New Dublin Outer Ring Road
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Also pro: how many lives that would otherwise have been lost have been saved.
Road deaths were down to 239 last year, the lowest on record.
You can’t attribute all of that to the motorway network but it was a major contributor.@kefu wrote:
Also pro: how many lives that would otherwise have been lost have been saved.
Road deaths were down to 239 last year, the lowest on record.
You can’t attribute all of that to the motorway network but it was a major contributor.Certainly a welcome development, but perhaps the road safety aspect of motorway building has been little sold to the public, – very many believe wrongly they are more dangerous than local roads. Of course, if the objective is to reduce deaths, there are cheaper options than spending on any roads. One wonders how quickly the traffic returns once economic conditions improve, I would guess very quickly indeed.
Whenever I hear how great the new Dublin-Cork road is, I can help reflecting on the following statistic;
London – Paris 495km including some 37 underwater. 2 hours 15 mins.
Dublin – Cork by train 250km – 3hrs 5m (or would take 6 hours to reach Paris!)
Dublin – Cork by road 2hrs 30m ish…
Absurd.
Of course, if the objective is to reduce deaths, there are cheaper options than spending on any roads.
I think 3 people died being hit by trains this year…..
€10 million/km is the accepted cost of LGV East. NRA spend slightly less at €8m/km, but clearly more km of motorway coverage is required.
So, apart from the obvious of IE’s involvement. Why can’t we have a high-speed rail network?
And why can’t we get more freight onto rail?@Andrew Duffy wrote:
Irish Rail is currently upgrading the line from Hazelhatch to Heuston by extending it to four tracks, building new stations, relocating others and preparing for electrificiation. It’s called the “Kildare Route Project” and is documented on the website. The effect of it will be dramatically improved commuter services and more reliable long-distance services.
(2005)
http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey/printed_timetable_pdfs/2010/Dublin%20Portlaoise%2010.pdf
O’RLY??
Dramatic – 4 trains in the morning, one AFTER 9am into Dublin.
ONE, yes ONE from Park West to Dublin in the peak evening rush hour, and if you miss it, an hour and forty minutes to the next one.Pathetic.
Though when I hear how great the M8 route is (and I was on it at the weekend) I just think Cork – Dublin 2.5hrs and no motorway services – genius
Just to refresh memories on this issue; during the mid to late 1990’s, chambers of commerce from every two bit town to be by-passed, campaigned vigorously to ensure service areas were not part of the national motorway network out of fear that the loss of the heavy passing trade would mean the end of many local businesses. That was the basis for the NRA’s original decision, as we know well, local lobbying works in this country, regardless of logic.
Sadly very true Peter, there is no logic not to tender service opportunities every 30kms on the main routes. The process should be based on 50 year building leases with rents (after capital offsets) being based on a designated share of turnover and the proceeds should go into the pensions reserve fund to meet future liabilities.
On Derry it would make a lot more sense to contribute to an upgrade of the Route from Newry to Derry and utilise the excellent asset that is the M1/A1 plus NI still gets the maximum structural funds rate 😉
the proceeds should go into the pensions reserve fund to meet future liabilities.
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I beg to differ, the proceeds should go towards building 21st century sustainable public transport links like the TGV that make train travel a more appealing option to a wider audience. If we invested in high-speed links you would have a choice of a one hour journey by rail or three by car. This would also mean it would break the isolation of the west from Dublin based economic activity.I don’t see that scale of return from a revenue share on 20-25 petrol stations and rest complexes.
. The costs of building high speed rail are immense the mooted cost for HS2 in the UK from London to Manchester is c£20bn for a route slightly longer than Dublin – Cork. It is however worth saying that China will
construct c50,000kms of HS spec rail by 2030 but they have much more pressing population management challenges.In 1984 a train left Cork every Sunday evening at 7pm it was in Heuston by 920pm; if those kind of journey times could be replicated the train would be a lot more attractive than driving. The key in my view to Public transport is the time one gets from the door to the city boundary at either end in that regard the IC and combined Luas network will give regional rail a significant boost; a Luas for Cork would also help dramatically.
A one-hour journey from Dublin to Galway/Limerick etc would only concentrate further economic activity around the capital. We would then have the strong possibility of people commuting from these cities, a virtual replication of the extant problem with car commuters transferred to long-distance rail commuters.
Building a high-speed rail line between Manchester and London is one thing when you have two separate population centres, both with a greater number of people than this entire country.
If people complain about economic value from the infrastructural projects we have, the motorway projects, Metro etc, then how can they suggest a €20 billion investment on high-speed between Galway and Dublin or elsewhere is viable. On no possible measure does it add up.@kefu wrote:
A one-hour journey from Dublin to Galway/Limerick etc would only concentrate further economic activity around the capital. We would then have the strong possibility of people commuting from these cities, a virtual replication of the extant problem with car commuters transferred to long-distance rail commuters.
Building a high-speed rail line between Manchester and London is one thing when you have two separate population centres, both with a greater number of people than this entire country.
If people complain about economic value from the infrastructural projects we have, the motorway projects, Metro etc, then how can they suggest a €20 billion investment on high-speed between Galway and Dublin or elsewhere is viable. On no possible measure does it add up.I agree; the project highlighted above was Eurostar which is expected to carry 10m passenger journeys this year; a very good project that dislodged London-Paris as the Worlds busiest air-route where fares averaged c€200 for a round trip so premium prices could easily be charged. I raised the costs of London – Manchester merely to give an indication on costs of construction.
You are right to argue that neither end of the bar-bell in Cork or Dublin have sufficient population to make such an investment viable. But lets be honest with some of the road projects that have been built or the proposed MN you must ask does the Dept of Transport understand the concept of viability?
kefu: not wishing to be argumentative (indeed, not like me), but I wish people in Ireland would stop copying Pat Kenny in claiming that ‘Manchester’ has a greater population than ‘the entire country’ of Ireland. The last time I looked, Greater Manchester had a population of c. 2.5m; Ireland (Republic) has c.4.5m; Ireland (island) has c.6.3m. Indeed, Ireland has a greater population than the mighty Manchester and Liverpool combined (i.e. c. 2.5m + 1.5m = c.4.0m), but so what? There are many small countries of around 4-5m. Do I detect a colonial cringe, kefu?
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