O’ Connell Street, Dublin
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And where was robocop when we needed him and his see-no-evil, hear-no-evil, speak-no-evil colleagues who proved themselves so brave when knocking the shite out of a gang of hippy schoolkids on Dame Street?
Although some posters are a little wary of mixing architecture and strife on the board I would see Saturdays events in a somewhat broader context.
My view has little to do with Orange or Green as I feel that BOTH groupings are in their death throes as the New Ireland has Long Ago left BOTH floundering in it`s wake.
Todays O Connell St is far more likely to comfortably play host to a Chinese Falun Dafa protest or a Nigerian anti-deportation petition table than anything to do with our own limited sense of where we are at in terms of Nationalism or for that matter Loyalism.
What is FAR more impostant to me is the nuts and bolts of how this Capital City is managed and policed on the broad front.Already we have quite a contradiction appearing bewteen the City Council and An Garda Siochana.
We have had an Asst Garda Commissioner (How many have they got? ),Al McHugh and a senior City Council engineering toff,Charles Lowe each strongly contending that they had absolutely NO idea that any roughage was imminent.
However as was apparent from last Wednesday night,somebody in authority DID have an idea of what was coming and managed to order the sealing-up of ALL City Centre litter bins in preparation.Of course this instruction may well have come from An Garda Siochana,but if it did then it raises the spectre of an Assistant Commissioner not being aware of the views of other Senior Officers and their course of recommended action.
With both the “New Improved” Easter Parade and the “Traditional” St Patricks Day Festivities now imminent we really do need to know NOW what the abilities of both Council and Garda Siochana really are.
Its worth considering that Saturdays events was only the latest in quite a little line of Tactical Misadventures for An Garda Siochana and the regularity of these should certainly be giving cause for concern in relation to the Training and Motivation being instilled in the force
Perhaps most worrying is the ongoing acceptance which Garda Management appear to have with deploying unprotected members to Police contentious public order situations
The same Senior Garda “Sources” are to be found in the media venting to atmosphere on the business of Checking The CCTV footage in order to identify individuals.
The reality of CCTV in this instance is that even if individuals are pictured smiling as they lift a Granite Slab there is virtually No Chance of securing a conviction based on CCTV footage alone.
The courts will require FULL witness and corraborative evidence BEFORE even considering a custodial sentance or even a Fine.Perhaps this will give Mr McDowell an opportunity to bring forward the Garda Caution procedure which will no doubt reduce the Criminal Classes to a quivering lump of Chivers Jelly as a Senior Garda wags a disapproving finger and issues yet another “Last Chance” warning…..
If the Senior Gardai and City Admistration can manage to loosen their (masonic?) garter enough to pull up their socks then we might manage to secure a real advance in public order and safety provision in the Capital.
However I remain firmly rooted in the Korean camp…:eek:Not sure I would agree with the remarks about a New Ireland – this is true for us in the south as we have had a good few decades of political and economic stability behind us at this stage and, of course, this is to be welcomed. Long may our progress out of the pit of De Valera’s Celtic vision continue. In that regard, we are probably in the comfortable position of enjoying a new Ireland here in the Republic and certainly should be now mature enough to see a borader more European political spectrum.
That said, though, it is a hard slap in the face to our northern country-men to simply disown them and their sometimes contorted political reality simply because they were born on ‘the wrong side of the border’. To be honest, in my opinion it is a very selfish attitude which basically says ‘fxxk you’ to our northern counterparts as we drive away into the southern sunset in our new Mercedes cars. If they have a different, more ‘backward’, more ‘limited’, or provincial or primitive vision of political reality it is because they have grown up in a system which did not offer them anything else. We should at least try to understand that they have not been blessed with the same social and political secuirty as we have and not just damn them as raving lunatics. This, of course, is not to excuse what happened in Dublin – if they were true Republicans they could at least have respected their ‘true’ (?) capital city and their country people. But equally so, if they are dismissed as somehow illegimate Irish people not wanted by Britain and now not wanted in the Republic, why would they show respect to the Gardai or to Dublin and its inhabitants. It is quite arrogant just to dismiss them and their opinions, no matter how distastefully expressed, just because some of us have been more fortunate in where we were born on this island and didn’t have to contend with a society messed up by discrimination, militarism, and injustice.
In that regard, what is evident in some of the above posts is that if we are in a new post-Republican/post-unionist economically progressive Ireland, then it is a new Ireland also marked by a distinct and not so attractive crass selfishness which does little more than isolate those already isolated in a part of a country which they feel they rightfully belong to.
And before anyone accuses me of being nothing more than a Shin Feiner (would make a change from being accused of a Me Feiner, I suppose), this is not some form of an apology for Republicanism or what happened in Dublin. It is rather a comment on the self-centered ‘we are alright down here because we are rich now and don’t give a fxxk anymore’ mentality which pervades some of the above posts. Maybe what happened in Dublin was a little reminder to the conceited that not everyone has had it so good on this island.
the thing I keep hearing about these ironbars being used to smash people and property, its those shiny bollards from oconnel street!
I don’t agree with Alek Smart’s assertion that nobody will be convicted on the basis of CCTV footage. Video evidence is used to support prosecutions every day of the week in the courts. If someone is reasonably identifiable on video committing a crime, they will be convicted.
Organisers to consider restaging march
27 February 2006 20:11
The organisers of the disrupted Love Ulster rally in Dublin are due to meet tonight to discuss whether they will attempt to restage the march.Members of the Families Acting for Innocent Relatives group says they will discuss their options following the weekend violence in the capital. A spokesman for the group, Willie Frazer, told RTÉ News they did not want to see a repeat of the riots.
This afternoon, the Northern Secretary said he believed Saturday’s violence in Dublin was a bad one-off event rather than some pattern for the future.
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Peter Hain said he would not let the weekend trouble deflect him from seeking to successfully conclude political negotiations in Northern Ireland.
The DUP’s deputy leader, Peter Robinson, has indicated he does not believe the postponed rally should be restaged in Dublin.
Garda report
A Garda report into the riots, to be received by Justice Minister Michael McDowell, will be brought to Cabinet tomorrow morning.
Mr McDowell has already said that he expects further arrests to be made in relation to the garda investigation this week.
Gardaà have been studying closed circuit television footage from across the capital, which contains images of rioting and looting. 42 people were arrested and gardaà expect to make further arrests in the coming days.
Earlier today, the union representing rank and file gardaà called for an independent investigation into the contingency plans that were put in place by gardaà at senior management level for the loyalist march.
Speaking on RTÉ Radio’s Morning Ireland, the President of the Garda Representative Association, Dermot O’Donnell, said his members wanted the matter referred to the Health and Safety Authority.
Mr O’Donnell said he would contact the authority to ask it to investigate if the lives of gardaà were put in danger, adding that he believed there was not enough gardaà on the streets of Dublin on the day.
No advance warning: McHugh
The gardaà have defended the force’s handling of the Love Ulster parade and say they had no advance knowledge that protests on that scale were planned.
Speaking yesterday, the Assistant Garda Commissioner, Al McHugh, said intelligence did not indicate there would be violence on such a scale.
Mr McDowell said he accepted that gardaà had no advance knowledge that rioting was planned.
He added there would not be a public inquiry, but said the force needed to learn from what had happened.
Retailers in Dublin city centre estimate the riots will result in them losing millions of euro.
A number of shops and offices were damaged and looted during the violent protests.
The Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, has condemned the riots.
Dr Martin said there was something frightening in seeing organised violence on our streets.
Ding Ding
It’s not Ceasers Palace as much as Richard Quirke would like to think it is
And where was robocop when we needed him and his see-no-evil, hear-no-evil, speak-no-evil colleagues who proved themselves so brave when knocking the shite out of a gang of hippy schoolkids on Dame Street?
that was also a riot, it seems you want different treatment for the working classes and the anarchist mobs – class tribalism, I suspect. I am happy to see either get the shite kicked out of them if they damage the city centre and attack the police first: although, to be fair, the anarchists did not stop me shopping unlike this crowd.
Given all that’s happened if anyone else feels that a military parade for Easter 1916 is inappropriate, you can register your oposition here:
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/no_military_parade/
Thanks
PeterIt would appear that a certain self-styled Grecian arcade provided much of the ammunition for the fun and games – unintentionally of course. Never would security permit so many snooker tables be rendered useless I’m quite quite sure.
Not that this really relates to development on the street, but what really baffles me about all of this is the fact that the parade was permitted to take place on a building site. Of course this has been said time and time again since the events and with the benefit of the 20/20 vision of hindsight, but whilst it might not have struck most of us, the public, beforehand, it most certainly ought to have struck the Garda
Was there not a mini-riot in Grafton Street on St Patrick’s day a few years ago, also fuelled by lose bricks from interminable roadworks?
Why not have the next Orange parade in Croke Park, available on pay-per-view? I’d watch it.
Colliseum Part II
@Frank Taylor wrote:
interminable roadworks
Indeed if any good has come of these events it has been the bringing to wider public attention the ludicrous timeframe of the O’Connell Street Project. Amongst other media outings, a gloriously ranting e-mail made it through to Pat Kenny this morning regarding the IAP works that really put the authorities to shame.
a gloriously ranting e-mail made it through to Pat Kenny this morning regarding the IAP works that really put the authorities to shame.
Graham , from Dundalk, perchance?
Correct Andrew P,Video evidence is indeed used to “Support” prosecutions,however in this instance the suggestion is that somehow the Gardai will be able to nail a great many gougers merely on Video Shots alone….and that will not happen.
The Gardai can and do use Vid to support an accusation however it does not necessarily follow that a Judge has to attach ANY credence to that footage and in many cases a defence counsel will seek to have such footage restricted in its viewing to exclude the Jury.
The Law and particularly great big pus infected lumps of Irish Civil and Criminal law is not easily modernised or modified and the lower orders are more than well aware of those deficiencies.
Mar Shà mpla..do u think Bus Atha Cliath CCTV cameras manage to capture images of ANY persons smoking on its Buses…It sure certainly does and by the skipload too….
Can the company bring a successful prosecution on the basis of this Live,In-Your-Face evidence ?
Not on your life it can`t.
The offence must be witnessed either by an Bus Inspector,an Authorized Departmental Official,a Member of an Garda Siochana and only then can the No Smoking leglislation take its full course.
The reality of Last Saturday is that the Majority of those who took an active and well thought out part in the rioting can walk away secure in the knowledge that there is nothing the State can,or want`s to do about it.
There are SO many holes in the official story regarding Lack of Preparedness now that a half-decent Defence Lawyer would stick it right up the Garda collective backside and then move on to submit a statement of claim in relation to negligence on the part of the City Council resulting in his poor bewildered clients having to lash out in order to clear a path to safety etc etc…
Again the simple question…”Who ordered the sealing-up of the City Centre Litter Bins last Wednesday and what was the rationale behind that order ? “.
Whether it was preparedness or fear,that decision reflected a level of concern that Asst Commissioner McHugh and City Council Luminaries INSIST was not there.Mind U,its good to see City Manager John Fitzgerald sufficiently aroused to speak about the Council having to return for another look at restrictive leglislation regarding public gatherings on O Connell St.
Last time the Corpo tried that tactic they had to drop it quick-sharp after the Liberal Elite took umbrage at perhaps Senator Proffessor Norris being refused permission to perambulate along the street in pursuit of such hedonistic delights as Lambs Liver and Black Puddin of a Bloomsday…..which my friends presents the greater threat ?????
J Fitz must have been refering to……
Ahern denies gardaà were ill-prepared
28 February 2006 17:42
The Taoiseach has denied opposition claims that gardaà were ill-prepared for the riots in Dublin city centre on Saturday afternoon.Bertie Ahern told the Dáil that the numbers involved in the riots could not have been foreseen by gardaÃ. He condemned what he called an orgy of violence, insisting that the disturbances had been organised.
The Taoiseach told TDs that those involved would not have moved quickly from O’Connell St to Kildare St without someone ‘calling the shots’.
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Mr Ahern said there had been extensive consultation with Dublin City Council about securing the building site on O’Connell St.
He denied suggestions from Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny that the low key approach of gardaà had been a flawed one.
Mr Ahern said more than 300 gardaà as well as back up units had been on duty to police a parade of some 350 people.
He said some 50 to 70 republican counter-demonstrators had turned into a crowd of several hundred, many of whom had been drinking and that development could not have been foreseen.
Earlier, the Cabinet also heard that gardaà had no reason to expect the violence that erupted in protest at Saturday’s Love Ulster march in Dublin.
The Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell, briefed ministers on a garda report into the disturbances this morning.
The preliminary garda report deals with preparations for the march and maintains that officers had no intelligence that suggested that large-scale disturbances were likely.
It points to the involvement of large numbers of rioters wearing Celtic tops who had been drinking in nearby pubs and who dramatically swelled the ranks of the initial troublemakers.
Gardaà are not yet in a position to say who was responsible for instigating the violence, but it is likely that Mr McDowell will suggest that republican elements have to shoulder the blame.
The Garda Representative Association yesterday called for an independent investigation into the contingency plans that were put in place for the loyalist march.
42 people were arrested on Saturday in connection with the violence and further arrests are expected.
I don’t believe that there was any consultation whatsoever
Anyway, back to O’Connell street…..
Here’s how its going to look after the Metro arrives in 2012(??). The proposed lines are shown in this parochially-named RPA newsletter.
For the Love Ulster parade of 2012, all of us Northsiders will have much faster access to the action.
Interesting Montage….bears little semblence to reality! Would love to see that terrace on the right hand side – which does not exist!
Rest assured – the metro will never happen…. even if it does, 2012 is an optimistic estimate for delivery…
Just some pics of the riot damage. Luckily pretty much all of it was superficial – the public domain was ‘just’ made very very untidy rather than any lasting damage being done to furnishings or infrastructure. Not even pavements seem to be chipped which is a relief.
The shops that had their wondows smashed are Clarks, Foot Locker, Schuh, Eddie Rockets (minor), former Fingal HQ, and Findlater House. All of the street frontage of Fingal is now boarded up – don’t think it was like that before the riots.
A few scorch marks in places, and there’s a distinct burnt smell about the place. The only real damage in the public domain is a lamppost next to Sir John Grey, which a fire was lit against. It’s going to have to be stripped and repainted in matching paint please!
Some bins took a bit of a battering – unfortunately for the sake of a few nastly dents whole units are going to have to be replaced.
Most of the remaining rubble has been cleared to the median behind O’Connell Monument. None of the monuments have a scratch on them.The CC got in there impressively fast on Saturday to clean up, and all of the tree beds have already been re-gritted too.
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