New Dublin Outer Ring Road

http://www.newcityforthewest.com/news/PioneerFeb02editorial.htm

ooh heaven is a place on earth

Yet everyone still wants to move to dublin. Who do you think all the new houses are being built for????!!!!!And yeah, the roads are desperate, loads of houses are being put in and no infrastructure whatsoever. You build a new housing estate, you should HAVE to contribute to the upgrading of existing transport-I mean buses and trains etc,- or provide new transport-stations, etc, like the estate being built near Howth, beside the railway line.A new station is being put in as part of that development. Means more overcrowding on the trains, but at least it’s a start….

@suzy61 wrote:

You build a new housing estate, you should HAVE to contribute to the upgrading of existing transport-I mean buses and trains etc,- or provide new transport-stations, etc, like the estate being built near Howth, beside the railway line.A new station is being put in as part of that development. Means more overcrowding on the trains, but at least it’s a start….

Contrary to opinion previously expressed here developers do pay significant contributions for transport infrastructure, take Adamstown for example where there will be a train station next year and a 2 QBC’s inside the estate as well as the developers stumping up 11,000 per unit of which 40% or 4,400 per unit is directly attributable to the provision of roads, rail etc.

The problem here is not that the private sector isn’t contributing, it is that Local Authorities are not spending the development levies on the purpose for which the monies were levied in the first place. The local authorities are not in a position to do so because successive governments are not giving the local authorities sufficient funding to run their existing services such as Waste, Libraries and parks.

Where this is particularly noticeable are in places such as Kildare, Meath and Westmeath where the developers have paid up but the Local Authorites have diverted the cash, what is required are regional transport development bodies along the lines of the regional waste authorities that have responsibility for allocating the funds as levied. The current situation is not acceptable and this outer ring road will be little more than an orbital carpark shortly after completion.

Irish Rail is currently upgrading the line from Hazelhatch to Heuston by extending it to four tracks, building new stations, relocating others and preparing for electrificiation. It’s called the “Kildare Route Project” and is documented on the website. The effect of it will be dramatically improved commuter services and more reliable long-distance services.

@Rory W wrote:

So you think it makes sense that a truck coming from Belfast to go to Limerick (for an example) should go via Dublin and the M50?

If a decent alternative existed for commuters the M50 mightn’t be the carpark that it is, if the Navan Rail link were built, when the Kildare 4 tracking is completed in 2009 and if a central interconnector metro took these commuters to the places that they worked than a second ring road mightn’t be required.

As it stands a second ring road is being foisted on the Irish tax-payer by stealth with the first two sections of N7-N4 under construction and the N2- N3 at a very advanced planning stage. The N3 – N4 and N1 – N2 sections will magically appear next and all talk of a proper rail system will disappear once the by-elections are completed.

I am quoting odds of 2/7 on the N3- N4 section having a hefty toll

@suzy61 wrote:

And one more question-why are there so many roundabouts with traffic lights on them?They cancel each other out!!?

Free-flow junctions are the ideal solution where motorways cross, but they require more bridges hence more money. As far as I know Europe would not fund the (original) M50 with these junctions in the 80’s etc. because it was a completely new route and traffic volume predictions were not trusted (suspicion that traffic volume would not justify the expense). Hence M50 has large roundabouts.

Obviously roundabouts give more free-flow than purely signal controlled junctions (traffic lights). However, roundabouts always give priority to traffic already on the roundabout, i.e. from junctions to the right. Thus an enormous flood of cars trying to join a roundabout will be severaly blocked by even a modest stream of cars from a junction to the right, if that stream is mostly continuing around the roundabout. Traffic lights are used on busy roundabouts to prevent this happenning: traffic lights actually improve the flow and reduce the average waiting time. They can be tuned so that different roads have different priorities depending on time of day etc.

Finally, I notice that in UK they now have roundabouts with traffic lights that are only switched on at rush hour. Best of both worlds (for non-motorway crossings)?

@suzy61 wrote:

Why can’t they fix the problems we have instead of creating new ones, such as “outer ring roads”?

If you or anyone else knows how to solve ‘the problems’ without impacting the public, please let us know!

thanks for the info re:updating the kildare line, I wasn’t aware that plan existed. Although I’d have to wait to see it happening before I put too much faith in it, after years of getting commuter trains. The train line that runs at the back of Croke Park, is this also being upgraded and (re)opened?It looks as though it might be, and it would definitely be a great idea

@Rory W wrote:

So you think it makes sense that a truck coming from Belfast to go to Limerick (for an example) should go via Dublin and the M50?

I don’t think that drivers going from Belfast to Limerick should have to go via the M50. I am slightly at a loss as to exactly where you think they should go.Would you mind explaining this statement? What I meant was that the M50 is currently in existence and there are major problems with it. The toll plaza appears to be a major source of traffic jams, along with the Blanchardstown exit, and the Red Cow roundabout exit. Very little thought has been given to how this might be fixed-I know upgrading is currently taking place-but it is only beginning, we face years of sitting in traffic still.Anyway, does it make much sense to just create a second, similar situation, just a few miles further out from the city?With the solution to that being a third outer ring road/orbital road?No thought seems to be given to the source of all this traffic-thousands of people living in the outer reaches of Dublin, with no other way to get to the city.

@suzy61 wrote:

thanks for the info re:updating the kildare line, I wasn’t aware that plan existed. Although I’d have to wait to see it happening before I put too much faith in it, after years of getting commuter trains. The train line that runs at the back of Croke Park, is this also being upgraded and (re)opened?It looks as though it might be, and it would definitely be a great idea

I don’t think that drivers going from Belfast to Limerick should have to go via the M50. I am slightly at a loss as to exactly where you think they should go.Would you mind explaining this statement? What I meant was that the M50 is currently in existence and there are major problems with it. The toll plaza appears to be a major source of traffic jams, along with the Blanchardstown exit, and the Red Cow roundabout exit. Very little thought has been given to how this might be fixed-I know upgrading is currently taking place-but it is only beginning, we face years of sitting in traffic still.Anyway, does it make much sense to just create a second, similar situation, just a few miles further out from the city?With the solution to that being a third outer ring road/orbital road?No thought seems to be given to the source of all this traffic-thousands of people living in the outer reaches of Dublin, with no other way to get to the city.

My point is about the outer orbital route from Drogheda to Nerwbridge via Navan which bypasses Dublin altogether and is far enough out from the M50 hoprefully to be effective

What was originally proposed was motorway

Thought this thread could do with a revival since the Dublin-Waterford motorway is finished, and soon the Limerick-Dublin motorway. The only remaining route to Dublin to be improved is the N2/A5 to Derry. So 5 years later, lets look at the pros and cons.

Pro:
journeys between Waterford, Cork, Kerry, Limerick, Clare, Galway and Louth, Down, Armagh Antrim would be greatly improved.
It would relive congestion on the M50 and some national secondary/regional roads.
It would make Cork and Belfast more attractive places to do business because of the added connectivity
Con:
we’ve no money
We’ve no way of determining if there is high demand for such a route
The rent-a-hippy crowd will be camping on site in no time.