O’ Connell Street, Dublin

Am I the only one who thinks O’Connell St is beyond help? Sorry for being a downer, but we’re at the end of 15+ years one of the longest economic booms we’ve had, the street is as bad as ever, and we’re past the point where there is any money to deal with the problem.

Sure, it has gained the Spire, some new trees and new widened pavements. On the other hand, the street still only has one decent store, Easons (Clery’s as always resembles something from the Soviet era), and the northern end of the street is now even worse. The Savoy has a lovely new lobby, yet now has screens smaller than some people’s televisions. I work near it and the number of dodgy characters has increased in the last year; one day alone I saw a fist fight in the middle of the street and am attempted snatching. No guards around; they were probably off somewhere arresting pregnant ex-travel agents.

P.

@alonso wrote:

O C St is infintely better than 20 years ago – less traffic, more people

Can’t say I have noticed a difference in either of this myself. “More people” is not necessary a good thing and has certainly not translated into better shops anyway.

but the removal of the trees, the widening of the pavements and the reduction in car traffic has made it a far better place.

As I said in my original post, these have happened and have improved it, but we’re talking about 15 years of an economic boom. In that time, we’ve gotten trees and a pavement. This doesn’t inspire much confidence in the future.

There are dodgy characters on every main street in the world.

O’Connell St certainly has nowhere near the same welcoming atmosphere as, say, Grafton St. I mean, I’m from the inner city myself so not exactly unused to rough areas, but apart from tourists, the average Dubliner does not saunter up O’Connell St to window-shop or enjoy a coffee/brunch. And Abbey St is downright intimdating these days with gangs of junkies hanging out at the Luas stops, occasionally attacking the tram with a golf umbrella like I saw a while back.

There’s a long way to go and the redevelopment of the Western side will have a massive impact as will metro. Feel free to give up but i hope you’re in the minority

Well, as I said in the my original post – it’s now been 15 years, when the country was swimming in money. For the forseeable future, the country will be paying billions in interest to artificially prop up property prices for our developer overlords. O’Connell St was shit when I was a student, it still shit (with trees) now that I’m (almost) middle-aged. There’s a difference between pessimism and realism, and I think I’m being realistic here.

P.

@paul_moloney wrote:

Can’t say I have noticed a difference in either of this myself. “More people” is not necessary a good thing and has certainly not translated into better shops anyway.

true but activity is always better than desolation. The northside of town in my younger days was an empty hostile collection of surface car parks and a few shops thrown in between the dereliction

As I said in my original post, these have happened and have improved it, but we’re talking about 15 years of an economic boom. In that time, we’ve gotten trees and a pavement. This doesn’t inspire much confidence in the future.

I agree and this can be applied right across the board to Docklands development and Transport investment. However in relation to O C St i don’t think it’s possible to overstate the impact of the ongoing neglect and legal wrangling over the Carlton etc sites. To leave an entire quadrant in limbo at this location through the boom for any reason was sinful.

O’Connell St certainly has nowhere near the same welcoming atmosphere as, say, Grafton St. I mean, I’m from the inner city myself so not exactly unused to rough areas, but apart from tourists, the average Dubliner does not saunter up O’Connell St to window-shop or enjoy a coffee/brunch. And Abbey St is downright intimdating these days with gangs of junkies hanging out at the Luas stops, occasionally attacking the tram with a golf umbrella like I saw a while back.

Maybe not but uses that have enlivened the street through the boom such as the Ambassador venue and cinema etc on Parnell St west have brought Dubs up the street. Plus the random, chaotic yet thriving Parnell st east with it’s hotch potch of pubs and restaurants has given the area another dimension. From my teenage years through my early 20’s the only reason me or my friends ever ventured up O C St was to go to Fibbers. I think there’s more there now. Yeh Abbey street is a bit f’n rough alright but 20 years ago there was zilch on it apart from buses and the theatre – at least there’s a few decent pubs on Middle Abbey St nowadays… only a few mind you

Well, as I said in the my original post – it’s now been 15 years, when the country was swimming in money. For the forseeable future, the country will be paying billions in interest to artificially prop up property prices for our developer overlords. O’Connell St was shit when I was a student, it still shit (with trees) now that I’m (almost) middle-aged. There’s a difference between pessimism and realism, and I think I’m being realistic here.
P.

That’s all fair but to be specific about it, if Arnott’s and Chartered Land (??Carlton site developers??) and the the RPA are able to carry out their plans, regardless of what’s going on in the wider Irelandworld, O Connell Street will undergo major positive changes in the next 10-15 years. Obviously we all agree that this should have happened or at least started happening in 1998 when the IAP was released but good ol institutional inertia and government idiocy prevented that.

maybe when you reach middle age and old age itself you will finally get the main street you want – enjoy the stroll with your zimmer frame in 2040!!!

It gets a bit barren the further up you go. I think getting some chain to open a big fat department store near the top would be a good idea – Harvey Nichols or John Lewis, or even Brown Thomas. Banish the fast food restaurants and Spars to side streets and give subsidies to fashion retailers and good quality restaurants to set up. Force all owners to maintain their own buildings to a standard appropriate to the dignity of the street, or face closure and huge fines within one month. It’s not that hard if they have the will, and that’s why an elected mayor with real power might do wonders.

@rumpelstiltskin wrote:

It gets a bit barren the further up you go. I think getting some chain to open a big fat department store near the top would be a good idea – Harvey Nichols or John Lewis, or even Brown Thomas. Banish the fast food restaurants and Spars to side streets and give subsidies to fashion retailers and good quality restaurants to set up. Force all owners to maintain their own buildings to a standard appropriate to the dignity of the street, or face closure and huge fines within one month. It’s not that hard if they have the will, and that’s why an elected mayor with real power might do wonders.

Such powers go beyond those any Mayor will have, and are closer to those of Czar or Dictator. We would need a new constitution to confer those powers on any office.

It’s true, particularly when mayoral elections have high turnouts these directly elected Mayors can really push a lot of things forward – I remember pre-transformation Montpellier, you wouldn’t have thought in a million years they could have cleaned it up as quickly as they did. It’s a step away from committee thinking and sometimes that’s one of the major roadblocks to just doing what needs to be done.

Obviously that depends on the character of any mayor, doesn’t it. Nobody wants O’Connell St. swamped with fast food restaurants.

It’s in the power of Dublin City Council to restrict the opening hours of fast food restaurants on O’Connell St., to force them to close at, say, 7pm. And would it be sensible for a fast food outlet to remain open on that street when they could decamp to Henry St. and stay open all night?

@forrestreid wrote:

Could you quote the government Act or regulation that gives Dublin City council this power?

Obviously it doesn’t exist, and never will.
DCC tried their best to get rid of the naughty knicker shop on O’Connell St and the mobile phone shops on Grafton Street, but the only actual power they have is to create statutatory area plans which restrict future planning approval (the Carlton Site being the most recent victom of this).

The satatutory area plans (O’Connell st area plan, and special retail planning zone, or whatever it’s called) can have unwanted affects on development too by restricting the interest of developers with cash, which is contrary to the objective and reason the plans were voted for in the first place.

Its probably time for a new approach, and any intending Mayor might well try and shake a carrot at the developers rather than the stick.

@rumpelstiltskin wrote:

No, because I’m not a lawyer and it would be tedious looking for it. Besides, your own quote of a statute in Irish law was stupid, because it says nothing but that people have the right to private property. The relevant element of your argument is that the supreme court interpreted this to mean that, for example, Ann Summers could open up a sex shop wherever they liked.

However, I will give you a link to this article which I read some time ago, where it is suggested that Dublin City Council may close city centre off licences at 8pm in the interests of public health. Note that it also mentions restricting fast food opening times. Even if they don’t have this power, they clearly think they can get it very easily.

http://www.dublinpeople.com/content/view/616/55/<a href="

Not so obvious. You really think City Councils have no say over the trading hours of retailers? And never will?

You need to read between the lines in that article. DCC have the power to grant or reject planning applications, thats all. They do not have to power to revoke already granted planning applications. So it would be unfair for example to restrict opening hours of any new fast food restaurants without applying this to exisiting ones (which the council does not have the power to do). So a legal challenge might be sucessful if DCC decided to restrict any new applications which is exactly why they have Area Plans which are carefully written legal instruments to allow for restricting future planning application for certain things is what is a legally fair way. Thats the whole point fo them.
And they already exist in the case of O’connell street with limited impact.

If they could get more powers easily they would already have done it, so clearly its not so simple.” class=”bbcode_url”>

Not so obvious. You really think City Councils have no say over the trading hours of retailers? And never will?

You need to read between the lines in that article. DCC have the power to grant or reject planning applications, thats all. They do not have to power to revoke already granted planning applications. So it would be unfair for example to restrict opening hours of any new fast food restaurants without applying this to exisiting ones (which the council does not have the power to do). So a legal challenge might be sucessful if DCC decided to restrict any new applications which is exactly why they have Area Plans which are carefully written legal instruments to allow for restricting future planning application for certain things is what is a legally fair way. Thats the whole point fo them.
And they already exist in the case of O’connell street with limited impact.

If they could get more powers easily they would already have done it, so clearly its not so simple.

@rumpelstiltskin wrote:

Are you sure the council doesn’t have the power to restrict trading hours of existing businesses?

Well it’s just my own opinion, but I dont beleive they do.
They are not even able to enforce the restrictions that they attach to planning applications anyway, such as the no stickers in shopfront windows.

The only way to control the opening times of ALL fast-food restaurants for example would be to introduce a licensing system, such as that for pubs. This would have to apply to all premises and I’m not sure what the benefit would be anyway? Considering the costs involved it would be silly.

Whats wrong with fast-food anyway? What would your solution be?
I think it is preferable that they are scattered around the center of the city as this is safer at night, avoiding larger congregations of drunks and larger crowds if say there were only designated areas for last night eating.
Thats what the council want too, and that’s what the special planning zone for O’Connell St does by effectively capping the number of fastfoods at the current level.

What is your solution? And what problem are you trying to solve anyway?