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    • #706762
      garethace
      Participant

      Four Corners growth spurs city to shape its direction

      City Approves Largest New Urbanist Development

      Top national planner says Durango’s “epic plan” would be a smart-growth “benchmark.”

      http://www.denverpost.com/cda/article/print/0,1674,36%257E33%257E1909288,00.html

    • #739913
      Anonymous
      Participant

      It looks interesting,

      Better planned than anything thats ever been done here. The hospital should if nothing else provide the nucleus for development. I heard a lot of people saying they bought investments in Tallaght ‘because the apartments were beside a hospital’

      Reckon existing house prices will adjust a little all the same.

    • #739914
      garethace
      Participant

      Imagine living someplace like America though, where everyplace is only as old as Tallaght? Reading the article I was struck very much by the way, they profiled the incomes of the residents, and how the city or town was only founded in the 1920s! At least Tallaght may have been a farm land or village or something long before 1920. Talking about anchor projects;

      http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-casino25jan25,1,3760846.story?coll=la-headlines-california

      America is a strange place where you have the juxtaposition of ancient tribes of Indians and brand new mass scale development.

      Hoping to transform the city into a vast entertainment district, the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians is seeking permission to turn a square-mile portion of the downtown core into a multibillion-dollar complex featuring high-rises, shopping malls, restaurants, a theme park and a second casino.

      what we need here in Dublin is people like the ‘Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians’.

      I wonder will they being doing something like this for Tallaght and LUAS someday soon?

      http://policy.rutgers.edu/vtc/tod/transitvillages.htm

      I think Tallaght might become a bit like Galway or LImerick in future – a relocation habitat.

      http://www.expansionmanagement.com/smo/newsviewer/default.asp?cmd=articledetail&articleid=15964

      In America, the traditional place for industry was in the north and the southern states were poor in comparison. Nowadays places like Atlanta (Olympics fame) are becoming attractive for company HQ relocation. Parts of Ireland has been a bit like that for a few years now.

      Notice the ‘more details’ bit down at the end, where each city or area, has a web site, a bit like the Corporation/council web sites here, detailing exactly what the area has to offer in terms of services, strategic qualities etc, etc.

    • #739915
      garethace
      Participant

      null

    • #739916
      Anonymous
      Participant

      It would appear that Atlanta, has acheived quite a distibution of industrial sectors and services.

      The distribution centre doesn’t seem to exist here with the exception of the Geodis/IBM project. Which I have had personal experience of, not a good experience either.

      The New Jersey development model looks well thought out as a result of the multi-disciplinary/agency approach employed.

      Quote “The Transit Village Initiative is a program that seeks to revitalize and grow selected communities with transit as an anchor.”

      In spatial terms “The Transit Village Initiative fits into the larger smart growth agenda in New Jersey because it helps to promote the growth of businesses and residential population around existing (or planned, in one case) transportation infrastructure investments.”

      Sandyford you just can’t beat such visionary planning, all it needs is an airport

    • #739917
      garethace
      Participant

      Along with the Cathedrals thread,I am beginning to see now, that New Urbanism takes in many, many concerns and points of view in its approach to urbanism. I suppose that is why a new urbanism theory is necessary, the old one obviously was too naive about the reality of modern cities.

      I might have had a tendency to pigeon hole theories like New Urbanism – but the more I learn about it, in discussions like this, the wider and more useful its definition seems to be becoming.

      I mean, thinking about that convention centre thing again, the transit infrastructure and how people are likely to arrive at such venues, I think this particular site to do with Calatrava and ‘transit hubs’ is a good discussion point. I mean, what exactly does our Calatrava thing do?

      Nice site that too in general, good features.

    • #739918
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Amsterdam is in my opinion proof that new urbanism is very much alive.

      Schipol is always a pleasure as a transit airport and moves more cargo than Heathrow with half the number of passengers.

      The real obstruction to quality urban form emerging here is the country’s inability to plan strategically.

      The inability to resist the temptation to build major traffic generators at important road intersections.

      The result being the carbased society derived from our urban sprawl. Work Sandyford and live in Rathcoole seems to be about the height of our vision. :confused:

    • #739919
      garethace
      Participant

      Cement Factory Roundabout, Raheen Roundabout, Red Cow Roundabout, Walkinstown roundabout … worth a thread on its own, to list all the horror stories that are roundabouts these days.

      The result being the carbased society derived from our urban sprawl. Work Sandyford and live in Rathcoole seems to be about the height of our vision.

      Work in IBM Blandardstown and live in Ballsbridge,… hmmm, yeah that is tough for a buddy of mine. Still these places are not that great a distance apart from one another. The further you get out of Dublin though, the more stretched that commuting distance has become for lots of young people, who decide to drive hundreds of miles each day. We are a very strange race, no doubts about that. I hope the party lasts.

      One fine day, though I imagine we will have to really pay the piper for not searching and encouraging smarter, denser and more economical models of development. I think it is great to have IBM in Blancardstown, it is nice to know it is there at all providing some work, but that is just stage one of what should be a much larger plan I guess.

      Nice article

    • #739920
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Excellent article,

      I really think that we need to think fundamentaly about how we view this city as a region. I agree that the real problems of the future are the Carlows and Kingscourts.

      I think DCC understand new urban but that like everything else developers will develop where the greatest profits are to be made. In reality that is Tullamore vs Townsend St.

      In Ireland everyone is obsessed with house prices, while little is known about urban land markets.

      That is in my opinion the root problem, and what compounds the problem are the LA’s such as DLRCC and SDCC in particular who will grant permission for Sandyfords and ParkWests years before the transit is in place.

      This leads to a situation that when roads are eventually put into place, they start life afflicted by gridlock.

      I welcome all the IBM investments in Ireland, they are an excellent employer but this State has served them poorly. It is the yellowpack policies on infrastructure that greatly endanger this and other ‘fast food strategy’ IT industries.

    • #739921
      garethace
      Participant

      Well, hence why I constantly moan and groan about the ‘yellow pack’ approach to information technology training and infrastructure in our own little humble profession here of Architecture. I guess I am just more attuned to that at the moment, and for a while now, than I have been to the reality facing this country in terms of transit infrastructure.

      I think you need to think of the whole entire picture of information technology infrastructure – how qualified people, and what people you use to meet this need – and how information technology in turn could be crucial in achieving and implementing so many of the visions you have described.

      I loath, with a passion this approach of the ‘VIZ architect’. Some kind of a monstrousity created out of AutoDesk PR brochures and bad advertising campaigns on the back covers of Architects’ Journal publications. I think, not only does this undermine real people, with real contributions to make in these areas of computing design tools – but also the Architects themselves, who are already emburdened by so much weight of problems to deal with, than worrying about Radiosity and Ray Tracing packages too.

      We, as a profession, are going to do a whole lot of wheel spinning here for the forseeable future. What amazed me is the upcoming generations of Bolton Street/UCD/Queens computer savy graduates cannot see beyond the marketing slogans either. I try to keep very much abreast of developments in the American Architectural profession, where they build/design environments and projects on a much larger scale, much more frequently than we do here in this very small island.

      My buddy wda over at CGA, described Ireland as being ‘like a Milwaukee’. Dunno what that means, but I intend to find out some time. 🙂

    • #739922
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I agree,

      There was a business strategy professor from UCD interviewed recently, and bemoaned the fact that most BCOMM undergraduates would write reams and reams in exams basically explaining what the buzz words meant, as opposed to adopting a theorom based approach of constructing a model displaying how a change in one component would affect the entire.

      Sadly it is little different in specific sectors here I fear, I think that the exterior of buildings should be the last area of design to be examined. However many software packages lead you directly to the facade and work back.

      It is not much different with development patterns here, we often see the shiny plans without calculating the effects of the completed buildings.

      It has cost us dearly,

    • #739923
      garethace
      Participant

      Straping things together, wrapping it all up.

      1) The openings as an event, light as an element of architecture – even in a small building designed by an architect – you rarely see a good architect who makes a name designing houses and other small buildings, reaching for a standard collection of windows to plaster on an elevation, and position/use them in a conventional manner.

      This needs to be studied by all young architects – elevations, don’t just have funny fenestration and shapes of openings for the fun of it – when you walk into those buildings, which are well designed, you see when you are inside the building, very quickly why openings are where they are, why they are that size or shape and how light is manipulated by them in the interior space.

      2) There are some experiences of buildings here in Ireland, which are well designed and incorporate the idea of time. I like to walk from the old part of the National Gallery of Ireland and exit out onto Nassau Street side. I like to walk from Nassau Street through Trinity out to College Green. I like to walk through the Powerscourt centre, the IFC, curved Street and Meeting house square. It is even nice to walk from the back entrance of wood quay out through the front entrance.

      So when you are ‘trying to conceive’ of something in three dimensions in a computer model – the time dimension, is something which you are aware of consciously. Even a small structure – is normally much larger than a single human form, so that it implies as we move around/through/above/under a structure – that contributes to the experience, as well as the point 1) above in relation to enclosure.

      3) Open public space – inner city, inner suburban, outer suburban and landscape. It is not enough to think of the experience of space from the point of view of one individual moving through both time and space. On must accept the idea of ‘crowds’ navigating, negotiating the human designed environment all around us. Places like UCD, Trinity and many streets in Dublin are places where you can sense, the idea of open space becoming a kind of room or institution, which many people use.

      See my points about Medieval Total War and walking cities etc, etc.

      Now,

      I think, the underlying variable in all of these points is about relating to architecture in some physical, real, space and time experience. The only difference is the scale at which this happens. Without the exercise of learning to perceive space, without these ‘hooks’ as I would describe them into reality – the whole point of computer design software is ultimately lost.

      The great thing about the 3 points above, is that you can study, learn and devote portions of your time to all the above without actually needing a computer at all. But a pencil and sketchbook would be handy. If AutoDesk were to pay me, I would re-write their manuals to accompany these softwares for architects. In my tutorials, the potential user of the software, would not sit in front of a screen for months, until most of the above conditions of learning and awareness were met.

      The learning of how to click the buttons, recognises commands, icons etc, etc, etc is only a ‘tack-on’ the very end of the above process. Potential software users, would be made to ‘lift their asses’ from in front of the computer system. Unfortunately, VIZ-ualisation and computer software courses currently available to architects in this regard, are most usually run by some ‘god awful representative of the engineering profession’, or someone who works for AutoDesk. Making them effectively useless to architects, and excluding anyone except the youngest geeks from thriving.

      You can be damned sure, the course in computers for Architects, IS NOT tied carefully into any of the above 3 points. Using software without learning to see, to begin with is futile. But hundreds of young undergrads and grads have to no choice, than to take this very poor approach to learning advanced design software. You cannot polish a turd – but unfortunately, that is something that computer software is more frequently being used for these days. In particularly, by the youngest, brightest and more energetic members of the architectural profession, who should be learning to explore the rich reality around them. Than going square-eyed in front of the latest VIZ upgrade interface.

      What worries me nowadays, is that any young architect in practice who wishes to ‘visualise’ something runs the risk of being reported to the office boss, “For doing 3D” on office hours. I.e. That only outsourcing of 3D is allowed – a whole rich repetoire of skills, perception and dedication, once associated with the architectural profession, is becoming more associated with third party rendering service providers.

      Which of course, is wonderful for Architects, who,

      1) don’t possess any visualisation or drawing skills themselves.

      2) don’t care to try and acquire those skills.

      3) don’t like those drawing, sketching, visual methods/skills.

      An area, which interests me very much, is the notion of architects, using freehand sketching – develop the technique of ‘providing the roughs’ to ultimately make good computer visuals to the professional VIZ-ualist, who owns the expensive kit, the license, the training etc. That what the architect could provide in ‘rough format’ via pencil and paper, could become the foundation for what the VIZ-ualist will ultimately produce.

      Rather than this approach, of asking the VIZ-ualist to ‘do something’ and truncating the relationship there. That sickens me, quite frankly. If you look at Hollywood, where most of the CG is done – the director has his/her own personal ‘sketch artist’, who does these ‘story boards’ which are sent straight to the ‘Animation and Light Studios’ or whatever, and the end result rarely lchanges that much from the rough 3D sketch visual.

      I must post some better links to show this some time I get a chance.

    • #739924
      FIN
      Participant

      in my college computer skills were secondry. there was a big emphasis on sketching and were always told that an architect can’t design on a computer hence now i have to sketch everything before i can even draw it in 2d. u are right however that in office work it’s mainly concerned on 2d work with all the big 3d stuff going out to some nerd. we only get to do small colour renderings and if lucky and on our own time do a 3d of some projects.

    • #739925
      garethace
      Participant

      I compiled the above post specifically for people like yourself to think about. Note the Point No. 1) above.

      You refered to your attraction of seeing ‘the building in context’ before now. Well, I hope if you look into Ching, perhaps play around with VIZ or similar software, and choose a couple of well designed public buildings in your area – you might begin to see the design opportunities which exist, when just dealing with the building itself. There are many, and CHing does a great job of highlighting them all.

      I mean, look at the buildings, important public buildings you now, designed in the modern style by a good architect. Look at them from the outside – you will always think, “Now why are all the openings different? Why are the openings funny proportions, shapes and in strange places?”

      Like for instance, with a window that turns a corner. Or a long narrow strip of window,which rises from the floor to the height of your knee, and provides a clean wall surface above that, to mount stuff on the wall.

      Try it, it is really fun and makes you think, the next time you see an elevation drawing in the office, at why you draw your openings, the way you do.

      Sketch book essential when visiting said, well-designed modern public building to record thoughts about how the architect thought about openings, natural light illumination and views out.

      I love very small windows too – just a view as you pass etc. Doors surrounded by glass walls – kind of a contradication – but modernism, does all of those things – keep your eyes open. THere are design opportunities at 1:100 scale – but because that traditionally has been the submission requirement scale in colleges – that scale of designing can become very ‘dead and liveless’ to students.

      Re-invigorate your appetite and creativity for designing small things or parts of things, at large scales, using the technique I have just described.

      Sitting down in a space, should the openings be designed in relation to that height? SInce you may be sitting down most of the time.

      etc,

      Remember there is probably more thought put into a few square metres portion of a whole building, by good architects, than in an entire building designed by a poor architect, no architect or spec developer often.

      In fact, I would go so far as to say, that Richard Meier and other architect use small building projects, or house design projects to test details and materials, which they will replicate as details on huge buildings. I often think, that a small Meier house, is just like a chunk of a larger Meier institutional structure, that got misplaced somewhere in the middle of a landscape.

      A place with loads, and loads and loads of these things, is the National Gallery extension in Nassau Street. In particular the little box, which acts like a porch at the front. It is like a very nice small building in itself – and acts as an intermediary zone between the huge street like place inside the Gallery, and Nassau Street, a threshold if you will.

    • #739926
      garethace
      Participant

      Good painter.

      https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2688

      Integrating not windows, if you don’t have windows, but even paintings into interior spaces is a worthwhile activity.

    • #739927
      garethace
      Participant

      2) There are some experiences of buildings here in Ireland, which are well designed and incorporate the idea of time. I like to walk from the old part of the National Gallery of Ireland and exit out onto Nassau Street side. I like to walk from Nassau Street through Trinity out to College Green. I like to walk through the Powerscourt centre, the IFC, curved Street and Meeting house square. It is even nice to walk from the back entrance of wood quay out through the front entrance.

      So when you are ‘trying to conceive’ of something in three dimensions in a computer model – the time dimension, is something which you are aware of consciously. Even a small structure – is normally much larger than a single human form, so that it implies as we move around/through/above/under a structure – that contributes to the experience, as well as the point 1) above in relation to enclosure.

      Just something else,

      On the large scale, at 1:500 scale people relate to their environment every bit as much as they do as at the 1:50 scale. Take a large urban OS sheet at 1:1000 scale – a young, fit, healthy person can easily walk around that map in reality. This ability to move around, also applies to the vertical dimension, or for that matter, the combination of vertical and horizontal movement.

      See the Steven Holl scheme for Berlin Library, or any of Holl’s work. Which do incorporate a vast amount of different movement vectors in all dimensions. What upsets me, is often people speak about the ‘designs of Steven Holl’ without considering obvious facets of those designs. You cannot begin to understand Holl’s Berlin Library building project, without accepting the notion that people move a lot in all dimensions.

      Otherwise, if you don’t view the design in this way – it becomes just another crazy architectural graphic. The Cranbrook extension scheme by Holl is another example of a design where movement vectors of people are central. The quite similar Iowa Art Gallery by Meier, or his Getty centre are similar. We often under estimate or even neglect that movement coefficient as spatial designers. Ed Bacon in his book deals almost exclusively with that notion.

      The second visual on this page here, sort of says this idea well, for a computer visual.

      http://www.cgarchitect.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000085

    • #739928
      garethace
      Participant

      1) The openings as an event, light as an element of architecture – even in a small building designed by an architect – you rarely see a good architect who makes a name designing houses and other small buildings, reaching for a standard collection of windows to plaster on an elevation, and position/use them in a conventional manner.

      This needs to be studied by all young architects – elevations, don’t just have funny fenestration and shapes of openings for the fun of it – when you walk into those buildings, which are well designed, you see when you are inside the building, very quickly why openings are where they are, why they are that size or shape and how light is manipulated by them in the interior space.

      Just an imagine to back up that notion.

      http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=next_topic;f=4;t=000101;go=newer

      Not an very daring design I know, but still. It is still all to do with the notion of wearing our environment as an extension of ourselves – it is just the scale changes, from 1:50 scale where natural light is important and size, shape, position of openings. To 1:500 where things like movement and time are very important.

    • #739929
      garethace
      Participant
    • #739930
      garethace
      Participant

      Sustainability. 🙂

      suburbia

    • #739931
      garethace
      Participant

      Those who hope that suburbia is finally growing up and starting to behave itself often cite this much-quoted line: “Edge cities mean that density is back,” taken from Joel Garreau’s 1991 book Edge City: Life on the New Frontier. Many smart growth proponents who call for higher-density, mixed-use suburbs are especially invested in the idea that maturing edge cities represent a potentially promising future. The reality, however, is that sprawl is back—or, more accurately, that it never went away.

      Good paper on edgeless cities

      Shocking stuff today, on news about Islam religious gatherings to throw stones at ‘pillars of evil’. Some really awesome footage of ‘crowds of 2 million pedestrians’. Who says, people power isn’t awesome when it is on that scale.

      It is rare to see this nowadays though, given that things like Medieval Warfare died a death in WWI. Before that huge formations of armies would regularly march together like some gigantic beast.

      One good example of that here in Dublin, is the North Circular Road – designed for the large numbers of ‘dragoons, calavry, infantry formations’ to quickly access various different parts of the city, from their barrack areas around the Phoenix Park.

    • #739932
      Anonymous
      Participant

      That is so true about both Circular roads. very efficient system for a Landing on the North Wall or Dunlaoire as all the bases were within 400 metres of each circular road.

      On one of the transport planning papers I did in College I devised a proposal to make both circular roads (nth&Sth) QBCs linking at the new Macken St bridge.

      This would have facilitated someone working in Clondalkin the opportunity to leave a bus at Kilmainham and board a direct bus to either phibsboro or Mount St bridge. It also would have cut the time required by buses in the city centre dramatically.

      That is the major problem we have in this city is that we cannot get away from a radial mindset. With a vague secondary consideration to where the airport is.

      We view the city as two units i.e D1 and D2 (with a little D7 thrown into D1 and a little D4 thrown into D2) In Stark contrast London uses the much clearer EC1 or SW2 area designation and people there understand it very well.

      I think that unless planners begin to understand how to contextualise the huge numbers of people that move around every working day; it will only deteriorate further. Although I doubt stampedes will occur
      simply billions lost in productivity

    • #739933
      Anonymous
      Participant

      That is so true about both Circular roads. very efficient system for a Landing on the North Wall or Dunlaoire as all the bases were within 400 metres of each circular road.

      On one of the transport planning papers I did in College I devised a proposal to make both circular roads (nth&Sth) QBCs linking at the new Macken St bridge.

      This would have facilitated someone working in Clondalkin the opportunity to leave a bus at Kilmainham and board a direct bus to either phibsboro or Mount St bridge. It also would have cut the time required by buses in the city centre dramatically.

      That is the major problem we have in this city is that we cannot get away from a radial mindset. With a vague secondary consideration to where the airport is.

      We view the city as two units i.e D1 and D2 (with a little D7 thrown into D1 and a little D4 thrown into D2) In Stark contrast London uses the much clearer EC1 or SW2 area designation and people there understand it very well.

      I think that unless planners begin to understand how to contextualise the huge numbers of people that move around every working day; it will only deteriorate further. Although I doubt stampedes will occur
      simply billions lost in productivity

    • #739934
      garethace
      Participant

      Another point worth making, is about the ‘band of concerned aesthetic police’ that boards like Archiseek and articles by Frank tend to facilitate.

      This thread proves me point

      As if the designer/engineer in any of these cases could have done much to address the larger problem of how urban space/environments and factory zones are laid out. They aren’t ugly buildings, they are perhaps better qualified as low density forms of development.

    • #739935
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Thats a pretty good fruit market, I have been in a few identical interiors over the years. The exterior as pretty bland but then again logistics architecture tends to be as functionality dominates.

      It is right that we have aesthetic police in urban centres, but particular uses such as wholesale fruitmarkets cannot compete in a ‘bid rent’ situation. Base line offices 40 psf residential 25psf industrial 12 max psf.

      The fyffes building between the corpo mkt and Chuch St is a perfect example of latent site value. However the city can support a covent garden type market that is a mix between veg for topend restaurants/public (snobs) and cafes.

      The trick with large scale distribution centres is to site them close to the airtport and entrance to the port tunnel. Where they have a minimal effect on other land user groups. 🙂

    • #739936
      garethace
      Participant

      Take that whole area around the fruit/veg markets – what do you have, an area that shuts down everynight – the old Smithfield, Arran Quay upper/lower, Broadstone and the old N. King St. Church street. Some pretty dead areas in an inner city I think anyone will agree.

      I mean, gradually over a long period, I guess people just stopped walking anywhere near/around that fruit/veg market area and it and its surroundings became dilappidated. I would argue the same of Moore St. Contrary to popular culture – Moore Street makes pedestrian avoid that area completely – the dirt, stink, noise, mess and hassle of going anywhere near there is just too off-putting. Result, total disuse and dilapidation of the surrounding area – Parnell St, O’Connell St, Illac centre etc. Camden St, same – street is a mess and the presence of that market created a small pocket where noone really went if they could help it. Thomas St market and surrounding market streets – similar – an area of too-quiet, dead sort of closed down shops and dodgy pubs after trading hours.

      I don’t care how much colour markets have, I don’t care how much ‘street activity’ selling bulk loads of toilet rolls generates – you have to look at other cities like Barcelona and french/english cities where the markets were somewhat better integrated and tidied up. The markets in Dublin despite all their RTE celebrity are stinking holes.

      I mean, those two or three flower sellling places on Grafton Street make me sick – they deliberately shove you into a space about 2 feet wide, covering the entrances to two useful pedestrian side streets from Grafton street, just so they can sell their stinking ould flowers to fat-cat housewifes. They should be fecked off the street and allow the streets off Grafton to flow and function to relieve pedestrian congestion. It is a disgrace. You will notice those streets off Grafton St, have never really developed, as a result of flower sellers blocking it up.

      You talk about pedestrian movement and transit, we have to stop being overly naive about street sellers in this city and basically stop them taking over pedestrian routes, just so they can turn over a profit – without paying a cent in rent. They have been overly sentimentalised in popular culture in Dublin – pulling out this molley malone nostalgia thing. I think part of Baggot St has this problem too.

      I think that unless planners begin to understand how to contextualise the huge numbers of people that move around every working day; it will only deteriorate further. Although I doubt stampedes will occur
      simply billions lost in productivity

      I mean, the purpose of pedestrian ways or traffic is that – to accomodate efficient and enjoyable, if possible, motion of human bodies without the need for an internal combustion engine involves – obescity etc, etc. Not so that every lunch going office suit in Dublin, has to trip over f*** flower pots every lunch hour of their lifes. I think it would be very possible to use computer simulation to study the effect of those unscrupulous, dis-graceful flower re-sellers on Grafton st. Leave blocking off Streets to the Gardai people.

      We as architects have been very naive too, in not integrating the subject of human bodily movement into the curriculums in architectural colleges. People like Le Corbusier, Holl, Koolhaas have totally built their designs around the needs of human beings for movment on foot. The street traders of Dublin city are not as naive, and if any city is an example of naivity towards street traders, it is Dublin. How long does it take one to get from one end of O’Connell St to the other? Given the amount of rubbish and flower stands you have to negotiate? I mean, O’Connell St, should be a clean slate from top to bottom – I fear the new ‘monument’ spire is just yet another example of ‘this cluttering mentality’ the is integrated into much of Dublin’s ideas about space, and its use pedestrian by pedestrians.

      I constantly reference the millenium wing of the National Gallery, it is for all intents and purpose like a stepped streets with various levels, but no god damn street traders with their pots of flower choking up all the ped movement – No, doubt given half a chance you might find some trader in their blocking most of the width of the atrium and yelling ‘flowers for sale’.

    • #739937
      Anonymous
      Participant

      I agree entirely with your interpretation of markets in Dublin. Except to say that you have forgotten to mention the 1980’s incarnation of the private market that sells a different less aromatic product range (blackberry fair and blackrock and the harbour market before that)

      The parisians established the peripheral Runges distribution market decades ago and freed up an entire quarter for gentrification.

      I am not too sure how London deals with its mass distribution of fruit and veg but it clearly isn’t moved through covent garden.

      I am not convinced that markets don’t have a role entirely, but I am convinced that small scale niche markets on private property or that supplied by DCC is required.

      I think the Georges St arcade is a model we can all aspire to. Have you been in the market bar on fade st?

    • #739938
      garethace
      Participant

      How about a contra-flow bicycle lane in Nassau Street? And getting those few car parking spaces all along Nassau st, into the Setanta centre or someplace underground even. Or would that be too much like doing something right in Dublin city centre. They are always selling flowers on Fade St, too and that is just beside the George’s arcade where they could and should be accomodate – allowing Fade st, to become usable and a better st.

      I was cycling along Portobello last sunday evening and was asked by a Guard not to cycle up there – having done so like everyone else for years and years. This is the kind of ‘patrolling’ and flow control we have now aspired to under the Bertie administration. I just think, this notion of pedestrian movment and getting out of the ‘studio ivory tower’ in architectural college needs to be considered. I mean, getting the feeling of walking around something one might design as a young arch student. The final Chapter is Ching, isn’t bad on this actually.

      Someone should do a Cartoon of a Rubgy player like Jono Lomo negotiating a LUAS tram, a Dublin Bus and a motorcar only to trip over a flower pot! 🙂 And have some flower seller saying, are you going to pay for that! [angry]

    • #739939
      Anonymous
      Participant

      You don’t need a contra flow up Nassau St it only has to go down Sth Leinster st to Kildare st as a right turn is permitted down molesworth St coming back out at Davy/Hibernian way on Dawson St giving access back to Nassau St but also back towards the Westbury and Grafton st as well. Therbye breaking up the oneway system and allowing preferential treatment for those who provide their own congestion freindly transport.

      I think the solution to Fade St has to be urban renewal incentives targetted at focused uses. Take the new market bar that was the storeroom of a nearbye chinese supermarket on Drury st for years.;)

    • #739940
      garethace
      Participant

      Originally posted by Diaspora
      You don’t need a contra flow up Nassau St it only has to go down Sth Leinster st to Kildare st as a right turn is permitted down molesworth St coming back out at Davy/Hibernian way on Dawson St giving access back to Nassau St but also back towards the Westbury and Grafton st as well. Therbye breaking up the oneway system and allowing preferential treatment for those who provide their own congestion freindly transport.

      I can see how that would be infinitely easier to achieve, avoid the problems of bicycles running it ‘right turning cars’ going up Kildare St, and still as a solution, like you have proposed would still manage at least 50% of the improvement, that a total bicycle lane, the full length as I have suggested would achieve.

      Don’t get me wrong though, the footpath for pedestrians directly in front of Reads and Easons, formerly Fred Hannas, is a mess from a pedestrian point of view – it is a choke point, and thereby has means that over the years, pedestrians have began to avoid it – it would even help enormously if Dublin City corp shelled out for some kind of ‘wall mounted’ parking metres, so as not to ‘wind’ oneself hopping off of parking metres, in a desperate attempt to ‘make some headway’ through the crowd – That one single pedestrian ‘black spot’ is solely responsible for the deterioration all along Nassau St – that toward Nassau St, Leinster St, etc, the Setanta Centre, all along towards Merrion Square has become rather disused and dodgy at nightime. People don’t know it, it is lost to the city. Despite having gone to all the trouble and expense of building a very fine new Art Gallery extension at the end of that route.

      If the said pedestrian choke-point in front of Fred Hannas was fixed, somehow, that would greatly enhance possibilities for all Nassau St to become more than it is. All it would actually take in reality, is for a couple of rich dudes to have to walk a few hundred yards more to their own personal parking space in the underground Setanta centre or something. I mean, the situation is in Dublin, you need to get around on foot – so apart from providing multi storey car parking – it would also help conjestion considerably in Dublin city centre, if the people could walk around, do their business and generally not have to waste as much time as they do, getting stopped at pedestrian choke-points around the city centre. I would love to fly up in a helicopter some day, and watch all the sad, poor, fools having to que at certain points to walk around.

      It goes right back to my old point, that we here in Ireland love sending out state paid ‘troppers’ in big, bright badged mechanised transport – Gardai uniforms in this case – to ‘solve’ the traffic problem. Over last xmas, I know from a lot of cases, that two and even three young inexperienced gardai were necessary to ‘make some traffic conjestion problems worse’ when only one could have managed to mess it up by themself. But perhaps if we invested less money in bright, shiny motorcycles and suits for cops, and tried to put a bit of money into relieving pedestrian choke points, things would ‘flow better’.

      I mean, the street traders in Dubin city, who sell their bloody flowers to 5% of the total pedestrian street population, who are probably grannies moving at 0 miles per hour anyhow, have been allowed to create artificial pedestrian choke points all by themselves. If it was any other product other than flowers they were selling, they would be brought properly into line. Effectively they manage to ‘barricade’ South Annes St, and the other St, going up past McDaide’s pub – effectively creating a shop premises, free of rent where there should be a pedestrian street. But we here in Dublin have been incredibly naive about these things – pedestrianisation doesn’t equal sentimental, picturesqe, conjested clutter – it means, taking some of the benefits of pedestrianisation – the ability for large popultations of people to march around the place in quick time like armies.

      Some day, I will start a riot with the Street traders in Grafton Street by doing a ‘Johnny Wilkinson special’ to one of those buckets of god-damn flowers, and driving it down as far as college green. In general I can see, you have taught about this subject in detail, and while I do have a lot of respect for someone who has done so – I feel compelled to point out some of the more obvious example of ‘pedestrian circulation’ naievity that are staring people blankly in the face as you ‘try to navigate your way on two tired old pins’ around our nation’s capital. I mean also, from the point of view, of running the nation’s capital – keeping the economy afloat, contributing to peoples’ reduction in stress levels, health probs etc, etc. A good example of changing the way, people use a space, in a positive fashion, is of course the Liffey Board walks. It is just a pity, they didn’t shell out and do the same on the other side too.

    • #739941
      FIN
      Participant

      did u get attacked by a flower when u were younger? but i totally agree with you. i don’t often get to dublin but i must say when i do those f**king things annoy the crap outa me. i see no need for street traders at all. let them get a property or another business. why do they get to set up for free? molly malone my f**king arse.
      i mean u have lots more office/retail space there than is being used so feck them in there.instead of getting in people’s way when walking.

    • #739942
      garethace
      Participant

      Careful, before we spoil what is really a strong argument, before it is even allowed to get ‘aired’ properly. Dispora was making some good points, in the flower sellers favour, which I liked a lot too – obviously based on knowledge and experience of high rent strategies of developers for shop space in Dubin city.

      So let’s just turn this into a bit of fun shall we?

      To be perfectly honest with you all, I couldn’t give a toss about flower sellers, or what pedestrian problems there are in Dublin city – as know one currently pays me money to worry about such matters. But that doesn’t discount the easy opportunity it presents to sharpen some of my instincts as an Architect, using Dublin city as my real test bed. That is where Dispora and me probably differ a great deal – he/she obviously has some vested interest, or more than passing interest in these things – a career of worrying about the environment – it isn’t my career yet.

      A daft, left-of-brain idea that I have been working on goes something like this. (Think Parc De La Vilette) If DIT system of education here in Dublin were encouraged to be a lot more like the flower sellers – to pursue their customers, with their product – to put their ‘buckets of education’ out in the street as it were. Then if you take all the premises that DIT have around Dublin city, all the land that the state owns etc, etc, and take a product like fresh flowers – if the state was to provide some level of support to those flower sellers to sell their product.

      DIT is scattered around the city in a million different ‘little buildings’ and you really don’t know what is what anymore. The flower sellers are blocking up our streets, and need a fixed low rent premises. Why not exchange roles a bit? I mean of course, is some kind of park de la Vilette Bernard Tschumi way, where you overlay a map of DIT premises of higer education and then the low-rent, sort of ‘permit-holding’ street traders around Dublin city – whose beautfiul product, flowers bring as much joy into peoples’ lives as education does. We might be able to strike a better balance between the two needs.

    • #739943
      FIN
      Participant

      good thought…why not suggest it to the powers that be!

    • #739944
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Because as already mentioned a few pages back, the powers over the powers that be would realise just how much duplication of function existed.

      Half the photocopy kings and tea barons would be dead headed. OK it would deliver better education at a more efficient cost but that isn’t the issue for the mandarin classes.

      One site would far to much visibility, it would be like asking the viet-cong to fight in a field, losing their terrain and camoflauge 😎

    • #739945
      garethace
      Participant

      well I just heard Sean O’Laoire talking about a map of ‘nigerian dublin’ in a recent lecture he gave. So maybe a map of DIT dublin, and flower-seller dublin is needed too. 🙂

    • #739946
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Wow thats almost like DIT multiple duplicity of the same function!!!!! 🙂

      Bolton St

    • #739947
      Anonymous
      Participant

      Wow thats almost like DIT multiple duplicity of the same function!!!!!

      Mountjoy Sq

    • #739948
      garethace
      Participant

      To be honest with you guys, whenever i was asked to do these ‘left-brain’ projects in college I shyed away terribly. But I find, that when I base my arguments, ideas and assumptions on real sort of architectural foundation principles – people circulation, light as an element of architecture, degrees of spatial enclosure, open public spaces and so forth – that sometimes some useful observations can be brought forward into the basic framework stage for a good ‘left-brain’ kind of project idea.

      What I cannot understand personally is why someone would want to do ‘left-brain’ projects without basing the exercise upon the opportunity to really sharpen one’s own perception of very basic architectural problem solving skills and guiding principles. The last thing I want to do here is to insult any party, but using my knowledge of DIT as an organisation over the years, is just a way of learning, more about cities. A map of architects practices in dublin, would also reveal just as interesting a result, or observations. You could distinguish how one Architects wants the big Georgian building on Baggot St, while another wants a small discreet office development off Mount Pleasant Ave, in Rathmines. Similarly with solicitors, accountants etc, etc. Cities aren’t made up of buildings and streets – but of people and circulation systems – that is what I have learned from my many years of education in DIT college.

      Now, what really bugs me, is people who use new 3DS VIZ technology, without using some guiding principles and vocabulary similar to that of architects. I don’t want to design a building on a computer using terms like ‘Polyline, extrusion, UVW map modifier, parametric cube object’. Because it is not architectural vocabulary, and cannot ultimately lead to any architecturally defined solution. But there again, DIT with all the investment it has put in, still probably haven’t some invested in anything other than a typical AutoCAD/VIZ geek teaching computers to architects, with no clearly defined ajenda on how to pull it back into design studio.

    • #739949
      FIN
      Participant

      well said. architecture is about the experience of a building and in the wider context the city. a successful building is one that integrates the person and the city into one. someone just versed in cad/viz won’t be able to properly marry the two as all they know is flashy elevations and trying to get the most amount of space into the smallest of sites. a shame as this could be an historic shift in the profession away from the end users of our creations.

    • #739950
      garethace
      Participant

      Pro-active learning. . . is something the planning profession has embraced … but given some luck, may some day trickle down into architectural education. A lot of this pro-active learning can be done on foot too – see Dubin city Council walking tours information on their web site for instance.

      But an ideal exercise, which I can highly recommend to explore cities in a thorough organised fashion, is to split it up into areas, and locate all retail areas, the professionals, the entertainment etc, etc. Because generally speaking when you get a large mixed use master plan to do anyhow, you are going to be facing that problem. Not just drawing polylines in AutoCAD and extruding them to do a ‘scanline rendering’ in VIZ. (Insert AutoDesk jiggle)

      There is just so much, real world, field-work that architects can do to teach themselves. The recent RIAI publication of housing in Dublin city isn’t a bad one either – because you can find most of those schemes in Dublin, in reality. The Milltown/Dartry Road in Dublin is very interesting I think, since it contains a LUAS intersection and many, many religious type properties becoming high-density residential etc.

      Space is a quite fascinating study, but you have to ‘get out there’. It doesn’t come to you inside a studio, holed up in some nice ‘architectural college course’ somewhere. Online places like Archiseek exist, which provide the best point of contact between various people thinking about these matters and comparing observations.

    • #739951
      FIN
      Participant

      i agree. i am the sort that for a proper design i need to interact with the area. (now i do design without even seeing the site but i don’t think it works) and that means getting out there. unfortunately this doesn’t seem to be standard practice. people are too busy nowadays and our climate isn’t best suited for extended stays out doors but i still think it’s necessary. when i was in college i used to spend hours just hanging around the site. i’m sure i looked strange but sure i believe it worked as i saw who people reacted to different things. that is why i also believe that sociology is intrinsically liked with architecture.

    • #739952
      garethace
      Participant

      All I will say, is that the RIAI Housing book was divided up into Inner City, Inner Suburban and Outer Suburban territories. It also included lastly a section about small towns outside of Dublin. But basically, it tried to suggest good ways to develop for each of those environments. I can ensure you, those different territories aren’t imaginary either. whether it is Inner or outer suburban type of development. I mean if you look at the kinds of 3DS VIZ images that make their way onto places like http://www.cgarchitect.com you tend to imagine places like Consilla, or Foxs and Geese, or some really suburban place, with lots and lots of space around the building. Because in America where most 3DS VIZ images are done, you have large suburban types of car-oriented cities.

      A lot of inner suburban dublin and inner city Dublin is much more packed than most American cities are. It is nice to just be able to look at a design, and instantly know what it is, based on actually experience of what suburban environments are like, what inner city environments are like. It does make a huge difference – they face different challenges. It is nice to have this thought at the back of your mind, when designing anything. I.e. That you don’t try to design something, which would be suitable in Grafton Street, out in Walkinstown or somewhere. So, I would suggest that RIAI book on housing is a book you should study carefully. Each chapter has an ‘experts opinion’ bit, by someone who is experienced in designing in each of those different environments.

    • #739953
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Fin that is an interesting way of looking at things, would you ever consider hiring someone to do that sort of thing for you? What I mean is would you ever get a sociologist or another social scientist to look at a site for you and to give their views?

    • #739954
      FIN
      Participant

      firstly, gareththe ace…i might scrummage around for that book, i am sure we have it here somewhere. thanks. and the building has to suit the setting. basic learning for architecture, i believe anyway.

      and phil. as i am interested in it, but by no means an expert, and consider it necessary for architect’s it should be given it’s due in college. to answer ur question i would consider it strongly for large scale developments where my simplistict approach just wouldn’t do but smaller ones then it would have to be up to the architect as i presume the client might think u crazy if you wanted to bring in a sociologist as a consultant. to hire one in a office! can’t say that i would really. consultant yes, paid staff member no. unless i was doing large urban scale dev.’s or competitions all the time then it might pay alright.

    • #739955
      garethace
      Participant

      and phil. as i am interested in it, but by no means an expert, and consider it necessary for architect’s it should be given it’s due in college. to answer ur question i would consider it strongly for large scale developments where my simplistict approach just wouldn’t do but smaller ones then it would have to be up to the architect as i presume the client might think u crazy if you wanted to bring in a sociologist as a consultant.

      Well I think that is why E-Learning should be a part of architectural education nowadays. There should be appointed staff in DIT and places to accomodate that – after all, after a one year’s worth of interaction at Archiseek on various matters to do with the built environment, one could scarsely hope to ‘dis-improve’ as a potential young design skilled person. Anyhow, just to let you all in on a little bit of info – I was a fly on the wall, at a recent DIT forum about IT and education, held at Angier Street during June 2003. I overheard the ‘big-wigs’ talking about the concept of e-learning for DIT. I never heard such a bunch of old nannies talking in my life.

      Basically, nearly all the people present seemed to dismiss e-learning as something that could ultimately become ‘invaded’ by (insert Miss Crabs voice) people who would disrupt the online community etc, etc. Body snatchers, etc, etc. I learned a great deal about online interactive learning from the IT community who are constantly in a daily fight with their job every day, to stay abreast of late-breaking technology news and events, which affect their own job too. They really seem to have embraced it and employed it for their own means and ends. Perhaps our universities should take a leaf out of their book.

    • #739956
      FIN
      Participant

      the big-wigs are just scared of a new form of learning. it’s pathetic really. they should be embracing it with open arms.they should be listening to the people on the ground. as usual too many chiefs, and not enough indians.

    • #739957
      garethace
      Participant

      The big-wigs have enough problems grappling with the bigger problems of inefficient, top-heavy institutions of education, costing way too much, and squeezing down too much what the student gets as an end-product.

      Than to worry about fancy new ideas like e-learning. Solve the bigger stuff first, like the plethora of buildings DIT has to manage and run around Dublin, and then some of the other things will ‘happen’ as more funds and people/talent, man-hours and energy in Kilo Joules, of their existing workforce come on stream and available to actually do something.

      I think DIT work very hard, to keep their system running at maximum efficiency – it is just the underlying structure which is so terrible to squeeze anything more out of – time to throw it out and upgrade the structure.

      I could understand the structure of DIT, if it were say, a huge multi-national organisation like DELL with distribution and manufacturing branches world wide and billions of dollars in revenue to spend annually. But we are talking about a small educational institution, having to cope with a small number of students in the one small part of the one city!

      And yet, it seems to need and consumer with gusto, the financing, facilities, structuring and regulations of a huge multinational organisation! Without even presenting the end user with a decent product that works? Please refer to American automotive industry versus the Japanesse one.

    • #739958
      FIN
      Participant

      sounds like experience so i will believe you as i have no idea of the structure. would e-learning cut the need for so many buildings?

    • #739959
      garethace
      Participant

      e-learning could be just as crap as any other form of learning, believe me. What would probably happen if DIT went into e-learning is that some €20,000 a year poor chap on a 1-year contract might be asked to ‘put something together’ with some other young chap a mile down the road in another building, with no real communication, and who could care less. Eventually it would probably all break out in some corridor scuffle and that would be the end of that, while the dust settled for the next 10 years.

      I mean, you don’t want to ‘take on’ the might of the DIT politburo – it has been more efficient than KGB at its height, in putting many a good agent into an early grave. 🙂

    • #739960
      FIN
      Participant

      sounds kgb-ish alright 😀

    • #739961
      garethace
      Participant

      LIke I say, fine individuals have managed to keep the whole thing running longer than it perhaps should have – the underlying structure – is unsuitable to the educational needs of any modern first world country. But in times before economic boom, noone spent a great deal of time questioning things – it was mostly about survival – like Dispora said about housing developments on motorways.

    • #739962
      garethace
      Participant

      Nice inner suburban housing scheme here, designed in Aus somewhere.

      http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=next_topic;f=4;t=000461;go=older

      But this is more typical of the development in United States, where land values obviously must not be that high.

      http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=next_topic;f=4;t=000432;go=newer

      Now here is one that I picked out, which isn’t inner city, inner suburban, but may be outer suburban, but is more lightly to be in Galway. Apart from the design, which is daft – I think the sizing and simple statement of the volume is appealing. But most of all, to notice the idea of siting any building at all, on this site, is interesting and pleasant in some ‘folly’ sort of way.

      http://www.cgarchitect.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=next_topic;f=5;t=000456;go=newer

      Just click the link and image will pop up. Steven Holl is one of the few guys who could pull off a site strategy like this effectively today I think.

    • #739963
      FIN
      Participant

      i like the two..1 in aus and the other in us… the third..i agree with u..it’s daft but from only a render i will say that it may work…some derivation of the design and it could be workable. depends on the site. if it was sloped then u may get away with it…

    • #739964
      garethace
      Participant

      Have a lot at some of the little houses designed by Meier in the 1970s and 1980s – he could manage to build in such as setting. But it takes confidence and design ability to do so.

      Little Britain

      30 minutes from London city centre – but like a different world – an area that just ‘happened’ around some old disused gravel pits. Land which ‘might’ some day become valuable for development – but at the moment, is just the space between factories, shopping centres and transport infrastructure.

      Did anyone see the piece about ‘Little Britain’ and edgedom’s in the BBC last night? The opposite to the ‘planned environments’ in Britain like Milton Keynes.

      I mean, here in Britain and Ireland we don’t have any policy to edgedoms, other than to ‘control them’ just because we like to control things. In Finland especially, i did notice a slightly different attitude to these marginal zones, where it is neither country nor city.

      the point was made too – that building types and fauna can exist in ‘edgedom’ which couldn’t exist in typical rural farming subsidised environments – where the cows are ‘paid’ to chew everything to death.

      Whereas, to take the urban slant, these places mostly get fenced off, or simply become pitch and putt courses – i.e. brought into the city in some kind of acceptable way.

      I guess, that was the approach taken when Bolton Street done some Dublin Docklands projects a few years ago now. Pity no publication or online resource was ever made available from that – i.e. like Fluid Space thing in UCD.

      BTW too, on ‘Fifth Gear’ there was a segment about road rage – the antidote to road rage seemed to be walking around a pedestrian area of town – and asking road rage sufferers, why they do not get as angry when a pedestrian cuts them off etc.

      Apparently the psychologist said, that the car in modern society is the number one murder weapon and that has indeed affected how we behave.

      I really don’t know about using Dublin city pedestrian walking to relieve rage though. 🙂

    • #739965
      FIN
      Participant

      i am a definate canditate for road rage..i even get path rage…when ever someone is slow or cuts in front of me walking i mutter something very polite at them!

    • #739966
      garethace
      Participant

      Odd good rendering here Fin,

      http://www.g3d.net/

      Notice just how much involved with nature, houses seem to get in different climates to the oceanic temperate one we live in.

      http://members.ozemail.com.au/~wokka/FrameSet%20Arch.htm

    • #739967
      FIN
      Participant

      that’s very true. being the fact that u don’t get pissed on every time you go outside the door there it’s much easier to have lots of pretty plants near instead of the dull evergreens we get plagueing houses here.
      nice rendering alright.

    • #739968
      garethace
      Participant

      typical one of wilderness development, driven by having cars, and lots of home entertainment, web access etc, in the USA.

      If I get any more extreme rural developments, I will post them. I think some of these may work as retreat type places, like the ancient Cistercian monastery etc, but as new residential developments…. ?

      Outer Suburbia?

      same?

      Open space as part of scheme.

      Some things like this, have integrated well into places like Rathgar Road etc,I think.

      Perhaps not pretty in some peoples’ eyes, but definitely sustainable as development I think, on smaller available plots.

      another one;

      I dunno, how to calculate densities on FARs for this but, I think you get the idea.

      And another attempt at density.

      High density, low cost.

      I think that Wright was very good at doing this sort of thing here.

      Perhaps suitable for a number of smaller apartments nowadays on suitable site, circa Rathmines or similar? Certainly would be contextual anyhow.

      Another kind of place,

      sunnier,

      Or here.

      Or this.

      Cross of ancient and modern at high densities. Kahn who first started trend in this.

      Goind even further denser in FAR;

      Similar idea.

      We certainly haven’t built like this in Ireland since the times of the Eucharistic congress!

      This type of development, is attractive, as it actually manages to create a strong definition of a street I think.

      Pastiche probably,but still good amount of accomodation packed in.

      As this one does;

      The sort of thing which drove Temle Bar development style.

      Which, I believe was new at the time here in Ireland.

      Docklands? Notice how elements like that bridge in the background, are important perceptual landmarks in such a place.

      Handsome looking attempt at very high density.

      Another one.

    • #739969
      garethace
      Participant

      A good example of where geographers and architects might combine?

      http://www.cgarchitect.com/gallery/image_spotlight.asp?galleryID=12673

      Normally this kind of density is reserved for bad hotel developments here in Ireland. Which american firms of architects designed and had fine tuned down to the very last quarter of an inch. A quarter of an inch over size = less profit in other words.

      But why do cities like paris, berlin, barcelona, amsterdam, london, helsinki etc manage these densities and we never can?

    • #739970
      garethace
      Participant

      Top Ten Planning Issues of 2003 as per Planetizen online magazine.

      California biased perhaps, where the magazine is located.

      http://www.planetizen.com/oped/item.php?id=117

    • #739971
      FIN
      Participant

      interesting but from what i read they just described the problem and didn’t give any sort of answers to it. maybe i missed it and will read more when i have time

    • #739972
      garethace
      Participant

      This is kinda new urbanism I think,

      Very ‘thoroughly’ have shown all the roads and servicing for this project, mapped out in advance, or comissioning your architect to do some nice one-off house on a decent plot for you.

      The way the golf course is weaved in between the planned development.

      http://www.architectural-models.com/galrose.html

    • #739973
      garethace
      Participant

      I think these shots are priceless, like a scene from the God Father, not a sign of a Rem Koolhaas anywhere, you couldn’t miss that nose eh?

      http://www.architectural-models.com/galfed.html

    • #739974
      garethace
      Participant

      Thread spotted, might interest you’z:

      http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11230

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