O’ Connell Street, Dublin

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  • #728927
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    You can just about catch a glimpse of the two storey height structure I’m talking about in that image if you look very carefully at shadows of the tree in Pauls picture.

    http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/northcity/quays/eden/dublin_steampacket_lge.html

    #728928
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Can just see it alright – presumably all options for extending the existing site were considered…
    The allure of the Carlton site can be really appreciated when you consider the difficulties so many sites pose – it’s a ready-made package in comparison…

    But just on that corner building – presumably it is WSC structure given its context in the picture below, located at the exact point where the quay becomes regularised.
    What I don’t understand is why the WSC layed out Lower O’Connell St with apparent disregard to the narrowness of the resulting junction with Eden Quay.
    Was it layed out in this fashion because the Bachelor’s Walk junction is already very wide, and moving O’Cll St back any further to accommodate Eden Quay would result in an excessively wide Bachelor’s Walk?

    This FJP aerial picture highlights the nature of the quay very well – alas the building you mention Thomond Park is just out of shot, but you can just make out the plot width.
    The impressive Abbey St junction corner building composition is also strikingly evident:

    http://fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/kf/aerial/002/oconnell-street-aerial.jpg

    #728929
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Yes it would have been a much more impressive vista if No1 were omitted and the initial plots of Eden Quay set back one half plot like Bachelors Walk, No 1 O’Connell St is basically only a half plot anyway. FJP never ceases to amaze in the depth of his collection, that particular image gives a unique perspective on the Ulster Bank Chambers at Numbers 2, 3 and 4 the identical treatment at ground level is interesting when one compares the totally different upper floor elevations. As for the Cuppolla that is just downright cheeky although probably less monumental than the Dublin Bread Company image that was posted here before.

    #728930
    adhoc
    Participant

    Re: College House. It looks like An Post still own College House even though they vacated it in 2002. According to the letting agents, it still hasn’t found any takers for the remaining life of the lease (expires 2014).

    From Quinn Agnew site (today):
    http://www.quinnagnew.ie/search_results.asp?type=office

    College House
    Dublin 2

    Status

    To Let (By Assignment)

    Location

    College House is situated in the heart of Dublin city at the junction of Townsend Street with DOlier Street/Hawkins Street, within 200 yards of OConnell Bridge and adjacent to Trinity College.
    The central location places it literally within minutes from business, retail, financial, educational and government centres of the city.

    Description

    This high profile building consists of a mezzanine floor and 7 floors of office space with ground floor entrance and reception area.
    Service and plant accommodation is at basement and roof levels.

    The upper floors of the building offer views over the city.

    Accommodation

    Typical Floor
    7 @ 550.9 sq.m. = 3,856.3 (41,510 sq.ft.)
    Mezzanine Floor
    1 @ 188.0 sq.m. = 188.0 sq.m. (2,024 sq.ft.)
    Total: 4,044.3 sq.m. (43,534 sq.ft.)
    51 car spaces

    Lease Details

    Lease Date – 19th July 1972
    Lease Term – 42 years from 10th April 1972
    Current Rent – Γ’β€šΒ¬1,231,646
    Rent Review Pattern – 7 year
    Rent Review Date – 10th April 2007
    Unexpired Lease Term – 12 years
    User – Office and car parking
    Rent Review Clause – Standard

    Noel Quinn/John Kirwan
    Map/Other Images

    From Irish Independent in 2002:

    College House, Dublin comes to market

    ADVERTISEMENT

    COLLEGE House, Dublin 2 has been brought to the market by Quinn Agnew on behalf of An Post who intend vacating the premises in September. The landmark city building is located within 200 yards of O’Connell Bridge and adjacent to Trinity College. It is located to the front of Hawkins House where the Office of Public Works is well advanced with plans for the major refurbishment of this complex.

    The seven storey and mezzanine office building extends to 4044 sq.m. and has the benefit of 51 on site car spaces.

    There are twelve years left on the lease. The current rent is £1.23m per annum, reflecting a very competitive market level. Let under a seven year rent pattern, the next rent review is in April 2007 (unexpired lease term twelve years).

    “Few opportunities arise in the market to acquire centre city office space of this size with such an attractive car parking ratio at a very competitive rental level,” Noel Quinn of agents Quinn Agnew said.

    “Potential occupiers will be adjacent to all major transport facilities including Tara St Dart Station, Busaras and termini for most of Dublin’s suburban bus routes.”

    A premium of Γ’β€šΒ¬200,000 is being quoted for the leasehold interest. The shortage of city centre office accommodation has pushed Dublin 2 right to the top of the rental pecking order and buildings in this prime precinct are much sought after.

    Built around 1970 and typical of its era, the building can accommodate some 300 persons. Existing An Post staff are understood to be relocating to various centres operated by the postal authority.

    #728931
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    300 per square meter for second generation accomodation of that scale and quality (low ceiling heights and no airconditioning) would definitely require significant tenant inducements in Todays market.

    #728932
    GrahamH
    Participant

    To say the least – who the hell’s going to take that on in this office market climate, albeit improving quite fast. Any of its competition outshines it. Interesting that the state still has a semi-interest in it though….

    Keep meaning to mention that Ulster Bank shopfront – if there’s one that should’ve been included in the IAP for alteration but wasn’t, it is this one.
    It’s passable enough because it’s granite, but the way it crudely cuts across the individual buildings is unacceptable, not to mention its design which is as flat as a pancake compared with the upper floors; it doesn’t ‘support’ them properly either.

    Also these bizarre concrete units installed in the larger building must be removed – they look awful next to the elegant neo-classical motifs alongside:

    The fjp image is fanatsic, it shows so much, from the intrusion of the former Burgerland, now Schuh building to the rear, to the amount of Georgians still lurking behind the neighbouring street facades (although some of the chimneys have been removed since this pic was taken in the 80s), to the vast nature of the Royal Hibernian Bank across the road who had occupied the Bread Co Building just a few years before it was destroyed – this being their landmark new branch. It originally had a large projecting portico similar to the Olympia – though I think it looks better without it πŸ™‚

    It also shows up one puzzling thing – why was a cupola never built on the top of Manfield Chambers (Clarks)? Especially when you consider how grand it it, you’d think the effort would’ve been made – perhaps costs mounted. It has impressive chimneys which can be seen from the street too.
    The slightly skewed roof of the Victorian gabled building is also interesting πŸ™‚

    #728933
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The front elevation of the bank at shopfront level is poor in comparison with the quality of the upper floors, although when I think of that stretch of O’Connell St I don’t think that pre-boulevardisation I would have noticed too much as the space is so congested that one merely negotiates a path without bumping into other people. Certainly some inducements should be offered for a change of shopfront now that the Street is being laid out a new.

    The Mansfield chambers is interesting and I suppose no-one really noticed that building too much with the huge Texaco neon that was on it for years, there is a lot to be said for banks holdind pivotal properties given their conservative taste in terms of signage. But now thats its clear the ommission is noticable and I suppose it could be likened to the railway end of Croke Park, its plainer but at least it is different.

    #728934
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Could still build one – wonder if it was intended and if plans are still kicking around…

    The shopfront of the Ulster Bank was put in around 1980-5 I think – or glued on, whatever way you want to look at it πŸ™‚

    I love that balcony above, how utterly pompous – you’d expect the Queen to step out at any moment πŸ™‚
    Interesting to note that the panes of plate glass probably aren’t original anywhere on the facade given the multi-pane sashes in the window to the right of the balcony there…
    This building could look spectacular floodlit properly – as it is it’s pretty much the only building on the street that makes a decent effort…

    #728935
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    It would make a fantastic spot to grant the freedom of the City if you could get out onto the balcony which unfortunately doesn’t look deep enough to accomodate even a couple of people, you are right many buildings of far less quality are floodlit. The motifs are pretty eerie though

    #728936
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Problem is that you’d have to force the dignitaries and Esteemed Citizen to crawl out on their hands and knees through the lower central sash πŸ˜€

    But then again it’d be an Irish solution to an Irish problem – ‘ah sure it takes them down a peg or two anyway – good enough for them, up on their high horses’…

    #728937
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @Graham Hickey wrote:

    Problem is that you’d have to force the dignitaries and Esteemed Citizen to crawl out on their hands and knees through the lower central sash πŸ˜€

    But then again it’d be an Irish solution to an Irish problem – ‘ah sure it takes them down a peg or two anyway – good enough for them, up on their high horses’…

    Certainly would be a typical begrudgers mentaility all right.

    I had a look at the building this morning and I’d have to say that the granite inserted in the 1980’s really hasn’t aged in as well as it should, the windows are also an abberation when one looks at the generous proportions of the upper storeys. 😑

    #728938
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Absolutely – the windows are the worst element. They are far too small and bear no connection at all to the upper floors. It’s like part of a facade has been cut off a different building and stuck onto these two unfortunates.

    Having the interior hidden from view is also not pleasant – something of a two-fingers mentality directed at the passer-by the second they step onto the street.
    It’s interesting – if you asked most people to list the outlets on any part of the street, this would probably be the stretch they’d identify as being the least memorable – maybe along with the Hammam Buildings terrace.
    Certainly this lower part still is for me – even now I couldn’t list all the occupiers along there, a jewellers, amusments, candyfloss/donut PVC cabin…..
    The Ulster Bank is a major contributer to the stagnant nature of this important part of the street. Look what a difference the new Bank of Ireland along here has made alone in recent months.

    #728939
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Definitely this section the door case and doors of the Hammam buildings are fantastic I love 1920’s bronze joinery, there are few timbers that can communicate oppulence as easily particularly when the rest of the building is so forgetable. I wonder how the stretch of O’Connell St around the Hammam buildings will work after the makeover, I have a feeling that Upper O’Connell Street will prove even more successful.

    #728940
    GrahamH
    Participant

    They’re impressive alright – here’s another fjp picture of the rear of that terrace.
    Interesting to note that the copper mansard roof of the Savoy is just a charade to maintain continuity along the terrace – presumably the cinema has been extended since this was taken.
    The nature of early modern construction from the 1920s is also evident to the rear of all the buildings.

    Also excellent at showing the extent of the Carlton site, and how all of the Georgian gardens have been consumed:

    http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/kf/aerial/002/oconnell-carlton.jpg

    #728941
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The Savoy front roof elevation deception works very well and tricks like that are what seperate good from bad architecture, realistically how many of us would ever have known or cared if no intrusion to the streetscape were made?

    The asbestos roof is going to cost a fortune to decommission on the Carlton, it is a very interesting point that you make about the gradual consumption of backland in the retail district. I was in an office on the third floor above pen corner on College Green a few years ago and the windows of adjoining extension extension were literally inches away, with rear elevations with no prospects its not so important particularly in tight blocks such as here. One place where it doesn’t work so well is the BT multi-storey carpark on Clarendon/South William Streets, a new bar called ‘rush’ has opened on South William St complete with a nice rear terrace, unfortunately it is a little oppressive being towered over by such a primative structure as a semi-open concrete framed multi-storey CP.

    That FJP image really gives an indication on just how potentially huge The Carlton Site could become,

    #728942
    GrahamH
    Participant

    I think some of the buildings to the rear of the Carlton have already been demolished.

    Yes it’s interesting how the backlands of buildings get completely consumed – looking at the long narrow plots of the buildings next to Dublin Bus there, it’s crazy! No natural ventilation & artificial lighting most of the way through…

    It’s even more bizarre when you see entire blocks of streets enclosing around yards in a doughnut shape, that in themselves get consumed eventually. This used to happen with Georgian & Victorian houses too where it’d have a much greater impact. I know someone who used to live in a corner Victorian in Dublin where there was no rear at all – it just fitted into the other 2 buildings with no rear windows at all!

    At least Upper O’Connell St has the advantage of stable lanes on both sides for access and to curb a halt to ever-extending buildings.

    #728943
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Light is so important to an individuals health and it is interesting that the first thing that most architects mention in commission negotiations is always natural light, the second of course being budget. πŸ˜€

    Laneways can be a blessing and I suppose this is probably the origin of the ‘site coverage measure’ in development consent adjudication to ensure that sufficient natural light reaches all occupied areas of a building. I have a feeling that whatever happens with the Carlton is going to be huge and I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of these open air laneways repalced with glazed malls/walkways, I’d say that similar to the Ilac and Civic Offices schemes the probability is that streets will be replaced with internal access, It will be interesting to see what emerges. 😎

    #728944
    asdasd
    Participant

    Is fjp a human with the ability to fly? How come we’ve never seen him around πŸ™‚

    #728945
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @asdasd wrote:

    Is fjp a human with the ability to fly? How come we’ve never seen him around πŸ™‚

    He is still around

    http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/index.html

    #728946
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    For anyone wondering about the suitability of the Abbey to Extend in its current location I got the below image of the lane I was talking about between Liberty Hall and Beresford Court.

    http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/city/0code1/alley-abbey-st-old.html

    The more I think about it there is nothing to stop the Abbey re-developing where it is by consuming part of the above lane, leveling the health club and their existing building and building a state of the art auditorium there, the seamans building at the front which is sadly only a facade retention could provide the entrance to the National Theatre giving prime river frontage whilst retaining the historical location of the theatre.

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