O’ Connell Street, Dublin

I would imagine that the Carlton would in have been completed long ago if the CPO had not been made, I am sure that Clinton would have had the option to find a joint venture partner similar to the British Land entries to the Ilac and Stephens Green centres. It is worth noting that retail as a sector thrived during the parrallel business space dip.

Re the signage I agree the 1950’s probably were the start of the signage problem in relation to signage for both cultural reasons such as it was ‘new & modern’ and for procedural reaons such as the absence of real planning legislation which subsequently arrived in the form of the 1963 act.

How do you merge two railway lines when they’re running at right angles to each other though?
When they talk about a Luas link, do they really mean putting the lines sufficiently close together that you can hop off one tram and get on another?

I dunno all the design work is done for the link-up and it wouldn’t need to go back for planning again as a new line would. I thinks that Luas would look great on O’Connell St and Grattan bridge is too narrow to take a luas.

It wouldn’t be possible because the public transport system outside the canals couldn’t support the numbers that would require entry to the centre if cars were banned. Of course on the other hand the City would be a much more pleasant place to be and travelling from Grafton St to O’Connell St wouldn’t be such a hassle. I noted Garret Fitzgerald’s article in yesterdays Irish Times in which he he said:

“Some of these difficulties derive from the layout of Dublin, which has only one north-south route across the city centre, that between the Bank of Ireland and Trinity College. Moreover, access from both northern and southern suburbs is somewhat restricted because of the need in both cases to cross a river and canal.

Even more fundamental, however, is the fact that Dublin is an extraordinarily low-density city. As little as one kilometre in almost any direction from O’Connell Bridge, houses with gardens are the principal form of residential accommodation”

If this is the critical access corridor for Central Dublin then it is absolutely clear that it should be reserved exclusively for public transport and that the Calatrava bridge should be pushed through to provide capacity for North – South traffic.

In relation to the “Luas Interconnector” these are actually two seperate projects with ‘Joining the dots’ being a connection of two of the three promised Luas lines whilst the ‘Interconector’ is an Iarnrod Eireann plan to build a tunnel between Heuston and Spencer Dock in the Docklands with three intermediate stations on route, the genius of this plan is that the four main rail routes in the City are paired off to avoid time consuming reversals which take up a lot of track time, so if you use the Southern line your train will be paired off with Maynooth and if you use the northern line your train will be paired off with Kildare.

Luas as a solution internationally generally relates to short City Centre routes such as College Green and possibly O’Connell St. It is an interesting question as whether the Boulevardisation should be curtailed on the Lower end of the Street to accomodate Luas. It is clear that something will have to give and the question is will it be Luas, buses or pedestrians?

Surly the biggest problem with connecting the the two luas lines is the huge amount of wires and posts that would obtruct the view of Trinity and the Bank of Ireland. Posts would also have to be used as its unlighly that that you could attacth wires to the bank or college considering their importance.
Another more practical reason that it should’nt happen is that 1/3 of Dublin Bus routes go through College Green and by only allowing luas through you would reduce the number of people being given direct access to College Green.
Another smaller short term point is, do we really want to see 0’Connell St. dug up again for another god knows how long?
If there to be connected at all they should go possibly via Pearse Station, but that is problimatic in itself.

Pretty convincing argument in relation to the difference between mounting overhead wires on coloured brick vs portland stone and granite. I’d say that the College Green alignment and onto O’Connell St is highly problematic in a non-visual sense as well i.e. the way it competes with other users of what is very finite road/path/boulevard space. Of all the interventions made onto Dublins streets over the past 5 years the RPA has made the biggest mess by a distance in my opinion. How do other people rate the RPA’s Harcourt St works vs DCC on O’Connell St?

@Graham Hickey wrote:

In terms of public domain finish or the use of roadspace?

I think the fact that most of us have thought that it has always been a case road or path in the past has let the visual down in a major way as conventional solutions were always employed according to the scale of the paved area remaining. This is an area in which we are far behind the continental countries as the standard finish applied was always conventional, predictable and generally for a small area with this further being compounded by our national trait of placing as many poles as is possible in the most visible places for motorists which often happen to destroy pedestrian amenity.

This for me is where the O’Connell St plan is a revalation in that it took a streetscape with sufficient scale and tore up the Dublin paving rule book. The quality of amenity that is provided by adding new finishes and minor features such as kiosks is what will create a first class public domain. The careful selection of what traffic is permitted onto the roadspace is a major part of this and I don’t think that a Luas line at this point of the street would be helpful. Personally I feel that Suffolk St and onto the Northern side of Dame St would be better suited to a luas line and would sever College Green at just the right point for a continuation of the boulevard.

I disagree – the city centre is far too small – one of the great advantages of the Luas (as is) is that it broadens the area what we would call the city centre now from Heuston to Docklands. Bringing the Luas to O’Connell Street would just crowd an increasingly congested space. It would be preferable to have the link away from this area – preferably bygoing down Merrion Square then back up to Customs House via butt bridge (why does everyone it seems confuse Butt Bridge with the loopline?!!!!) It would create less congestion and increase the area of the city centre- in a grid sense – than just one or two streets – not every bloody thing has to cross onto O’Connell Street…. 😮

Also, southsiders do shop on the Northside – stats show that more money per head is spent on Henry St. than on Grafton St., unless you are suggesting southsiders earn less/spend less than the northsiders, in which case they can stay south of the liffey!!! :p

I noticed that the windowsa above Beshoffs were repainted lately – nice job! Same cant be said for Burger King (have to mention it was the one near O’Connell Bridge) – many of the original casement timber windows were removed just recently from the top two storeys and replaced with the usual lovvvvely PVC…. I notice these things – pity the council doesn’t….

I disagree – the city centre is far too small – one of the great advantages of the Luas (as is) is that it broadens the area what we would call the city centre now from Heuston to Docklands.

I don’t see that at all; the Luas as it stands doesn’t extend the centre in my mind – the red line represents a commuter route with a number of central end destinations; Arbour Hill is not suddenly part of the city centre as a result of the Luas.

What constitutes the “centre” for me is not defined by arbitrary shapes on a map, wishful thinking on the part of city planners or by the existance of tram lines but by the collection of streets which offer enough attractions (whether retail, cultural, amenity, hospitality, etc.) which suck in a critical mass of pedestrians which results in a busy and lively atmosphere. On the northside, this would be the area bounded by the Liffey, O’Connell St., Parnell St. and Capel St. with fingers extending out for short distances (especially eastwards). It’s a bit more difficult to define on the southside because Trinity and Dublin Castle intrude and the shape is more irregular but a similar area can be defined (e.g. the eastern boundary includes Tara St. and Kildare St., south it’s Stephen’s Green, west is North Edward St., again with a number of “fingers” extending down High Street, Camden St, etc.)

What’s interesting about this whole area (which represents the busiest part of the the city) is that there are just 3 Luas stops and a single DART stop in the entire area. This represents a TINY fraction of the DART and Luas systems. Besides that the only way into it from the the rest of the sprawl that is Dublin using public transport is by bus. This is remarkable given that this area is where I imagine over 90% of the people want to get to when they talk about going into town. It may seem like a relatively small area, but try walking from Henry Street to the Stephens Green Luas stop with a couple of bags of shopping. Linking the lines through Westmoreland St. and O’Connell St. will integrate and strenghten this central area and would support more pedestrianisation and hopefully re-routing of many of the bus routes.

I notice that the old bus stop signs have started to creep back onto O’ Connell St.

They’ve plonked one right in front of the GPO and another for the number 10 outside the Centra on the other side.
Looks very ugly!

I think they should have tried to keep the area between Abbey St and Henry St clear of all this clutter. It looked really good just after it was finished with no signage at the sides or motor bikes, for that matter, in the central median.