New Liffey pedestrian bridge

Does it open? Or are they fencing off those deep water berths?

This has to have been one of the least publicised architectural competitions in years. I run an archcomp mailinglist with 24,000 subscribers on it, and I didn’t hear about it until after closing date. I wonder how many entrys the DDDA had.

Another bridge for the Liffey

DUBLIN is to get another bridge across the River Liffey.

The three-metre wide pedestrian bridge structure, will link the northside International Financial Services Centre with Government offices on the southside.

The cantilevered bridge, due to be completed in early 2004, will span the river east of the Matt Talbot bridge, from Custom House Quay to City Quay.

The winning design was unveiled yesterday by the Dublin Docklands Development Authority.

Its hard to tell what way it opens from that image.

I don’t think its that similar to London at all.

http://www.hughpearman.com/articles3/millenium2.html

To answer your question Paul – from the press release

“The competition attracted over 80 entries from all over the world. The jury also commended the entry by Ahrends Burton and Koralek, Architects and Kellogg Brown Root, Engineers.

An exhibition of the entries to the competition will be held in the Atrium of the National College of Ireland, Mayor Square, IFSC II, Dublin 1 from Tuesday 10th December until Thursday 19th December from 9am to 5pm. “

If the bridge reminds me of any bridge its the Firth of forth Railway bridge (in terms of the principle behind it).
The new bridge seems to be a balanced cantilever solution with 2 sections each pivoting a quarter (river width) in from each quay.

this link will explain the principle
http://www.pre-engineering.com/resources/forth/forthbridge.htm

I would need to see a bit more detail but I think it is not bad. A reworking of a tried & tested system unlike the reworking of the suspension bridge principle in the Millenium bridge in London.

Well as a connection it will be pretty usefull I think, more so than then millenuim bridge. Can’t really tell from the image how it will look.
But I recall seeing before a mooted design for a pedestrian bridge at this point that incorporated a wier like thing that would have kept the water at a minimum height in the liffey and also incorpprated a lock to allow boats to ascend. Could be a better idea, me thinks.

Well thank god we’re building a pedestrianised bridge, for the sake of building one, rather than some contrived nonsense like the millenium

what are the odds it will wobble?

Unlikely,
More straightforward design than in Foster’s bridge

I know the structural concept of a cantilever bridge such as this is much different from the suspension bridge that is the Millennium Bridge, but i still can’t help but see the similarity between the two… i.e. steel ties supported by shallow inclined v-shaped piers…

But maybe its just the picture… and i suppose it is premature to judge it on this one picture alone… still from initial impressions i can’t say i like it even if i don’t know why…

Would also like to see a view of it with Calatrava’s proposed bridge in the background…

Originally posted by JackHack
But I recall seeing before a mooted design for a pedestrian bridge at this point that incorporated a wier like thing that would have kept the water at a minimum height in the liffey and also incorpprated a lock to allow boats to ascend. Could be a better idea, me thinks.

A weir is needed but I think the handiest solution would be just to put one in under the Matt Talbot bridge.

The proposal referred to previously was by Jim Horan as far as I remember.

The only problem Paul, with a weir under the matt Talbot, would be no access to smaller boats west of that bridge. Dublin Port boats sometime venture up that far.
Horan’s proposal incorporated a lock which wouldn’t work under the low Matt Talbot bridge.

I believe that some of the bearings on the Matt Talbot bridge are so low they are submerged during high tides-hardly ideal

Some information on that previous proposal here:
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&postid=1857#post1857

It looks great

I see the proposed water bus got a mention in todays indo.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=886134&issue_id=8473

As far as I remember, the water bus and water taxis are to go as far as the moorings outside the DDDA offices (where the boats are moored just past the bridge in the picture). I guess the weir would have to be further downstream than this.

The only mention I can recall of a weir in any documents produced by the DDDA (and I guess they would have to be involved) is for a possible one at East Link.

All these proposals are great are’nt they…….but will they ever come to fruition.
This was’nt as hyped up and publicised as other past developments probably due to the fear of objections.

I remember the water taxi service for the Dublin Millennium (88) having a big picture on on the front page of the Times – idea died on its arse though

How come nobody has got this off the ground yet? There’s something absurd about a city having gridlocked quays and an empty river. Particularly as the centre expands in an east/west direction, this would be a great way of making short (but long on foot!) trips without laying any tracks or digging up anything.
Why did the original idea ‘die on its arse’? Surely a shuttle service from Heuston to The Point would make a tonne of cash.

I suppose the question is how many people a day want to go from Heuston to the Point? A couple of runs when there’s a big gig on I suppose.

The bus from Heuston to IFSC runs only 25 times a day, mostly at rush hour. So I wonder is the demand unmet or is there just no demand(, or no point sitting in a traffic locked bus)?

Heuston to Custom house Quay might be profitable though as this would link to Busarus, Connolly and TaraSt. Could end up in competition to the luas docklands link…

That said, I would love to see the river being used for transport again. Does anyone know when did the last ferry service finish? I remember one running when the point was still new and exciting. What happened to that?

For a river serice beyound Capel Street, a weir would be needed. Having lived at Heuston, the water can drop right down to a foot or so from Grattan bridge onwards. Also nothing larger than a canoe is getting under Matt Talbot at high water.

I’m sure alot of folk would use it particularly country folk who when travelling home have to get the 79 or 90 bus at Aston Quay to travel up to Heuston Station….and many folk coming from the country could get it at Heuston to travel to the city centre.
As for the newly emerging docks with its new population a ferry service would be an appropriate venture.

Some form of a double/adjustable wier could be designed that would keep the minimum height up river at low tide and maitain a maximum height a high tide. This is possible I think.

Also I think the wier is better placed at the location of the Pedestrian bridge where it can be admired rather than placing it where it may take away from the magnificance of the Mat Talbot bridge,

One other wonder, really isn’t a river boat on the liffey about as much use as having guided tours of Hawkins house? It should only happen if it’s commercial.

What about the old Guinness barges – they didn’t seem to have a problem.

the guinness barges had the ability to lower their chimney stacks, and the matt talbot wasn’t there.

whats obviously called for is a submarine with retractable legs (say eight) for walking west of Heuston station.

No, we need to demolish all the remaining bridges and get Calatrava to build massive new cantilevered jobs the whole length of the Liffey to swing out of the way of the water taxis as they bring me to the Point for concerts.

I think a weir would be simpler, surely it wouldn’t cost that much

I weir would be a great idea….and may even have a more practical use as a protection against flooding in view of rising sea levels and the distruction wrought in the last year by high tides. It would also get rid of that nasty low tide look the Liffey has and maybe even contribute to a cleaner river…no more Chime in the Slimes!
As for the baot service, I dont think it would work out to be honest. Look at London…even it struggles to provide a viable commercial service. There just isnt the demand for the service to work. A better option might be to look at providing Sydney-type ferry services from the Docklands to the suburbs around the bay thus releving pressure on the Dart. Not sure how easy our weather would make this.

As for the bridge it looks great but is it a logical place to put it as the Quays on either side arent exactly the most predestrian freindly areas. Once you get past the Campshires then you have to negotiate the heavy good vehicles either side. And both sides seem to be opting for office blocks facing the river rather than more pedestrain orientated shops and bars and restaurants.

There was also a bridge mooted for the Malborough St/Hawkins St axis. Anybody hear anything more about that? Its a part of the O’Connell Integrated Plan. Mind you as we are just about managing to get the Spire constructed (an important but hardly huge element of the plan) I suppose I will have to sit on my hands for a few more years before I see that element in place.

Dublin needs a way of getting people from Heuston to the IFSC’ish area which avoids traffic. The best options are:

Underground rail from Heuston to Connolly (now where would we get that?

Water taxi.

Sky taxi – based on those cool harrier planes that take off vertically!

Sky taxi – based on those cool harrier planes that take off vertically!

Like this one?

Solve dublin’s traffic problems in a stroke!

The foot bridge looks good, and will be especially useful as the Spencer Dock/Grand Canal Dock sites are developed.

James

Two entries from the competition

http://www.irish-architecture.com/unbuilt_ireland/dublin/ddda_pedestrian_bridge/index.html

I like the first one… its sounds very cool. I like the idea of it being an ‘event’ when the bridge is withdrawn

The arches on the first one are ridiculously out of scale with the width of the river it has to span…

Hoola Hoopla…..Is that a dolmen in the first image….hee hee …na it’s the water flowing off the platform as it’s raised….. I think. The second bridge looks kinda like the Millenium Bridge in London.

Nice pics of the James Joyce Bridge at http://www.dublincity.ie/news2.html – the city council’s website.
Unfortunately, they’ve put about eight huge pictures on the one page so unless you have a decent system, i wouldn’t bother trying it.

The piling works for this bridge appear to be at an advance stage does anyone know when it is due for completion?

The pontoons (is that the arch word? – the legs of the bridge) are finished. They look really good, in pristine concrete with the water coming close to breaking over the top of them at high tide. The quay walls where the bridge will meet land looks ready too. Just the bridge sections needed now. Hope they arrive by boat, much more atmospheric than by big truck blocking the quays.

Still no sign of the bridge itself. But I notice (and should have mentioned sooner) that the first batch of Rachel Joynt’s glass cobble stones are in place. They are wonderful. Apparently there is to be nearly 1000 of them. They are beautiful round (~palm size) backlit glass blocks. They have blue and green swirls through them and little fish swimming through, and starfish in others. They look like little rock pools or maybe portholes tht you can see through into the river and sea below.

I had very high expectations as I love some of her other work, especially The Sea Urchin in Dun Laoghaire and The People’s Island an O’connel bridge / Dolier st (esp the little bird feet!) and am delighted that docklands has this addition. Offsets the famine memorial very well and will enhance the new bridge.

Come on the bridge!

I meant to mention these previously. They look great don’t they. I mjst say the DDDA have made great use of inventive lighting in the whole Docklands areas. Would love to see elements like this integrated into other city areas. City Walls, OConnell St, better bridge lighting.

Im looking forward to seeing the bridge in place. The last time I read it was due up the Liffey in Nov. Being constructed in Poland?? Roll on the NY. Shall we see a Boardwalk extension, improved pedestrian flows under an advertisment-free Loop Line, smartened up Quays at Custom House and Georges Quay, and a spanking new bridge opposite chq. Should be a great improvement. Next the DDDA should remove themselves to some other location in their domain and demolish their present offices.

Will we be allowed cycle on this bridge – or will it really be pedestrian only?

@vinnyfitz wrote:

Will we be allowed cycle on this bridge – or will it really be pedestrian only?

As cyclists unilaterally disregard pedestrians, traffic lights, one way streets, I shouldn’t think they’ll pay any attention anyway

@StephenC wrote:

I

Im looking forward to seeing the bridge in place. The last time I read it was due up the Liffey in Nov. Being constructed in Poland?? .

Yeah, apaprently being made in Poland.

I had a chat with a couple of yellow coats beside the site today and they said that the bridge is being floated up in February. Not exactly reliable but from some kind of horse’s mouth nonetheless

so the fish are fabuluous but i was sorry to see that they seem to be removing the big wooden pillars along where the warehouses used to be near spencer docks, they were kind of magnificant and very evokative of the maritime past, espessially when the comorants, or are the shags, perch on them.

personally I’d kill for a crack at re-lighting all the bridges along the liffey

I saw the new sunken lighting recently – it looks great, can’t wait to see it after dark.
As part of the project, 4 micro-LEDs are also being installed at the base of every tree, about half have been done already with the remainder currently being put in. They are exceptionally neat, indeed so much so they look rather strange inset into the frumpy 80s style metal grids surrounding the trees.

The bridge piers look great, being so new and clean. As was mentioned before, this must be the least vaunted infrastructural project in the city; it’s exciting to suddenly see development taking place – no one’s had a chance to whinge about how long it’s taking 🙂
Interesting to note how the city is gradually creeping eastwards, it’s funny how it seems so reluctant to go beyond certain points, first the Custom House, then IFSC Phase 1, then Phase 2, now it draws the line at Spencer Dock, though the southside has been that bit more daring, venturing out to the Grand Canal Basin.

Calatrava’s bridge is really needed now, there’s nowhere for pedestrians to go after the Matt Talbot at present and it’s a heck of a walk round, what ever about vehicular traffic. Even so, you can really appreciate the purpose of the current bridge under construction and the difference it will make. I’ll be great to be able to stand in the middle of one of the widest points of the river.

So what will it be called?

“So what will it be called?”

O’Connor Sutton Cronin (engineers of bridge) refer to it as Stack A Bridge.

[Stack A would also be a very good name for Stack A ! ]

Big metal bits being unloaded there this morning. Seems like the rounded metal pivots that sit on top of each of the concrete piers and hold the whole thing together. (makes sense if you look at the picture in the first post)

I’ll try and bring a camera tomorrow.

According to the latest DDDA newsletter its to be called the “Sean O’Casey” bridge. Apparently, they held a competition to find the name.

persumably they could take just hang around when the tide was wrong; the problem with a river bus is that it needs to be reliable and regular.

Is there also to be a pedestrian bridge between Eden and Burgh Quay? ie, halfway between O’Connell Bridge and Butt Bridge?

Thanks

Phil

Some pictures of the bridge on pieces ready to be assembled.

I think first sections will be in place later today

i was suprised to see it was flat packed, i assume that it turned up with only 48 of the required 51 T-15c screws and when they start trying to build someone will step on the monsterous sachet of woodglue and tread it into the carpet.

Oh oh – they should have kept the T-15c screws! they’ve made a mess of it. That’s a crap bridge.

Or maybe it’s meant to be like that. It looks like really heavy duty barriers to stop ships crashing into the new concrete piers. What is going on there????

I would say that is for that section of the bridge to pivot on maybe? Is there a similar feature on the other side?

No _ think the bridge should be sitting only on the 2 pillars.
like in the artists impression which is on the site boundary

Mmmm, interesting point. I wonder what they are for then. I suppose we will just have to wait to see. However the existing supports are far more slender and a different shape to the ones shown in the artists impression.

In the artist’s impression, you can see the joint in the middle, which is where the bridge pivot opens.
Is it possible, the black structure is a temporary thing to hold the bridge in position, while it’s fixed to the supports.

Extract from an article in Irish Times in August ’03:

“The bridge, which will be located some 300 metres downriver from the Matt Talbot Bridge, will be suspension in design and capable of swivelling around two “cradles” to create a 46-metre opening for ships travelling upriver. It will span the Liffey from the Mariners’ memorial at City Quay to Stack A, a 19th-century warehouse on the Custom House Docks site, which is to be developed as a retail and trade exhibition centre.”

Here’s another picture which better shows the length of the structure:

Wow, it is alot bigger than I thought it was. As Kefu says, it is probably temporary. Thanks for photos Lotts. ps, there seems to be bouys marking out a similar shape on the other side!

Either that, or the widest pedestrian bridge in the world.

“temporary”? Are these not navigation channel barriers?

Maybe they are permananent. If so they are really going to make the bridge look strange. It will look nothing like the photomontage that Lotts posted earlier.

Definitely navigation barriers – something similar down at east link as well – you gotta have em!

Do you think the design of the bridge has therefore been altered with these in mind?

If that’s what they are, they’re very unsightly. I’d say the architects were raging when they were told they’d be a prerequisite. I can’t even imagine what the finished product is going to look like now.

Yikes! Is a second set due to go up against the other pier, or just the one as pictured?

What exactly are they for, if that’s not too obvious a question?

stop boats bumping off the piers… the bollards of the waterway

Yes, but why aren’t they used with all bridges?
Is it just those that cater for larger vessels?

i think so – a kayak isnt going to do much damage to o’connell bridge

At this location I find the existence of them farcical as there is only 300m of navigatable river to Matt Talbot Bridge and there are no loading facilities beyond Windmill Lane.

They have the potential to destroy what is an outstanding bridge design, I’d say its designers are fuming

I have never seen these before – how come London’s (very similar) Millenium Bridge doesn’t need them – or any of its bridges for that matter?

I got in touch with the DDDA yesterday and had this reply:

Dear Morlan, Thank you for your Email. The black barriers will be staying when the bridge is finished as they are the fenders to stop large craft from hitting the bridge when it is open. However they will not stick out of the water so far, as when the tide is higher than mean tide, they will float. At the moment they are pinned up.
Regards

a wider river graham perhaps, you’d have to be drunk to steer a boat into a london bridge….

@Lotts wrote:

No _ think the bridge should be sitting only on the 2 pillars.
like in the artists impression which is on the site boundary

It’s a cushion for the bridge to sit on while they lower it and fix it into position

Thanks for the info Morlan.

Must say you did well to get an email out of the DDDA!

Well if I didn’t get a response from them I would have just asked one of the onsite contractors.. I pass through there quite frequently.

According to a ‘press alert’ on the DDDA site today, the bridge is due to be floated down the Liffey tomorrow.

DDDA Press Alert

New Pedestrian Bridge Arrives in Docklands
News Alert/Photocall Notice

The new pedestrian bridge on the River Liffey arrives in Dublin’s Docklands this Saturday, 30th April 2005. A spectacular sight, the main structure of the bridge will be shipped on a huge pontoon (a Mersey Mammoth) coming through the East Link Bridge and on up to its location east of the Talbot Memorial Bridge. The structure, built in Poland, will be craned into position on the same day.

With another 5 to 6 weeks construction work, the bridge is due to be officially opened in mid to late June.

The new bridge will span almost 100 metres between the north and south quays. It is based on the ‘bascule’ principle, from the French word for see-saw, and has two leaves or arms that can be raised to allow boats pass up and down the river. Each ‘leaf’ of the bridge is approximately 44 metres long and 4.5 metres wide and weighs around 160 tonnes. The total weight of the bridge is over 320 tonnes. Each bridge leaf is a balanced cantilever and is designed to rotate on a central bearing set of piers on the River Liffey. The piers are sitting on four piles driven over 12 metres into the bedrock.

Brian O’Halloran & Associates and O’Connor Sutton Cronin are the architects and engineers for the bridge, respectively.

The construction of the bridge was a truly international affair. The main contractor for the project was John Mowlem Construction Limited and they, in turn, sub-contracted the fabrication of the opening sections to Qualter Hall & Company Limited of Barnsley, who brought together a team of Polish shipwrights to fabricate these sections. Qualter Hall in turn procured the balustrade from Canal Engineering, the balustrade panels from Euroslot France, and the deck from Promecon of Denmark. There have been over 100 people involved with the project. During the construction phase in Poland, a team of 12 certified welders worked continually on the project

The Docklands is undergoing a period of massive regeneration with widespread and intensive redevelopment along the quays.

Visit http://www.dublindocklands.ie for more information.

For further information, please contact: Loretta Lambkin, Docklands Authority, 01 818 3300, llambkin@dublindocklands.ie or Andrew McLindon, WHPR, 01 669 0030/087 288 9601 andrew.mclindon@ogilvy.com

being lifted now: a bull of a scouser crane on a barge with half the bridge dangling of it!

The bridge is now in situ. Looks impressive, one half is pivoted sideways and the other is lined up with the quay wall. Those boat lane markers we were talking about earlier sink right down and when the bridge is fully closed, they won’t be that visible at all.
The lighting scheme is going to be important and the bridge should come into its own when its dark.
Also, it doesn’t make much of an impact from a distance if you’re driving. It’s hard to see from the North Quays because the DDDA shed is there. The Matt Talbot bridge obscures it on the Custom House Quay approach. You can’t really see it from the East Link bridge either.

can you work out how it closes, are the two halves shy of each other with a small lifting bit to be added in the middle?

I suppose the most logical way would be to have the end of the sections cut as below and swinging naturally together:
_ ___ ___
/ /__/ /__/ /

I think that would work. Didn’t look close enough to see what they had actually done.
Would seem a bit long-winded to have to reattach a number of sections every time you opened the bridge.
Although, the necessity for opening it is so infrequent that this may well be the case.

sure, that’s what i expected too, but looking at it, and i could be wrong, the ends look like they have right angles. it was closed this evening, but i was on a bus so i couldn’t see.

It’s very impressive. Much cleaner and better defined lines than shown in the CAD image. A lot less fussy than I had pictured it anyway. But that might be a fault in my brain.
The view looks particularly well from close to head on ie from the side of the DDDA offices rather than seen side on from Matt Talbot. So this should impress the users of the bridge more than those driving around it.

I’ll try and get some pictures the next time I’m there.

Looking at the bridge I thought it’s nice to see a great writer remembered in a way that dosn’t involve putting a statue of him on a bench.
Will there be a plaque, a stone – or maybe something special?

Does anybody have any up to date pictures of the new bridge, or perhaps know where they are online? Thanks!

Heres one I took at the weekend. Note the floating ship “fenders” which were installed at the insistance of teh port authorities I understand.
JJ

The new bridge looks well ………pity about the backdrop/background

Have to say, I don’t agree. Don’t like those gun metal ‘crowns’. Find them a bit over bearing. Also, as it sits, the bridges two pieces don’t meet correctly. The northside section is about six inches lower. You can just make it out if you follow the hand rail in the last picture. There must be some way to jack up the north half (I hope).

Have to say it’s quite industrial-looking, particularly the colour. Compares poorly with the James Joyce bridge.

@AndrewP wrote:

Have to say it’s quite industrial-looking, particularly the colour. Compares poorly with the James Joyce bridge.

Yes, quite industrial and drab in that pic 🙁 I’ll have to wait to see it myself though

Not at all keen on that…. the colour is particularly poorl;y chosen – a grey bridge in a city that predominately grey weatherwise

Also, the black barriers are only submerged at high tide. When I went to have look, they were jutting up high above the water. Very ugly and surely unneccessary

Here’s a couple more shots. The difference in levels can be adjusted by turnbuckles on the cables. The fenders are required I imagine to prevent ships hitting the superstructure as it projects far beyond the base even when the sections are fully open. I would agree that the colour choice is very poor.
JJ

@AndrewP wrote:

Also, the black barriers are only submerged at high tide. When I went to have look, they were jutting up high above the water. Very ugly and surely unneccessary

Alas they are necessary these days no matter if they do ruin the aesthetic

Attached is apic of the gateshead bridge where you can see simiar bariers

Nope; I don’t like that bridge at all from the photographs. The actual span itself looks ok; at least it’s simple with a nice gentle curve and pleasing functional lines. Unfortunately the span is dominated not only by the barriers but also by the suspension; I find both features quite ugly. I’m not aware of the engineering behind the bridge but the suspension element looks like it was added purely to give the bridge a more distinctive profile rather than serving some structural function. Ya well, it succeeds by giving the bridge a distinctively UGLY profile, in my opinion. In the end it looks like a random jumble of faddish geometric forms. In that respect it contrasts very poorly with the new bridges to the West (at Eustace St. and Blackhall Place) which I like and which, to my eyes, have a coherence or simplicity.

I would have to agree – saw it briefly yesterday and just as in JJ’s pictures unfortunately ugly is a fitting description.

Essentially it looks like a temporary military contraption for accommodating the passage of troops. The gun metal finish not only contributes to this, but as mentioned it looks decidedly drab and dull – and this in blazing sunshine yesterday; one can only imagine its appearance on a cloudy dead day.

Perhaps the grace of the structure, if any, will become apparent upon the removal of the construction devices, but thus far I think it is disappointing.
Agreed with jimg though that the curved span is attractive.

These navigation guides really are a blast of new air to me – how come you don’t see them pretty much anywhere else, or are the world’s rivers just photographed on high tides and have a touch of the old airbrush?!
Never even seen a scheme like Gateshead there either!

The renderings looked a lot better

Took some snaps in town today. The weather was fantastic.

I don’t know what to make of this bridge yet. There’s still a lot of scaffolding hanging off it.

Seagul wings bridge

Custom Spire

I’d give it a chance and wait till its fully installed before fully commenting. The James Joyce bridge had its critics too, now it’s appreciated. But look at the surrounding areas too in the photographs. It really does’nt do the bridge justice either. Jurys Hotel , Citgroup etc….are desperate edifices. All those cranes and the promise of nothing good, but more of the same.

@AndrewP wrote:

Also, the black barriers are only submerged at high tide. When I went to have look, they were jutting up high above the water. Very ugly and surely unneccessary

They seem to have done some work on these lately – I saw them sitting down low on the water at about half tide the other day.

I think it’s worth noting that the bridge and most of the area will be significantly enhanced with the removal of the DDDA offices (which should be soon).

The difference with the James Joyce bridge is that the finished product lived up to the computer renderings. I had no strong opinions about the new pedestrian bridge from the initial images. I think the design was OK, but the finish is crap – even a lick of white paint would help!
I still don’t understand the need for the barriers here if they’re not needed anywhere else on the Liffey.

There are also barriers on the East Link, and as this new bridge rotates to allow boats through I assume it was decided that these were need too. However, I wonder how much traffic will realistically pass through it? Particularly since the basin (George’s Dock?) beside Stack A has been filled in so that the water is only a few feet deep now.

I imagine because both sections of the bridge pivot on their axis to open thus meaning that they will point down (and up) river when open, the barriers are required so boats don’t hit the open bridge head on. This unique design thus requires extra measures to ensure some salty sea dog doesn’t come a cropper. Would be curious to see how often they are opened though ?

The only boats that would come through are the tall ships that go up towards the Customs House.
How often is that? Once a year at most.
Valid criticisms aside, it’s worth reserving judgement on the bridge until you see it in the flesh.
The pictures are not doing it any favours.

Well to be honest, I don’t think it looks any better in the flesh (I pass it going to and from work each day) than in the pictures posted. Maybe, as mentioned, it will look better once all the construction clutter and the DDDA offices (I see they are moving down to the Grand Canal Dock area soon (Today’s IT)) are gone. It just seems like a very overbearing design for a pedestrian bridge which will rarely be opened.

The reason that the Sean O’Casey bridge opens onto such a short stretch of navigation is that the Matt Talbot bridge is the first permanent barrier to navigation up the liffey. If the bridge didn’t open it would be the next permanent barrier – then when the Calatrava Bridge is built at Macken Street people would say why bother having that open if people can only get as far as the Sean O’Casey Bridge. Once that is built, when it comes to the proposed new footbridge between Sir John Rogersons quay (between Bensoon and Forbes Street) and the North Wall – why bother making this a swing bridge if the Macken Street and Sean O’Casey Bridges didn’t open – its all about knock on effects.

It was a good call to make this an opening bridge

Absolutely – which is why as said before it’s such a crying shame the (nonetheless great) Matt Talbot doesn’t open to allow the Tall Ships in front of the Custom House – still an aim I think is worthy of pursuing somehow, albeit an expensive project for an annual photogenic scene.

Agreed about reserving full judgement of the new bridge till finished and everything being removed……(no – not including the bridge itself :))

Graham,
I’ve never thought of the Matt Talbot as great – was that meant as ironic or do you think it has redeeming features?
It’s certainly not as offensive as the usually concrete bridges of that era you find in many English cities. And it has a nice curve and sweep to it, but little else.
A photo of it just in case anyone forgets:
http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/city/c002/liberty-hall-066.jpg

What will happen to the site occupied by the DDDA up to now? Will it become public space?

Speaking of public space, what would anyone think of making the space between the Custom House and the river an open public space? Would it be feasable to redirect the traffc around the other side of Custom House? Just a thought based on looking at Kefu’s (excellent) photo above.

Phil

Why? So the drunks have more space? It would never be used.

I suppose it would depend on the use of the Custom House. I just thought it would be a good way of trying to link the Docklands area with the Boardwalk. The Loop-Line really seems to separate to two areas, so something extra could be needed to try and emphasise the linkage.

Phil, You could definitely reclaim one of the traffic lanes but both would present a whole range of new difficulties.
At the moment, it would be sending trucks around the back of the Customs House near the Luas intersection and back around past the IFSC.
The bridge’s right-turning traffic would have to turn much earlier, and use O’Connell Bridge instead.
However, when the Port Tunnel is completed – it would certainly become more feasible.

A nice idea, but considering you couldn’t put trees in to soften the space, or indeed anything that would impinge on the pristine view of the Custom House, would it end up being rather harsh and windswept? One can already see that effect on the existing wide pavement on the river side – clearly the CC don’t know what to do with it so it’s been left empty save the benches.
And just on these – does anyone else think the benches are facing the wrong way round?! It seems nothing short of criminal that one is forced to face the flippin Ulster Bank of all structures in favour of one of the finest neoclassical buildings in Europe!
I’ve sat there once or twice only having to position myself in such a fashion as to make the experience one not worthy of repeating 🙁

A solution that would allow the best of both worlds – an appreciation of the river and the CH – could be to place the benches/seats facing each other in pairs, allowing groups of drunks, I mean tourists to face each other in comfort 🙂
Putting them up against the quay wall could prove a very pleasant location for a sit-down – not exposed and away from the trucks.

Wasn’t being ironic about the Matt Talbot Kefu – I think it’s one of the nicest bridges on the Liffey, simple, streamlined and elegant (save the railings and surface of course), and dare I say nicer than the James Joyce which frankly I think just looks ridiculous in scale, in that location, and is totally impractical for pedestrians when wet – something I don’t think has been mentioned.

“I think the design was OK, but the finish is crap”

I am not sure that every bridge needs to be painted day glo white. Renderings are generally more colorful.

I like it. It looks industrial. There is something of the Docks about it. I imagine the view from it will be very pleasant, too.

The colour seems to follow the colour of similar dockland structures. Especially the nearby canal bridges which are currently being painted a lighter shade of gray (to better match?).

both of which are wonderful looking – in a totally industrial way.

[pics from Inland Waterways Association of Ireland ]

I love this bridge It seems kind of constructivist I wish it was painted red as a kind of celebration of its presence it might also help to distract from the new bridge. I went down to see it on sunday it just seems so clumsy and over engineered Its like its tryin’ to be a minature if the fosters millenium bridge in london but ………..yea its crap. the matt talbot is quite elegant I think it was post-tensioned on site. and it can take big lorries compared with the most the new bridge might have to take which is a few people? :rolleyes:

That bridge is very classical Dutch canal bridge in style whicj is very pleasing on the eye, it is amazing the lengths the Dutch go to on infrastructural design I particularly like the effort they put into their motorway signs, a small detail but at least they put in a little effort.

Further news for this stretch of the Liffey:

@RTE Interactive wrote:

Jeanie Johnston to be sold to DDA

17 May 2005 17:25
The tall ship Jeanie Johnston is to be sold by her present owners to the Dublin Docklands Authority.

The board of the project committee running the vessel at present has approved the sale for &#8364]http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0517/jeaniej.html[/url]

I think that this is a good acquisition and will be very well received. 🙂

I must say I do not like that vessel and I hope that it does not end up sitting permanently in the Dublin Docklands somewhere!

Why……..?

I genuinly don’t really know why I don’t like it. I just dont really like Tall Ships very much in comparison to other boats. I am also not a big fan of this recreation of historical events, although I can see the purepose behind them. I wonder is it the DDDA’s way of getting a cheap famine museum? How much did it cost to build originally? I heard that it was somewhere around €11 Million.

Sorry to edit, but I just saw that it originally cost 15.5 Million to build!

Hmmm – I’d tend to agree to an extent. Never been fascinated by the scheme either – probably due to being dragged round tallships from Scarborough to Bournemouth bored to tears when younger!

What connection does the ship have with Dublin Port or Docklands?
Did the ship ever even see the Irish Sea?!

It seems to be a bit of a quick-fix happy ending for the troubled scheme, though this of course does depend on what the DDDA tend to do with the vessel.
It’d be more than strange to have the ship permanently moored on the Liffey if that is the intention – the very history of which centres around its life as a trans-Atlantic ship, bringing people to a new life often in ghastly conditons.
Totally inapproriate in fact.
Talk about the Spatial Strategy going out the window…

Absolutely agreed on the principles behind both of your opinions, but unfortunately Fenit lacks the finincial capacity to support a vessel of this nature for the 6-8 months of the year that it won’t be touring on Failte Eireann campaigns. I would guess that Dublin Docklands got this on the basis that it would be more likely to attract corporate support here than anywhere else. I am little surprised that Cork didn’t make a play for it given the relatively higher weighting towards the Port in the Cork economy than in Dublin.

Yes, it is surprising considering their clout, and the fact that the ship sailed from the south-east.
Hopefully the DDDA intend on it visiting here for a substantial part of each year
It belongs to the west coast.

Or you could say it belongs to the North-American Irish Diaspora of 40m in the states and 3m in Canada who wish to see some tangiable reminder of how their ancestors came to a different continent. I followed media reports of its landings in the States and Canada and it was then that I came to the opinion that it may have been a typical semi-state administative financial disaster but the end product was of quality and an instant hit in key tourist markets. Historically it belongs to the West coast and I think a good strategy would to have it move around the key ports from Kinsale to Derry particularly places like Fenit, Foynes, Galway, Westport and Sligo.

From a visual point of view does anyone have an opinion on how it will work with the statues and IFSC House?

@Thomond Park wrote:

From a visual point of view does anyone have an opinion on how it will work with the statues and IFSC House?

Water-Disney! 🙂

But the ship would look good if it was possible to berth it outside the Custom House. A good set piece for the tourism trade and besides, its been a long time since such a masted sea going vessel graced the dock of the old house. Perhaps the DDDA could utilize the ship by daily offering the general public et al sea trips around Dublin bay and the coasts of Ireland. The ship is a great purchase and great addition for the city.

@Thomond Park wrote:

…..From a visual point of view does anyone have an opinion on how it will work with the statues and IFSC House?

Generally it is moored further east than the famine statues but looks great anyway. Down by Clarion. You really get a feel for just how tidal the liffey is if you pass this way throughout the day. It goes from only the rigging being visable right up to it appearing like the ship’s trying to climb out over the quay!

At night (with rigging lights on) it provides a wonderful focal point which is so badly needed for this section of the quays. But during daytime too – it’s great to see it bringing familys with kids into the area too, and makes you think what a missed oportunity the science museum in stack-A was.

I too saw a lot of the coverage of it’s reception in north america and was very impressed with the excitement around it’s arrivals. The queues were massive and the amount of tourist interest it generated must have been significant. The quality of the product is great (esp the structural woodwork).

I’d love the chance to sail in her (short of the 5k to crew it to US) so I think the dublin bay trip may be a good little earner, but hope it wouldn’t impact on it’s primary ambassador role.

Here’s a link showing when the Jeannie was here in Dublin last time ………….

http://www.irelandposters.com/dublin/irish_famine_ship.html

@GregF wrote:

Perhaps the DDDA could utilize the ship by daily offering the general public et al sea trips around Dublin bay and the coasts of Ireland. The ship is a great purchase and great addition for the city.

I suppose this would all depend on how often the East Link lifts per day? Otherewise the ship would have to be docked to the east of it. I will stand corrected once the DDDA state what they are going to use it for, but I am willing to speculate that they will dock it in a permanent location as a docklands and (or) famine museum, with possible once yearly trips for the Tall Ships race.

It would certainly be helpful for the DDDA to state their intentions regarding the vessel. I am happy to give them the benefit of the doubt in the interim but if it were to be permanently moored at one point I would be of a similar opinion to yourself, this ship was intended as a piece of living (and travelling) history and not as a museum piece. If it has the specification for Trans -Atlantic travel then it should at least for part of the year be engaged in promoting this Island in one of the key tourist markets.

It should have been sold to the highest bidder

@JPD wrote:

It should have been sold to the highest bidder

Can’t agree with that
would you apply that logic to all state funded projects or is there something specific to this one?

Well Lots this one in particular as it was supposed to cost 5 million and overran to 15 million plus, at least flogging it they might have got 30 or 40% of the money back. They made a total kebab of this one.

@Thomond Park wrote:

It would certainly be helpful for the DDDA to state their intentions regarding the vessel. I am happy to give them the benefit of the doubt in the interim but if it were to be permanently moored at one point I would be of a similar opinion to yourself, this ship was intended as a piece of living (and travelling) history and not as a museum piece. If it has the specification for Trans -Atlantic travel then it should at least for part of the year be engaged in promoting this Island in one of the key tourist markets.

Perhaps they’ll put it in the dock inside the IFSC – part of the whole Stack A Thaang. There’s a similar thing in london near the Design Centre

I think it would be a disgrace if after all the effort and cost over-runs the boat was simply moored in Dublin’s Docklands to allievate the killing boredom of the landscape creaded by the DDDA.

It’s a relative new ship with an ocean-going ability – sure its home port can be Dublin – but it should be away from the country 8/9 months of the year working for a living.

DDDA announce new permanent National Famine Monument whilst promising opportunities for sail training (believe it or believe it not).

Dublin Docklands to acquire Jeanie Johnston
18th May 2005
DUBLIN DOCKLANDS AUTHORITY TO ACQUIRE JEANIE JOHNSTON

The Docklands Authority confirms that it is moving towards a contract to purchase the famine replica ship, the Jeanie Johnston from its previous owners – Kerry Group plc; Shannon Development and Kerry County Council/Tralee Town Council.

The Docklands Authority plans to locate the Jeanie Johnston upstream of the new pedestrian bridge on Custom House Quay creating a new visitor attraction on the River Liffey. The ship will be right beside the striking Rowan Gillespie famine sculpture and together, they will operate as a national monument to the famine. The Docklands Authority is also interested in partnering with organisations to take advantage of sail training and other opportunities.

Peter Coyne, Chief Executive, Dublin Docklands Authority said “We are delighted to be able to provide a permanent Irish home for the Jeanie Johnston on Dublin’s River Liffey. It will be a major visitor attraction for the Docklands area, and fits ideally with our river regeneration focus.

“Few attractions exist in Dublin telling the horrific story of the Irish famine of the 1800s. The Jeanie Johnston and the Rowan Gillespie famine statutes can be viewed together as a national monument commemorating this important part of Irish history. It is planned to develop them as a major new Dublin tourist attraction at the gateway to Dublin’s Docklands”

The Jeanie Johnston will participate in this year’s Docklands Maritime Festival from 17th-19th June and is also committed to taking part in the Tall Ships Festival in Waterford in July.

Background: The Jeanie Johnston was built at a cost of €14 million as a Millennium Project to celebrate the historic links between Ireland and North America. The recreation of the Jeanie Johnston was one of the most ambitious maritime heritage projects ever undertaken in Ireland. The ship is an exact replica of the Irish famine ship with some minor adjustments to meet current maritime standards.

The Jeanie Johnston currently operates as a museum when in port and is certified by the Marine Surveyor’s Office (MSO) as a Class A Sail Training Vessel and has a Class VI Passenger License for day sailings.

Up to 29 sail trainees can be accommodated on board the Jeanie Johnston along with a core crew of 11.

DDDA Press Release

@Paul Clerkin wrote:

I think it would be a disgrace if after all the effort and cost over-runs the boat was simply moored in Dublin’s Docklands to allievate the killing boredom of the landscape creaded by the DDDA.

It’s a relative new ship with an ocean-going ability – sure its home port can be Dublin – but it should be away from the country 8/9 months of the year working for a living.

Unfortunately, as speculated upon earlier, it would appear that this will be its main occupation.

ahh,,,, “street furniture”

.. should have bought one of the Guinness ships when they could 😉

so i finally saw the o’casey bridge actually closing yesterday and yes, the ends aren’t quite square across, there is a slight slant relative to a square end to allow them to fit together without any messing.

@Lotts wrote:

The colour seems to follow the colour of similar dockland structures. Especially the nearby canal bridges which are currently being painted a lighter shade of gray (to better match?).

I saw this bridge yesterday with its new paint it looks fantastic; the grey colour really brings the detail out and it was obviously prepared properly prior to painting as the finish is perfect.

The opening mechanism of the Sean O’Casey bridge will be interesting to see open and close I’d say, what went upstream or were they just testing?

The structure is due to open to the public at the end of June according to the signs.

I had a good look at many of the proposed schemes for John Rogersons Quay, architecturally there is not one of them that is of a high standard with the new O2 Hq definitely looking the cheapest of the bunch. To think they will be leaving Stephensons Bord Na Mona to enter a badly executed copy, In its half finished state it does no advertising for BKD.

would you apply that logic to all state funded projects or is there something specific to this one?

I’m with JPD on this one. What benefit does the public derive from the fact that the ship is owned by the state?
As far as I know, if you want to crew on the ship it costs a bundle at the moment. How much worse would it be if it were privately owned and operated? At least if someone bought it, it would be used as intended – i.e. sailed.

From taking a good look at the new Bridge Yesterday, I think the design is good, I like it. It’s funny how much the backdrop can alter your perception, from one angle it looks great, with IFSC as background, but from others it’s not as good. There’s just so much crap around the Quays, Jury’s Inn & the suburban type council houses being the worst.

What would benefit the bridge would be a more contrasting colour, I think it could be done well. But does it sound a bit DIYish to be painting over the new bridge?

So what does every one think ? Walked over it this morning, remindeds me of a mini version of London’s Millenuim Bridge

i assume the fountains attached to the sides of the bridge yesterday were a temporary feature.

Yes, they are. From today’s Irish Times:

The event would not have been complete without a baptism, and thanks to the decision to erect temporary fountains on either side of the new structure for the ceremony, this was duly achieved.
When Mr Ahern led the inaugural walkover, a sea-borne breeze ensured it wasn’t just the bridge that got a wetting. The fountains had to be turned down on the up-wind side before the walk-over could be safely completed.

😀

What gives with new bridge? What’s the point? It’s so near t’other one up by IFSC that it seems to me all it saves is a 2 minute walk.

Why didn’t they build it further east?

2 minutes to yer average IFSC’er is very valuable. It’s all money money money dontcha know. Well, either that or 2 minutes more latte time. Biggest problem around there is trying to get northside across the bridge on a bicycle, with the one way system on the south side of the quays it’s quite horrendous. I can see many cyclists using the new bridge for a convenient shortcut

Ah! Guilty as charged already. I cycled across it last night as the fountains were being taken down. It was nice to look down towards the bridge this morning from Matt Talbot and see people walking across. Its a much more attractive crossing than Matt Talbot. My initial gripes about the galvanised steel structure (HATE galvanised steel) have been address with a lick of silver paint but I can see this getting particularly grubby as the sea air and traffic take their toll. I still think the bridge design is a little ungainly though.

Now lets have Macken Street!

@CaptainCrisps wrote:

What gives with new bridge? What’s the point? It’s so near t’other one up by IFSC that it seems to me all it saves is a 2 minute walk.

Why didn’t they build it further east?

as an ex IFSC’r this bridge cuts ages off a walking commute – it’s in exactly the right location as it provides a speedy link between the IFSC and Westland Row Merrion Sq etc.

Anyway when the Calatrava goes up there will be another crossing at Macken St

The Docklands master plan also indicates another pedestrian bridge at Castleforbes street and a lifting bridge across the Royal Canal/Dodder at Ringsend.
JJ

Any more?! 🙂 At least this stretch can handle them.

Yes, as a route this new bridge is very welcome, esp if crossing from Connolly to Pearse. Crucially you also avoid the very pedestrian-unfriendly environment of the Matt Talbot/Custom House area – the route is nice and direct now.

Next on the list for improvements is Lombard St itself – what a distaster zone.

Loitered at the bridge opening for a while yesterday. After Bertie’s speech I could only handle about 5 minutes of the new DDDA CEO’s speech, but I managed to catch him saying that construction of the Macken Street bridge would commence next year.

@adhoc wrote:

Loitered at the bridge opening for a while yesterday. After Bertie’s speech I could only handle about 5 minutes of the new DDDA CEO’s speech, but I managed to catch him saying that construction of the Macken Street bridge would commence next year.

Hey Adhoc,
I was there too. Got a few pictures . Low res I’m afraid ( must get a decent digital camera ) but they give some idea of what its like. Also saw the new river boat which I snapped as well.
JJ

I have’nt seen the bridge yet but it looks good in the photos. As said before pity about the really bad environs. What an awful backdrop. Roll on the construction of the next Calatrava bridge however.

By the way, is Peter Coyne gone from the DDDA? Is he the CEO replaced?

He was at the ceremony but so was the new chap. I think he’s finishing out his handover. Terry Durney was there too. All in all I think they have done a great job.
JJ

I was gooing over the DDDA plan for Grand Canal Dock. I know that the Macken St Br is next and I cant wait for it, so forgive me if Im jumping ahead here, but is there any developments of the Forbes Steet and the Britain Qy (crossing the Canal) pedestrian bridges. Are there any designs made for theses yet?

All pie in the sky at the moment I think… or “aspirational” as an architect would say

Why do they need a bridge for Britain Quay, you can walk across the locks so easily, and its so much more interesting than more bridge-masturbation by engineer-architects