stops for the renovation works; this shouldn’t have been allowed to be placed here and it would be interesting to find out who if anybody sanctioned the positioning of this bus stop for this type of route at this position.
Who sanctions bus stops would it be The Dept of Transport & DCC or DCC in isolation?
Aren’t the Gardai the traffic authority for the city? Perhaps not in isolation, but they surely would have had an input.
Pearse Street, AFAIK.Am I misguided or is it looking like the “Old” Taxi Rank on OCS is being reinstated in the exact same place as before ?
Yes, I noticed this a couple of weeks back. Its the first area of paving being laid. I suppose the taxi stand has to go somewhere. It would seem a bit unfair to victimise the taxi drivers seeing as everyone else is being more than generously catered for in the median – motorbikes, cyclists, street signage manufacturers, bollard makers.
😀
And there was me thinking the powerful, consistant, unbroken vista of Upper O’Connell St was going to be the saving grace of this Area Plan :rolleyes:
Why do the taxis have to go back here?!
I agree and add that it will be a lot harder to restrict private car use with a taxi rank remaining on the street as the space “obviously isn’t needed for pedestrians” or “if you moved the taxi rank the pedestrians would have a better environment” this is typical local politics interfering in urban planning yet again. One wonders just how much or little lobbying had to be done before DCC caved in?
What was required was for DCC to think creatively on how to create new ranks in a way that would minimise traffic movements on O’Connell St and serve the middle of the street (Sackville Place) and serve the top and the Lower ends of the Street. To do this most effectively the ideal situation would have been to minimise the distance travelled to the rank on the Street
From the North the Gate is perfect as there is ample space and it would have drawn more people up in the Parnell Square direction an area that is developing well. The driver then has the choice of Parnell St for North/West or O’Connell St South.
At the other end of the Street Middle Abbey St could have accomodated a taxi rank that would have been both convenient to O’Connell St and Abbey/Liffey Sts. Access would be from Lower O’Connell St ensuring a large reduction in the number of Taxi’s travelling the entire length of the Street to get to the rank, it would also all but eliminate the u-turn at Cathal Brugha Street.
Retention of Sackville Place would allow taxis entering from Marlborough St to continue doing this.
Given this latest intrusion on the plan I am coming to the conclusion that O’Connell St despite the excellent forward planning is simply going to be a horribly cluttered place that will yield only a moderate quality amenity value. Of course it is better than it was but issues like:
1> The Taxi Rank
2> Bike / Moto clutter
3> Traffic signs
4> Lax planning enforcement on window and other fenestration replacements
5> Few incentives being taken up by occupiers
6> Additional call shops
7> Additional convenience stores
8> Increased bus routes stopping
9> The Carlton
10> illegal hoardings
11> Failure to remove amusement arcades/ fastfood outlets
The list goes onFor me the only real acheivements have been the Spire, Staue cleaning and the section of plaza in front of the GPO when it isn’t totally cluttered with motorbikes.
Oh ThoMo we aint seen nuttin yet……
The reinstatement of the Rank appears to be largely based on the fact that ….”Its ALWAYS been there” no doubt heavily emphasized by a Junior Transport Minister or somesuch.
The infuriating manner in which supposed LEADERS in Civic and National terms simply refuse point blank to grasp the opportunity to be forces for REAL change for the better in the City is what marks this country out as a basket case.
Just as Dublin remains a largely “Ground Floor City” with virtually NO central zone resedential use being actively stimulated so to is the Centre City dying a death from the Council`s refusal to deal with the simple requirements of Traffic Management.
Since the advent of Bobberty Molloys Deregulation Irish Style one of the best free events was to be found at the OLD O Connell St Taxi Rank each day as occasional Garda Traffic Corps Motorcyclists would suddenly swoop on the Quart load of taxi`s all attempting to squeeze into the Pint Pot of the Rank.
Street Theatre at its finest with shouting,gesticulation,pathos,bathos,and displays of stoic resignation being shown by both sides.
Of course Bobser and his fellow traveller Seamus B expanded the City`s taxi Fleet overnight by a factor of at least 4 whilst in real terms reducing available on street Rank space by approx 5%.
Bizzarrely the state continued to pay these pair Ministerial salaries for this piece of far sighted traditional irish music and craic….
Thankfully things have changed and we now have a Taxi Regulator…..well an INTERIM Taxi Regulator who will no doubt ensure that the NEW IMPROVED O Connell St rank will operate to the Highest International Standards etc etc …..
Why oh why for just ONCE cannot some so called civic leader not grasp an opportunity and make a grand gesture which would be supported by the Citizens who after all are expecting some BIG Changes after all the O Connell St work is finished !!!! :confused:A comprehensive summary TP – though of the negative points it’s important to note, as there are a great many pluses too.
But I think it can be argued that the pluses are run of the mill and are to be expected as a given in any urban space – improved paving, less traffic, greater pedestrian priority, better public lighting, an excellent level of cleanliness being maintained etc.The negative aspects are those I think that could have made O’Connell St, or rather could be making it right now in relation to inappropriate uses and decrepit properties that have not been acted on.
Specifically in relation to the taxi rank – one question.
If it is not visually damaging and not a pedestrian obstruction – why not put it on Lower O’Connell Street?!
Why not narrow the Lower median behind the Monument and pop the rank in there – the cars could make a neat U-turn between William Smith O’Brien and the Luas line. Why not put it outside Eason’s and Clery’s with a U-turn just before the Plaza – I’m sure these flagship stores would be delighted with this new level of accessibility?Why not? Because Upper O’Connell St is still very much so out of sight out of mind.
Who cares if there’s a huge rank up there impinging on the aesthetic and taking an amenity space away from the pedestrian – it’s only the Upper Street, up there with all those tacky, lower order, noisy, cheap stores and run-down buildings.
Never in a million years would the taxi rank be put on Lower O’Connell St, it’s too important. But the Upper stigma lives on as bouyant as ever, in spite of the admirable notions of this IAP.
The Upper street as has always been the case is not of real concern and so gets whatever is chucked at it.
Maybe I was a little critical above but we are all looking at the best IAP ever put together in the City being compromised still further and again this is another major alteration that the planners have been unable to stop as they have obviously been over-ruled or failed to have been consulted in this matter. Alek is spot on both Callely who did represent the taxi drivers at the time of deregulation and Molloy who is mentioned more than once in the Destruction of Dublin.
Upper O’Connell St is as you say viewed in a very different light by DCC, the quality of retail offering beyond CIE/Burger King is abysmal by any standard and there appears to be no leadership on this. What is most tragic is that there are some fantastic buildings on this stretch not least the Hammam Buildings and The Gresham. Yet between the two the Savoy received permission to errect as blocky a signage arrangement as was possible despite this area being an ACA.
From a circulation point of view this end of the street will be little better than before once the taxi rank is reinstated as there will still be five if not six lanes of moving/stationary traffic. The real success of Lower O’C St has been the central plaza feature in design temrs and the section between Abbey St and the Spire in circulation terms. As Notjim said on another thread earlier the synchronised lights are great. This will not work if there are one if not two lanes of stationary taxis blocking passage/ moving slowly as you attempt to cross.
As there has been talk of a new body to oversee the new NDP (i.e. a second attempt to get beyond 25% on the original one) it is worth noting that John Fitzgerald was mooted as supremo of the then to be created ‘National Infrastructure Body’ back in 2000; he was perceived as a man who could get things done. If O’Connell St is any indication one thing is certain; even someone who is as capable as Fitzgerald can do little if central government doesn’t disburse funds as promised; if he is offered this job as a similar post is being mooted again as being available I wonder will he be offered it again?
You raise a point I’ve meaning to ask – where is the O’Connell Street money coming from?
€400m isn’t it – or this for the entire HARP area?Is the CC paying directly for any of it, or is some from the NDP or directly from the DoE?
@Graham Hickey wrote:
You raise a point I’ve meaning to ask – where is the O’Connell Street money coming from?
€]It would have been funded under the RAPID programme
@DoEHLG wrote:
Launch of Provincial Towns Strand of RAPID Programme – Revitalising Areas by Planning, Investment and Development
The Provincial Towns Strand of the RAPID Programme, launched today (1 February) by Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D., Minister for the Environment and Local Government, will target twenty towns for State investment in facilities and services over the next three years. This programme is about “improving the quality of life of communities in these towns and in doing so giving a lift to the whole town” said the Minister.
RAPID stands for Revitalising Areas by Planning, Investment and Development. As the name implies, RAPID is about ensuring that all towns selected under the programme are re-vitalised through prioritised investment in a coherent, targeted and accelerated way. Under the National Development Plan (NDP) Government Departments and State Agencies, including local authorities will be giving special attention to the areas targeted to ensure efficient and effective implementation of RAPID.
“The RAPID Programme for provincial towns is about revitalising and renewing the selected towns. It’s about targeting those communities in these towns who have, to an extent, missed out on our recent prosperity and frontloading investment under the NDP in the selected towns.” the Minister said. RAPID is a focused Government response aimed at helping these communities whether they are located in concentrated areas in the larger urban centres or in pockets of deprivation in the smaller provincial towns.
RAPID is made up of two Strands – Strand I which was launched last February, focuses on the major urban areas, and Strand II which deals with provincial towns. For the bigger towns selected under Strand II, targeted areas of need within the town will come under the RAPID programme. In the case of smaller towns, there will be a more whole town approach. However there will be a particular focus on tackling pockets of disadvantage at various locations within the overall town.
The Minister outlined how the RAPID Programme will operate on the ground. A special co-ordinator will be appointed by the relevant local authorities for each of the 20 towns. The co-ordinator will work with an Area Implementation Team which will include local residents and State agencies to draw up an action plan for the towns, which will identify needs. The targeted areas within the towns will then be prioritised for investment and development in a number of key areas, including health, education, housing, childcare and community facilities.
“The provincial towns Strand of RAPID is a serious initiative by Government to re-vitalise disadvantaged areas in the selected towns. We will ensure that the State Agencies will deliver on good quality plans drawn up for these towns in consultation with local communities” the Minister concluded.
ENDS
1/02/02The money was never released
Thanks for that – so where has the money come from thus far?
And was it intended to use these future RAPID funds for the IAP back in 1998?M Cullen wrote:Cullen Allocates Over €]The only reference I could find to any grants delivered to urban projects in Dublin are above and that is a search from January 2000 to March 2004 the entire period of the works
The money has come out of general budget
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