November 18, 2005 at 4:14 pm #708247
NCAD want to move out to Belfield; I think this is terrible idea!
Internationally location is so important for how a third level institution is regarded, moving to Belfield has been a disaster for UCD in this regard and following them will be a disaster for NCAD.
Their current site is so cool, the reused industrial buildings are fabulous and the atmostsphere at the degree shows is brilliant with everyone crowded in.
It’s bad for the middle of town, having different types of institution all together is good for eveyone and being near galleries and so on is good for the students.
Its bad to be on Belfield too because they will be too close to UCD, whatever the detailed situation is, they will be regarded as part of UCD.
November 18, 2005 at 5:12 pm #763273
As a graduate of NCAD, I’m appalled. It’s a terrible suggestion as Belfield is a cultural wasteland – art and design schools need to be in the city, close to galleries etc
November 18, 2005 at 5:34 pm #763274urbanistoParticipant
Theres a good letter about this in todays Times comparing it to the original move of UCD to Belfield and the loss to the city of a major campus in its heart. I think NCAD is fine where it is. The whole Thomas Street area needs an anchor to get it up to a good standard again
November 18, 2005 at 5:54 pm #763275Frank TaylorParticipant
Could it move to Grangegorman with DIT instead?
November 19, 2005 at 12:41 am #763276antoParticipant
why is belfiels still such a wasteland. Has having a school of architecture there influence on what gets built?
November 19, 2005 at 6:50 am #763277
its not just about buildings… its about the prevailing culture
November 20, 2005 at 4:43 pm #763278AnonymousParticipant
It is also about the Thomas St/ HighSt area that wouldbe significantly damaged in both a micro economic sense and culturally if NCAD were to move anywhere.
Who comes up with these ideas?
November 21, 2005 at 4:04 pm #763279riraParticipant
i doubt DIT would want them to move there, the site is pretty much going to be fully used and also DIT does have a school of art, so unless NCAD wants to become part of DIT…
actually the recent vertical project in DIT was to design a masterplan for the move and there’s an exhibition to accompany it, just finished in bolton st but it should be in aungier st in january
November 21, 2005 at 4:18 pm #763280
DIT is going to fill the site! But its huge! Is there a masterplan on the web somewhere?
November 21, 2005 at 4:28 pm #763281
November 21, 2005 at 4:34 pm #763282
That’s kind of what i was worried about; UCD Dublin is a bit inclined towards this and their layout is a disaster as a consequence. I hope at least they will have quads or avenues like TCD and DCU, rather than a mess like UCD and Maynooth now they have deserted St Patricks.
But lets not drift of topic: leave NCAD where it is, moving to Belfield would be a disaster.
November 23, 2005 at 4:18 pm #763283SueParticipant
It seems that this NCAD move is being driven by Colm O Briain, ex Labour party guru. I don’t think the board is fully supportive, and the student/teacher population certainly isn’t. Given the spate of bad publicity since this story broke, O’Briain may well back off/deny it’s happening/claim he was misquoted or whatever
November 23, 2005 at 5:24 pm #763284
I tried emailing this Colm O Briain guy urging him to argue against any move, his reply made me think he was, as Sue says, the one suggesting the move. He also didn’t seem to understand the value of a city centre site or to have any real, impressive, ambitions for NCAD. I hope he backs off.
I wonder if any of the DIT property could help; I guess none of its nearby and the Mountjoy Buildings are the only ones suitably fitted out for art. What’s in DIT Temple Bar and how big is it?
November 23, 2005 at 5:58 pm #763285
As one of the main movers behind the foundation of the Project Arts Centre, and as one of the instigators of the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage (and more generally the Dept of Arts Culture and the Gaeltacht, as was) in his capacity as advisor to Michael D Higgins, Colm O’Briain has had a very positive impact on the fabric of Dublin and on the wider built environment field. If true, it’s a pity he’s decided to nail his colours to this particular mast.
I can’t see how it would benefit NCAD in any way other than financial (assuming they own the Thomas St buildings), though the last time I was up there for the end of year show in June I was struck by just how overcrowded the buildings were, confirmed by friends who are studying there or have studied there in the last few years. Perhaps they can’t afford to expand on the site?
One other point, slightly off topic- I’m a fan of much of the UCD campus, mainly the original Wejchert scheme. The problems with the campus layout today stem from a combination of administrative ignorance and benefactors’ pride (“Here’s a million quid, as long as I can choose the site.”). Although I agree that it should never have moved from the city centre in the first place- President Tierney and his fear of the Protestant sphere of influence (see The Destruction of Dublin for detail).
Here’s hoping the NCAD administration sees sense.
November 23, 2005 at 6:39 pm #763286
i agree ctesiphon about ucd, it shouldn’t of moved, but at least when they started off they had a plan and built along a line, then, somehow, sometime, they just went mad and started scattering the buildings everywhere.
November 24, 2005 at 4:53 pm #763287
Without wishing to go further off topic:
The main reason for the divergence in UCD between the original plan and the current layout was the termination of Andrzej Wejchert’s contract as coordinating counsultant for the whole plan around 1985. His original plan was for a dense, almost urban development with buildings ‘plugging in’ along the pedestrian mall over time, with each building being no more than a ten minute walk from the others.
In the 1980s, in addition to waving goodbye to Wejchert, UCD bought Roebuck Castle (now the Law faculty) and Richview (Architecture) on the perimeter of the campus, effectively burying any thought of placing those faculties within the main campus. Then benefactors and the college admin combined to place such facilities as the Biotechnology building (and latterly the whole ‘Life Sciences’ area) away from the main centre. This was at least in part driven by private finance and the desire to keep the ‘research’ elements separate with their own entrance. The worst offender, though, must be the O’Reilly Hall- not a bad building, but located on the only large piece of green in the heart of the campus- akin to putting a hotel on St Stephen’s Green. Now we have a campus that is almost as dispersed as the suburban area it calls home, with the areas not occupied by buildings now covered by surface car parking.
I still think much of the campus is a success in planning and layout terms, though- it must be one of the few developments from the 1960s (British New Towns, Toulouse-le-Mirail by Candilis, Josic and Woods [recently in the news because of the French riots], etc.) where the separation of man and motor was achieved successfully, mainly because critical mass of pedestrians was pursued and maintained.
There was an interesting booklet published by the Tuairim group in the 1960s that assessed the possibility of the college remaining in the city centre and it makes a very strong case for this. UCD’s move to the suburbs not only robbed the city of an academic axis (as pointed out in the Irish Times letter last week, referred to above), but also paved the way for other institutions such as Alexandra College and Wesley College, to name only two, to move. How different our city would have been with two central universities and substantially more schoolkids, not to mention the residents that might otherwise have stayed.
If that doesn’t make an argument for keeping NCAD in town (to get back on topic 😮 ) I don’t know what would.
November 24, 2005 at 7:14 pm #763288
Well here another way of making the for-the-good-of-NCAD arguement (as opposed to the good of Dublin arguement which must be self-evident), Dublin now has a healthy fee-paying third level sector, there is RCSI, NCI, GCD, DBS, Portobello and the American College for a start, RCSI is obviously a first rate place, some of the others are at a pretty high level too, beyond these there is a huge number of language schools and training colleges, of varying standard, but some are well established and growing educational businesses. Now these places are businesses and have to make decisions based on common sense and not bluster, they need to look like serious places, educaton is all about reputation, and they need to attract students, they need to have the facilities of the city at hand, they need somewhere with good transport links. They almost all cluster as close as they can get to Stephen’s Green and they almost all include old and often reused buildings. Are there any near Belfield?
November 24, 2005 at 10:30 pm #763289
Aside from schools, of which there are quite a few, the only other academic institution I can think of in the area is the Milltown Theology place opposite the top of Belmont Avenue. Hardly the makings of a new academic zone? :rolleyes:
January 22, 2006 at 12:26 am #763290ncad studentParticipant
Hi i checked out this site.. and it seems through this thread of discussion that there is a lot of interest in our situatiojn in NCAD at the moment.. if any of ye are interested there is a discussion that will take place in the
National College of Art and Design on Monday the 30th January at 2.00 p.m.
in the Noel Sheridan Room. This meeting is of huge importance to the
National College of Art and Design, to Thomas Street and the Liberties area.
The discussion will involve many leading officials including councillers,
td’s, development officials, representatives from many different arts
sectors, local organisations, and journalists.
The proposed topic for discussion is as follows;
‘To Discuss the possible alternatives for the expansion of the
National College of Art and Design on the Thomas Street campus or at
other viable locations. How these alternatives would affect the
college and its surrounding envoirment’
Perhaps some of ye, would have something to say.. or if your interested in finding out some more, you should come along.
January 27, 2006 at 2:50 am #763291DevinParticipant
The weirdest thing about the announcement was that it came just after lodgement of a planning application (Ref. 4812/05) for this scheme (below); a great looking entrance building to replace an ugly single-storey brick wall, and refurbishment of the adjoining gorgeous Fire Station building also:
January 31, 2006 at 1:11 pm #763292
was anyone at this last night, i couldn’t go; the times article implied popular support for common sense. maybe the board is being very clever and this is just a shake down, if they aren’t being very clever then they are being really dumb: moving is a stupid idea.
January 31, 2006 at 2:28 pm #763293GregFParticipant
That’s a nice rendering of what was proposed. It would be ludicrous if the NCAD were to move out of the city centre. It could be seen as a kinda snobbish act by the board. An almost middle classing of the location of the NCAD. Thomas Street is a superb street with some fine architectural gems and a substantive history. I love this street, even though it’s kinda rather neglected and run down, however, it has great potential. It’s also a great location for student artists to study; plenty of human subject matter with its ”Dirty Dub, salt of the earth” characters, shop keepers, traders, shoppers, immigrants, flat dwellers, winos, horse and wagoneers and the odd street wise dog, etc… Curse on the NCAD board if they move out. Bloody pompous upstarts!
February 1, 2006 at 5:43 pm #763294ConalParticipant
I am sure the NCAD board have their reasons for wanting to move from their current location but a move to the suburbs will in no way enhance the college.
I am currently studying as an ACCS student in the IADT (an art college in the ‘burbs). Outside of the college itself the area is culturally desolate. A trip to a gallery or museum is a major undertaking. The social life of the day students, in the context of the college at any rate, appears to be rather poor. There is little in the area that would provide stimulus to an aspiring art student. The UCD campus would fair little better. It cannot match the vibrancy and variety of the city centre to stimulate and encourage art students or provide the ready access to the galleries and museums that a staple source of influence for artists and students alike.
February 9, 2006 at 5:47 pm #763295
And now Aosdana has added its voice to the debate at its AGM yesterday, passing two motions unanimously that a) NCAD should stay in Dublin city centre and b) the Crawford School should stay in Cork city centre.
Also, to back up a point made by Conal (and others), as a former Art History student in UCD I recall being jealous of my contemporaries in Trinity and NCAD for their ease of access to galleries etc. If they want to see a painting in the NGI all they have to do is stroll around the corner, whereas UCD students must travel into town. Nonsense.
May 15, 2006 at 3:06 am #763296
According to the Times the NCAD board has rejected this terrible proposal; a good result for the college and for the city.
From the times:
“The board of the National College of Art and Design (NCAD) is understood to have decided not to pursue the plan to relocate from Thomas Street in Dublin to the University College Dublin (UCD) campus in Belfield.
Indications that such a decision was made follow a board meeting last Friday and a statement to that effect is expected shortly. Ever since it emerged late last October that NCAD had been involved in exploratory discussions with UCD about such a move, the proposal has attracted widespread opposition from NCAD students and staff, and from the membership of AosdÃ¡na. . . .”
May 15, 2006 at 11:14 am #763297urbanistoParticipant
And DCC since it highlighted the new developments at NCAD as a flagship project for SoHo. This is good news…a sensible decision.
June 7, 2007 at 11:23 pm #763298SarsfieldParticipant
There seems to be some construction related activity at the NCAD in the last couple of weeks. Both the fire station building (which seems to have been behind hoarding since forever) and the wall beside it. What’s being done?
June 8, 2007 at 1:39 am #763299
The plan was to create a new main entrance through that blank wall (which had a print studio behind it in my time there)
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