New Appartment Blocks
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It is obviously a tendency to offer the minimum standards to the apartment buyers in Dublin today.
Of course there are certain exceptions like the super pent-houses in Carrickmines or Howth rd. But in general, 95% of the apartments that have been built in dublin in the last 5 years provide the minimum standards, in terms of space, size, design, detailing, etc. And it is only because there is no need to provide anything a little bit better as anything will sell; as it’s been said, a lot of people would preffer to buy anything to pay rent, even if it is a very low standard apartment.
The bottom line of this is that developers will build them as small and cheap as they can get away with and nobody is going to complain, on the contrary a lot of people may see them as the way to improve their life-styles.
If consumers keep buying bad quality apartments, developers will build them for ever and ever, unless the architects begin to take responsability for their work and produce the best possible design, unfortunately ethics and good money don’t seem to get along very well so it seems that architects have been blinded in this respect and believe that morals aren’t an issue here. So I believe they should be directed by and controlled by institutions such as the RIAI and planning authorities in a very strict legal way.
It is obviously a tendency to offer the minimum standards to the apartment buyers in Dublin today.
Of course there are certain exceptions like the super pent-houses in Carrickmines or Howth rd. But in general, 95% of the apartments that have been built in dublin in the last 5 years provide the minimum standards, in terms of space, size, design, detailing, etc. And it is only because there is no need to provide anything a little bit better as anything will sell; as it’s been said, a lot of people would preffer to buy anything to pay rent, even if it is a very low standard apartment.
The bottom line of this is that developers will build them as small and cheap as they can get away with and nobody is going to complain, on the contrary a lot of people may see them as the way to improve their life-styles.
If consumers keep buying bad quality apartments, developers will build them for ever and ever, unless the architects begin to take responsability for their work and produce the best possible design, unfortunately ethics and good money don’t seem to get along very well so it seems that architects have been blinded in this respect and believe that morals aren’t an issue here. So I believe they should be directed by and controlled by institutions such as the RIAI and planning authorities in a very strict legal way.
I think that there is a tendancy to quote figures from thin air in this debate.
RIAI dont even have professional recognition in this country, lest any power over the planning process, or building regs.
People need to live somewhere, and your own property will cost the same as renting.
Why do you expect cheap apartments?Dublin, & Ireland is growing at a tremendous rate & we are one of the worlds largest centres for the worlds fastest growing industry, computers.
To rent in Ireland doesnt usually make sense, as a long term lease is difficult to obtain.
Also, if a developer builds with the regulations, how can anyone tell make them do otherwise.
You cant create legislation to force people to build bigger bedrooms at the same cost, because you say so. Get real, you cant force someone into a non-profit enterprise.
If people want quality accomodation, they must be willing to pay the big money, QEDI do not think that anyone suggests attempting to force people into non-profit enterprise. I do think that it would be defeatist to argue that it would be impossible to create conditions(legally) which would ensure better quality homes. Excellent apartments do not have to be very large, rather the design can be used to maximise the space available, and still produce ‘quality’.It is possible to introduce certain standards but it would be far more effective if planners were responsive and forceful in their dealings with particular developments. Should we be afraid to tackle the problem of sub-standard developments because we might upset developers? Should we not demand high(er) building standards generally?
It is obviously a tendency to offer the minimum standards to the apartment buyers in Dublin today.
Of course there are certain exceptions like the super pent-houses in Carrickmines or Howth rd. But in general, 95% of the apartments that have been built in dublin in the last 5 years provide the minimum standards, in terms of space, size, design, detailing, etc. And it is only because there is no need to provide anything a little bit better as anything will sell; as it’s been said, a lot of people would preffer to buy anything to pay rent, even if it is a very low standard apartment.
The bottom line of this is that developers will build them as small and cheap as they can get away with and nobody is going to complain, on the contrary a lot of people may see them as the way to improve their life-styles.
If consumers keep buying bad quality apartments, developers will build them for ever and ever, unless the architects begin to take responsability for their work and produce the best possible design, unfortunately ethics and good money don’t seem to get along very well so it seems that architects have been blinded in this respect and believe that morals aren’t an issue here. So I believe they should be directed by and controlled by institutions such as the RIAI and planning authorities in a very strict legal way.
MK, I would like to ask you something,
Do you think that the majority of the apartment blocks reflect the best possible solution to the housing problem???
Do you think that nobody can create anything better and still make money?
Don’t you think that such a mediocre attitude is unhealthy?
X
To raise the point about building regulations, didn’nt the government introduce a minimum standard size for an appartment (including ceiling heigh) a couple of years because of the miniscule dimensions of the appartments being built then.It is up to the government to introduce such laws insuring and enforcing quality in the building industry instead of pandering to their croanies in such circles.
The idea of debating the slums of tomorrow in the same context as words such as ‘architects’ or ‘architecture’ is somewhat laughable. The average developer does not care about anyones quality of life but their own. Architects are hired today purely for the reason of obtaining planning permissions to construct second rate tenements for the investor market. The cynical regard for some of those who wish to make a better place for people to live in is appalling. Wishing for a legislation for a quality of life or architecture when both the legislators and the developers in Ireland are in the same bed is purely is a bit like wishing for world peace.
By the way you all have a choice: support An Taisce or create your own lobby to appeal this s**t that is being thrown at you. Just because you don’t have to live in it by choice or circumstance doesn’t give you the right to mouth off about the ridiculous quality of new building stock in Ireland without making yourself heard. We can’t depend on the assholes in Dail Eireann to do anything but legislate for higher salaries for themselves. Enough.‘Barbarosa’, could you please explain what a ‘psuedo-religious semi-communist state’ implies. I am not being smart here but I think that the description is somewhat paradoxical.
‘Whatever’, do you honestly think that people should not be allowed to be critical of sub-standard housing quality, simply because they do not live in them? Are we limited to accepting the situation and should we discourage ambition, because it seems like government seems disinterested in tackling the problem. In Ireland we are so often guilty of ecouraging mediocrity, accepting low standards, and disregarding creativity.Hi bunch,I don’t wish to give a lecture on the history and social fabric of 20th century Ireland,(Re – pseudo religious semi communist state) but what I was implying was that our country once projected an image of itself as being deeply religious and ‘moral’ but yet the truth was the opposite, as you may know already. Hidden were the misfortunes and malices that befell the people; disadvantages and deprivation were to be accepted.The decades that followed WW2 were a boom time for western economies but yet here in Ireland there remained a somewhat stiffling atmosphere similar one could say to what was going on behind the Iron Curtain. Our country endured severe censorship laws under the ‘regimes’ of DeVelera, the Catholic church & Co. Hardly an environment for fostering and nurturing an educated artistic and ‘well rounded’ people. Therefore the subsequent results is the society we have today of which I have mentioned already. Hence to quote yourself…’In Ireland we are so often guilty of ecouraging mediocrity, accepting low standards, and disregarding creativity’.
Fion,
Cheap apartments are never a solution to the housing problem. Who said that it was???
In my opinion, the real housing crisis, i.e. the homeless & those below the poverty line, will never be the realm of the developer. What developer builds houses for those who cant afford them?
The National Building Agency have been designing and building some of the finest housing projects in Ireland for the past 30 years & still do today. The NBA provides homes for the homeless & the poverty stricken.Fion, as Im sure you know, all creativity that improves life and advances mankind can make money. What in the name of god do you think every single company in the world does. Is the motor car not an innovative machine, or the car, or the aeroplane?
Have you never heard of a wealthy inventor?
However, a developer will not nurture innovation, if it does not make a profit. Very few developers will give an architect the scope to try groundbreaking soical housing experiments on their time & money. The developers want a quick buck.Regulations are in place concerning minimum sizes of bedrooms etc., but the minimun and what is comfortable are two different things for the comfy educated middle classes who wish to buy the apartments.
Nobody should accept mediocrity, housing doesnt have to be mediocre, it just has to be taken out of the hands of the greedy developer.
In Post War Britain & Ireland(WW2), almost all architects and planners worked for their respective state bodies. It was a time when architects felt the common cause and wished to do the right thing. In this period, responsible, cost effective housing and planning was achieved. This can still happen today, if young designers & developers can stop paying lip service to good housing & design and instead forfeit their high wages to work for state bodies. Now we will see how easy it is to give up your wealth & chances of the quick buck.One wonders how elsewhere around the world in the past great architectural wonders were ever completed amid the atmosphere of political corruption and fiddling, ie the doges of Venice, the de Medici’s, the Borgias, etc….etc….
Apartment blocks constitute a VERY important part of the city as they usually are prominent buildings.
The impact that this buildings have on the streets determines what the city looks like. Therefore it is everybody’s buisiness what the general appearance of an apartment block is going to be. That’s why a specialized body in charge of maintaining a good desing standard is needed. Let’s face it, a lot of these apartment blocks are built without a commitment to enrich the city’s appearance.
Is the developer the responsable for the design of an apt block? I think that as long they are guaranteed a profit, they should not be involved in the design process; hasn’t it been said that money is the sole motivation of a developer.
Barbarosa, fair enough, and thank you for the explanation, I now know what you mean.
SIS, good point about apartment buildings and the fact that it is everybody’s right to be concerned about the appearance of them.Some of my thoughts on the subject:
I rented very happily for years as house prices soared around me. As soon as I made the decision to get married my thoughts turned to owning my own home. Had we been able to get security of tenure, which is possible in almost every other country in Europe, I believe, we would have continued to rent.
Why own if you could rent economically a quality premises that you could call “home” for all intents and purposes? Renting does not have to be the same price as a mortgage. Currently low interest rates and increased rents since the last (lamentable) Bacon Report make it so at the moment. Therefore I firmly believe sorting out legislation in relation to renting and encouraging a class of professional landlords is key to solving the housing crisis. Reduce demand, lower the price.
However, there is something in the Irish psyche which makes people crave ownership and eshue long-term tenancy. It’s catch 22 – tenants are transient, therefore don’t invest in quality apartments, therefore no tenants would contemplate renting on a long term basis. I believe we’re a long way from the German or Dutch model of understanding the concept of never owning one’s own home.
I work in one of those aforementioned architects’ practices employed to do planning permissions for developers. I’ve become wholy demoralised recently as I realise that our scope of work amounts to little more than draughtmanship. I’m ready and willing to pack in the private sector and join any local authority that will have me. I want to feel that my lifeswork will contribute to the solution rather than the problem – still got that naivite I guess.
Sorry about the length of this (& spelling errors) but I’ve three more thoughts: Despite being an architect involved with many housing and apartment schemes and fairly well versed in the solutions required (eg. high-density, shared-ownership, 20% social etc.), when it came to buying my own home I wouldn’t touch new build with a barge pole for the following reasons –
poor standard of usually unsuprevised construction;
too small for the price;
if affordable ususally in areas with no infrastructure;
would have to move again within three years which is not a good idea in the current market.
The house I’m lucky enough to call my own will do me for at least 10 years – enough time for just about anything to happen to the housing market.The development of “Sustainable housing” in this country is crucial i.e. houses people can live in all their lives and that are easily adapted to their changing needs and in areas with social mix – not all rows of three-beds together and avoiding “contamination” (estate agent phrase – depressing isn’t it?) from two-beds or any adjacent social housing schemes.
Last point: I have visited apartment complexes in The Netherlands where you neighbour could own his own apt. or have subsidised rent or be on social and you wouldn’t know nor would you care. We are a long way from understanding this in Ireland too.
Ok! Can anybody recall good apartment blocks?
Something like the corporation flat, the curved building, in the corner of New bride st and Kevin st, or the Iveagh Buildings or the Wooden building. Also HJL’s one on the quays, right beside the Sunlight chambers. O’Muire Smyth designed another building on Beresford St., near King ST north. The apartments at Essex St. opposite the civic offices.
There are lots more! Can you add on a few?
……….but the bad out number the good ……and the good are overpriced…you have to pay very dearly for quality.
Charlotte Quay and eh!………..
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