National Stadium

I hope not. It kills the atmosphere for other field games (soccer, rugby, etc.) if the closest seats are set back 40m or so from the edge of the pitch; see Murrayfield for example. Such facilities are hardly ever used; when do you ever require 55,000 seats for an atheletics meeting in Ireland anyway? A dedicated althletics facility would surely be far better.

One good thing about Lansdown is the noise/intensity/atmosphere which is possible for rugby matches. This happens because spectators – on the East Terrace, for example – can be within 3m of the players and the fact that terraces allow a higher density of people. Many of the newish stadia such Edinburgh, Stade de France, etc. can be strangely “dead” because of the space between the specators and the pitch and the low density of spectators. In a world of mostly bland stadia (Cardiff is an exception), Lansdowne, while a kip in many regards, is currently unique in having terraces and for its atmosphere.

@DublinLimerick wrote:

Will the National Stadium (wherever it is to be built or redeveloped) include provision for track and field events?
I mention this since most of our international sporting successes (in terms of actual medals) have been in this category.

most of our international success is in boxing… we’ve had a number of world champions, and olympic champions 😉

I’d wish they’d ever get on with developing Lansdowne Road now. The GAA have done their bit. Thicky imbecile Bertie waffling on about his reservations about Lansdowne Road does’nt help. A multi purpose stadium catering for field sports, athletics, etc… could be built in Abbotstown then. But first things first, get on with developing Lansdowne Road!

It is funny how Bertie can blithley cast aside public reservations to motorways in sensitive areas or sprawling housing estates in the middle of nowhere as people holidng back ‘progess’, but would seem to err on the side of the Ballbridge objectors when his real agenda is dumping Landsdowne for Abbotstown.

No athletics track is planned. The track element had originally been part of the plans for Abbotstown. However, it had been dropped as the Bertie Bowl plan was scaled back, even before its final abandonment.
I think Mr Ahern will rue his comments of recent days and they will no doubt form part of any proposed objections to Lansdowne Road.
In light of the GAA’s magnaminous decision, it would have been a brave resident that fought a planning battle against the redevelopment of a National Stadium. They would have faced ridicule in the newspapers for a start. But I think the Taoiseach’s comments will give them a new-found bravado.

@GregF wrote:

I’d wish they’d ever get on with developing Lansdowne Road now. The GAA have done their bit. Thicky imbecile Bertie waffling on about his reservations about Lansdowne Road does’nt help. A multi purpose stadium catering for field sports, athletics, etc… could be built in Abbotstown then. But first things first, get on with developing Lansdowne Road!

Not over yet – the croker residents will object to floodlights – the footie can be played without them and the Rugby would need to kick off at lunchtime to avoid them.

Alas, stadium deesign in ireland has been almost non-existent. Apart from the notable exception of Croke Park, which is my view is the best stadium of its size in Europe, the rest of the stadia in ireland are a bit wobbly to say the least. Landsdowne Rd was good in its day but badly needs a makeover. From what i can gather, the new redeveloped stadium will resemble the Hong Kong stadium. While a nice design, it is not the most practical for Dublin given that the high arc in the stadium roof still exposes most fans to the elements. But in its defence, both Landsdowne and Croker are great in terms of atmosphere. Anyone familiar with the long souless trek to out of town stadiums will understand what i mean. Other GAA grounds in Ireland are pretty bog basic, but at least they developed and still own the grounds. The football fraternity are a joke in that regard. Having spent many a sunday watching Cork City FC do their thing, it still baffles me how first Flower Lodge went, then Bishopstown ‘stadium’ came, and went, and then back to Turner’s Cross again. At least the cross has been redeveloped and now possess more than a muddy ‘terrace’. Check out the following link for photos on each of the club grounds in ireland (and UK).

http://stadiums.football.co.uk/

And this link for great info on design and photos of stadiums in Euroland. Interestingly, Croker is the second biggest stadium in Europe…with 700 seats less than the San Siro!

http://www.planum.net/webcompass/best-march03.htm

I generally agree with you CorcaighBoy but if you think Croker is the best stadium in Europe it is clear that you haven’t experienced the Millennium Studium in Cardiff. A truely magnificent stadium. All seater with flodlights and retractable pitch and roof, right in the heart of the city. A complete stadium in every sense of the word.

Not to take away from the achievement that is the building of Croker (something for the GAA are rightly proud of). But it is U-Shaped, not all seater, has no floodlights. You also get damn soaked in much of the stadium when it rains.

The Millenium stadium really is far superior.

Yep, the Millenium Stadium is awesome; the best I’ve been in.

As for Bertie’s attempt to ressurect Abbotstown, it’s pathetic and petulant. Everywhere else in the world, they’ve realised that building out of town stadia near motorways was a huge mistake. Even in the US, they are rebuilding their baseball stadia in “downtown” areas (see Denver for example). Travelling fans hate out-of-town stadia and show it by travelling in much smaller numbers. Abbotstown would kill Dublin as a destination for rugby matches as well as lessen the positive economic benefits for businesses in the centre of town. We are very fortunate that the Irish economy was in such a poor state until recently. Otherwise we might have built semi-d housing estates or offices over Lansdown Rd and Croke Park and constructed a national stadium along the Naas road in the 80s; at this stage we’d be looking at ways of trying to assemble a site close to the city centre to build a new stadium. Through this happy accident of history, we’ve ended up with two significant sports grounds within a short waking distance of the centre of town.

I prefer U-shaped to fully closed. And Croker is not all seater by design. There can be a nice breeze blowing in Croker on an other wise hot summers day thanks to the opening, and I have never gotten wet there.

i am sure that the Milenium stadium is great though.

“Alas, stadium deesign in ireland has been almost non-existent. Apart from the notable exception of Croke Park, which is my view is the best stadium of its size in Europe”

I suggest you do some travelling.

As regards the soccer crowd being a joke. I think you need to be reminded of how the GAA got so popular, mainly through a sporting aparthide called The Ban. The whole notion that the GAA are a genius organisation and FAI are total morons is something else I do not get.

For starters the GAA does nothing for Ireland on the world stage – it is a regional oddity that the rest of the world has no idea about. The people of Cork may think that Setanta or Christy Ring are great spoting ledgens, but I can assure you that more Europeans are aware of who plays in midfield for Shelboure or Bohemians than have ever heard of hurling, let alone DJ Carey.

This begs the question, why does the government plow staggering sums of money into an organisation which does not and will never serve Ireland on the world stage? Does this funding of a regionalised idiosyncratic oddity such as the GAA rob Ireland of sportsmen and women who could bring international recognition to Ireland on the world stage if there was no GAA?

The FAI, despite having to compete with GAA and Rugby still managed to win two European Championship and a team of League of Ireland players almost won the Youth World Cup in Malaysia in 1998. The FAI overseas one of the largest and most internationally respected youth sporting organisations in Europe which gave us the likes of Damian Duff and Roy Keane. This is why other European soccer federation come here to see what makes the FAI so good. Nobody comes to Ireland to learn how to develop a sport based around parish rivals bashing each other up.

The FAI are not perfect, but they have managed to serve Irish soccer fairly well all things considered. Look how many World Cup we have qualified for in recent years. The GAA just fosters this notion that ones county is more important than being a citizen of a nation called Ireland. Also, the FAI in its history never banned members for life for standing at the side of a river watching a rowing regatta, sorry “other codes”.

Croke Park is way ahead of any soccer stadium in Ireland but all the other GAA stadia are depressing run-down shitholes. Longford Town FCs Flancare Park is better than any of them. And speaking of Longford Town have a read of Eamon Sweeney’s “There is only one Red Army” and the GAA informers who used to stand outside soccer matches in Longford writing down the names of everybody in the towm who was present. That’s the roots of the GAA my Cork friend, the Orange Order of the south.

Yes, Cardiff is hard to beat and rightly it was pointed out as being probably the best stadium in Europe. Top drawer stuff for sure. As for Croker, I still like the terrace although I wish it were covered. Interestingly, there is increased talk in England about bringing back some form of terracing. The adoption of the Taylor Report in England saw terraces taken out and seats put in, but many fans now complain they pay more for a seat where the terraces once stood, and many would prefer to have the option of standing. Terracing simply became synomoyous with crowd violence and thus out it went without the slightest debate.
As for sports in Ireland, I like them all and down in Cork at least, we tend to support any sport regardless. Rugby, soccer, GAA…you name it, and we will go see it. And that is the way it should be. I do have an issue however with being expected to watch a game in the pissing rain on a mudbank, and quite frankly, less and less people bother going unless the facilities are somewhat up to par. While most of the GAA stadiums around the country might lack some finesse, they do the basics pretty well. Some of the football grounds have improved greatly too (Toka, Flancare, Turners X in particular), and rugby as well. I would love to see Thomond Park developed a bit more….the place is unique and given Munster’s following, should be developed accordingly.

For starters the GAA does nothing for Ireland on the world stage – it is a regional oddity that the rest of the world has no idea about. The people of Cork may think that Setanta or Christy Ring are great spoting ledgens, but I can assure you that more Europeans are aware of who plays in midfield for Shelboure or Bohemians than have ever heard of hurling, let alone DJ Carey.

Who gives a shit? many cultures and countries have their own unique sports, including America and Australia, and others. The idea that we should follow the world’s most boring sport – except maybe at International level – is absurd. The chicken league is crap and following English soccer teams is childish nonsense, why not support the English soccer team outright? Why not support a local Brazillian tiddlywinks team.They are equally nothing to you. Rugby – a decent game – is different, as we can follow the provinces.

This begs the question, why does the government plow staggering sums of money into an organisation which does not and will never serve Ireland on the world stage? Does this funding of a regionalised idiosyncratic oddity such as the GAA rob Ireland of sportsmen and women who could bring international recognition to Ireland on the world stage if there was no GAA?

Again, who cares ( and by and large the GAA funds itself at local level, something which the incompetant FAI can’t manage).

Your real problem – and the problem of all sleveens – is that Ireland dares to be different in anything. That drives you nuts, being a atomised consumer of corporate consumerism, one of whose products is the worlds dullest games, whose low scoring insipid “play” you duly consume as expected and as advertised by cable TV; though who wins what pathetic soccer match in England should have no influence on your existance. At least supporting a county makes sense, as does supporting a country, and people who support other regional oddities ( like BaseBall) support their local teams. As do English people who would be soccer supporters if it were a “regional oddity”, and were when it was – back in the 19th century.

The world is full of “regional oddities”. It is what makes it interesting.

http://www.worldstadiums.com/europe/countries/ireland/leinster.shtml

Pleeze will ever make a start on Lansdowne Road!

Apparently building these stadium yolks is quite tricky!
RTE report this morning that:

The Cork County Board has admitted that there is a problem with the new seating facilities at Páirc ui Chaoimh.

The open stand there was recently converted to an all-seater area. However, many fans are now finding they can’t fit into them, with leg-space at a premium.

One supporter, quoted in this morning’s Irish Examiner, claimed; “It’s really uncomfortbale watching the game, and it doesn’t help when the fella’s knees behind you are in you back”

The Cork County Board say they’re looking into the matter, however it is uncertain what, if any, changes can be made at this stage.

County board chairman Jim Forbes told the Irish Examiner: “We have had some complaints, yes, and we are working towards rectifying the problem as soon as possible.”

“The problem was that we were confined in that stand to the space we had, which was tight to begin with; we looked at a variety of options, and this was chosen as the most suitable.”

“We’re as conscious as everyone else of the problems that have cropped up, we’re getting expert advice on the matter, and there will be remedial work carried out there in the short term.”

Long fellahs no longer welcome even in Cork evidently! :rolleyes:

@Cute Panda wrote:

The FAI are not perfect, but they have managed to serve Irish soccer fairly well all things considered. Look how many World Cup we have qualified for in recent years.

The FAI never qualified for a single World Cup – two generations of good Irish soccer players (nurtured in the English football leagues) did.
The FAI have not “served Irish soccer fairly well”.
They have no stadium. Glenmalure Park is a housing estate. Shamrock Rovers are on the verge of bankruptcy. Dalymount Park is a rusting concrete antique. Tolka Park is being sold for housing. Galway United have just hired a fraudster to be their commerical manager. They drove Roy Keane out of the World Cup.
Get a life, Cute Panda.
You know absolutely nothing about the GAA – ask Shay Given, Niall Quinn, Shane Horgan or Brian O’Driscoll did their playing and love for Gaelic football affect their respective careers.

@kefu wrote:

Glenmalure Park is a housing estate. Shamrock Rovers are on the verge of bankruptcy. Dalymount Park is a rusting concrete antique. Tolka Park is being sold for housing. Galway United have just hired a fraudster to be their commerical manager. They drove Roy Keane out of the World Cup.

Glenmalure Park was sold by the family who owned it and not the FAI. Tolka Park is being sold as apartments to build a new stadium in Baldoyle. Flancare Park and Turners X blow every GAA ground with the exception of Croker out of the water. Athlone, Limerick, Finn Harps are all in the process of building new stadiums.

Here is a picture of the Dalymount which it to be completed at an all seater next year with corporate boxes etc.
http://www.stadiumguide.com/dalymount1.jpg

Flancare Park and Turners X do not blow anything out of the water.
And I can say without fear of contradiction that Croke Park, Nowlan Park, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Semple Stadium, Pairc Tailteann, Pairc Ui Conchuir, Limerick Gaelic Grounds, Fitzgerald Stadium, Cusack Park, Pearse Stadium, Hyde Park and St Tiernach’s Park all have better capacity than any Leage of Ireland ground.

Calm down there folks …….it’s getting a bit juvenile!

@GregF wrote:

Pleeze will ever make a start on Lansdowne Road!

From the Indo:
A planning application for the new stadium is expected to be lodged in December.
…..design team includes HOK Sport, which was involved in the Croke Park project and is currently working on the Arsenal and Wembley stadia in London 🙂

Woo Hoo! ….miracles happen

Is it still the Arup design (attached), I wonder?

No Scott Tallon Walker & HOK Sport

So presumably we will not know what the new stadium will look like until December????

Also a pity they are not proposing a retractable roof.

I just hope that it will be quite stylish and a proud addition to the city and country.

@GregF wrote:

I just hope that it will be quite stylish and a proud addition to the city and country.

that would be a first for STW

@DublinLimerick wrote:

If we do not have provision for track and field at Lansdown Road, what hope do we ever have for such a national athletics facility in the future?

Athletics and real sport don’t mix. Unless you’re going to issue free binoculars to the spectators

A minor upgrade of Morton Stadium would suffice for athletics needs in this country. Unless we plan to hold a major event, the interest in other meetings wouldn’t jutify giving up a large part of a new Soccer/Rugby stadium to a track that will rarely be used.
There’s plenty of development potential in Santry Stadium anyway?

@DublinLimerick wrote:

Most National Stadia in Europe and elsewhere integrate ball sports with track and field sports.
It offers increased usage of the facility. How many internationals of rugby//soccer will be staged at
Lansdown Road per year? A separate athletics atadium that can hold National/European/World/Grand Prix events
is just not financially viable. But it can add critical mass to a National Stadium.

This thread is going around in a circle. I refer you to the very first reply you had – by Jimg – which summed up exactly why athletic tracks have no place in a stadium where rugby and soccer are played – regardless of how many times that takes place. The Stade de France is a cracking stadium but absolutely pants for rugby. I spent most of my time watching the game on the big screen. If you must run around in your P.E. kit, this thread has already given plenty of options.

Most of the good will towards athletics in Ireland has died off because of doping and the lack of serious Irish competitors.
It’s a disgrace the way track and field facilities (for example Belfield) have been let go to rack and ruin.
But there just isn’t any good reason to put in place a track at Lansdowne Road.
Neither the FAI or IRFU would agree to it … and the chances of a big Euro/World athletics event getting a full house here is non-existent. Santry is more than adequate for the national championships at the moment.
A lot of the National Stadiums were built with athletics tracks because they were built for the purposes of holding the Olympics, ie Rome, Barca, Berlin.
Stade de France was built that way with a Parisian Olympic bid in mind. A similar situation has arisen in London with Wembley and their Olympic bid. But the extra cost is enormous.
Only Gay Mitchell thinks the Olympics will ever come to Dublin.

Regarding Gay Mitchell and the Olympics. The reason why a number of people got involved was that if you planned in for the possibility of an Olympic bid it would mean that later on when you might actually be tempted the facilities could have been brought to bear. Though an initial investment might be a bit bigger, it is certainly cheaper than having to start form scratch. If we keep building to minimal standards then we will have minimal facilities.

I agree. But a far more pertinent issue regarding the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road is the very limited 50,000 seat capacity. It means there will be continual pressure on the GAA to open up Croke Park in non-exceptional circumstances – that is, the biennial rugby matches against France or England and the less frequent MAJOR soccer internationals. I know it’s an old point, but when the corporate boxes and other long-term seat sales are taken out of the equation, there will be even fewer tickets available to the general public for matches.