"Modern" Protected Structures in Dublin
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It is amazing, people have a “60/70s” building blindness; they work out a building is from those years, or looks like it is, and then assume they don’t like it. I work in TCD and this is often applied to the arts building, to my mind one of the best designed academic buildings I have been in and believe me I have been in a lot. When questioned, most people actually turn out to like everything about the building except the fact that it is one of those buildings they assume they dislike.
That is very true. It is like a lot of people don’t actually look at the building in and of itself, and just assume they have to say they don’t like it because it is from this period, and this period was ‘bad’.
I am a big fan of the Trinity Arts block. I particularly like the four pipes beside the stairs near the coffee shop. One of the only truly communal gathering spaces on the campus as well.
its funny- would seem that a ‘certain’ period of time needs to pass in order for these buildings to become fashionable again- i could be wrong but i believe this period is about 40-50 years in duration- im just thinking about how the classic ‘modern’ of the 1930’s became fashionable in the 70’s…though i wonder if this cycle is speeding up? im looking at 80’s buildings that have a classical pastiche vibe going on with a certain tenderness of the eye! i kid you not!!
@Nina wrote:
its funny- would seem that a ‘certain’ period of time needs to pass in order for these buildings to become fashionable again- i could be wrong but i believe this period is about 40-50 years in duration- im just thinking about how the classic ‘modern’ of the 1930’s became fashionable in the 70’s…though i wonder if this cycle is speeding up? im looking at 80’s buildings that have a classical pastiche vibe going on with a certain tenderness of the eye! i kid you not!!
Ah, nostalgia for the postmodern! Be careful of that, sounds like it could be dangerous 🙂
I was thinking of forming the Fake-Georgian Society, if you want to join? Essentially, my aim would be to stop reproductions that attempt to mimic original Georgians and instead force anything built in or near the Georgian area of the city be in keeping with the reproductions from the 1980s. :p
Joking aside, I remember hearing that it buildings may be in vogue for up to 25 years, and then may go out of fashion for about 25 before being appraised again. However, with the speed in which 1st generation offices are disappearing in Dublin it could happen faster, if it was to happen at all. I always feel that I am alone in my fondness for buildings like House of Ireland and the New Ireland buildings on Nassau Street, to name a few.
Of course it seems there are buildings from this era that are already coming into much wider appreciation, such as Bank of Ireland Baggot St. I think that the Central Bank will be widely appreciated in the city in years to come. I like the way small bits of it can be seen from various areas around the centre of the city.
I was only thinking about this the other day when passing some postmodernism. There’s so very little of it in the city that without question it will eventually crop up for consideration for protection. The three best examples would probably the Tara Street office building, one on Herbert Street (below)…
…and the Dublin Castle conference centre, though the latter perhaps a slightly different kettle of fish given it’s being influenced by its surroundings. Otherwise, there’s very few ‘pure’ examples in the city, and in spite of it not exactly being everyone’s cup of tea, the better postmodernists do hold up very well. The prissiness aside, Tara Street still looks very polished, ‘executive’, and desirable as a corporate HQ, as with the above pc too. And at the end of the day, its desirablility that determines survival of any building – good or bad.
http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2006/000087.html
COULD BANK OF IRELAND’S HEADQUARTERS BE LISTED?
Now that the Bank of Ireland headquarters building on Lower Baggot Street is expected to be sold and leased back, many are wondering what the future holds for the 1970s structure. Emma Cullinan reports
“I do feel a link with it, of course, it’s almost as if it’s one of your children,” says architect Ronald Tallon about the Bank of Ireland headquarters building his practice, Scott Tallon Walker, designed in Baggot Street, Dublin 2, which is expected to go for sale.
While the bank is due to lease back the 1970s building for at least five years, the prospect of new owners does throw up the possibility of changes being made to the structure.
Many are wondering now whether the building, which was completed in 1975, should be listed. But while this would prevent changes being made to the building, a spokesman for Dublin City Council points out that even without such status, any changes would be subject to a rigorous planning process.
One of the criteria for protected status is that a building has to be of significant architectural interest and, so far, most of Dublin’s 8,500 listed buildings are Georgian, followed by Edwardian buildings, yet, with the advancement of architectural quality in Ireland recently, more contemporary buildings will need to be considered.
At the moment anyone can propose that a building be listed (or delisted). If the planning department deems it a suitable candidate, it is then put to the councillors.
If they give it the go-ahead, a report is done on the building. After that, public notices are served (in newspapers and so on) and the property owner is notified. After this, councillors decide whether to proceed. The whole process usually takes around six months.
The problem, says the council spokesman, is that what is deemed to be of architectural interest is subjective.
But, while people may be divided on whether they like the Bank of Ireland building or not, some may consider that it indeed has merit on historical grounds.
This was one of the first modern buildings to be slotted into a Georgian streetscape and was based on the work of architect Mies van der Rohe, in line with world trends at the time.
While anyone can propose a building for listing, Tallon himself is leaving it up to others to decide. It was German tutors at the Architectural Association school in London who helped to get another Scott Tallon Walker building listed: the Goulding Summerhouse in Enniskerry, Wicklow.
Michael Scott’s Busárus is also listed, as is the P J Carroll’s cigarette factory in Dundalk which Scott Tallon Walker is restoring for the Dundalk Institute of Technology. “There’s a sense of relief when one of your buildings is listed,” says Tallon. “It’s great to see a building restored and given a whole new life.”
When the practice designed the Carroll’s factory it was with a view to expanding it. Its modular design was added to three times in the past.
In the case of the Bank of Ireland building, the composition is important to its placing which will make it more difficult to expand. It’s in three parts, set around a central plaza, with two lower buildings on Baggot Street matching the scale of surrounding Georgian buildings while the higher building to the rear is set well away from the street frontage.
“If it is bought by a developer, I presume they may want to maximise the density of the site but it’s pretty dense anyway,” says Tallon. “It’s a nine-storey building in the centre of the city.
“They might get an extra floor on Baggot Street – it’s quite capable of taking it alright. I suppose they might want to take out the plaza and turn it into an atrium or something but it would be a shame because it’s one of the nice spaces that the public has access to.”
The bank building didn’t involve the demolition of Georgian houses, but instead replaced the Lincoln and Nowlan car assembly plant and showroom. While the dark building looks somewhat imposing, as the bank may well have wanted, the materials are of high quality and show a remarkable craftsmanship that has been lost to Ireland.
“We chose a curtain wall in bronze because it’s a beautiful material that lasts forever and needs no maintenance,” says Tallon.
It was also the material Mies van der Rohe used on his Seagram Building in New York. “What is amazing is that the whole curtain wall was made in Ireland by Smith and Pearson, an Irish firm with Irish craftsmen.
“That couldn’t happen today. Despite all our technology and all our advances no-one could do that in Ireland now.”
© The Irish Times@Devin wrote:
Just reading the full text of this article, I’m starting to feel the building had better be listed sooner rather than later! What exactly does Ronald Tallon mean by a new owner “might get an extra floor on Baggot Street – it’s quite capable of taking it alrightâ€? Would this not upset the composition? And how might an extra floor be executed – as a facisimile design? Would you still be able to get matching materials for a seamless look? Or maybe he’s thinking of a heritage mansard roof? Or a glass-canopied hkr-special perhaps??
And an atrium over the plaza? That would certainly respect the design!! Maybe a glass cage should be built over the whole thing.
17.vi.08
Re the above discussion from a few months ago- I just heard the other day that an application is due to be submitted (if it hasn’t already been) for three extra floors on the BoI.
@ctesiphon wrote:
17.vi.08
Re the above discussion from a few months ago- I just heard the other day that an application is due to be submitted (if it hasn’t already been) for three extra floors on the BoI.
Yep, I think HKR are doing it. Not sure of the details but I think they’re planning on making a glazed link between the three buildings on the site and adding floors to parts of the structure.
Don’t like the sound of that at all. Hopefully it’ll be rejected.
Interesting thread; I remember an incident in the 1980s when I tried to convince the conservation section in Glasgow CC that the ‘Angel Building’ on a prominent corner location should attract their attention. They looked at me as though I was daft; it wasn’t ‘on the list’, so they weren’t aware of it or much interested. It’s not just bourgeois judges, it’s bourgeois architects and planners. And you’re right hutton to point out that historic interest and townscape value must count as well.
Below is a pic of the building; I think it’s now listed. For some reason, only half the pic has posted, but you get the idea.@ctesiphon wrote:
17.vi.08
Re the above discussion from a few months ago- I just heard the other day that an application is due to be submitted (if it hasn’t already been) for three extra floors on the BoI.
Yep, there as some good detail on it on the front of The Sunday Times business section last week (bottom right hand corner)
That Architectural Review feature on Dublin from 1974, that I’ve dredged up a few times before, had a piece on the Bank of Ireland headquarters in Baggot Street. Their view on the scheme was that the main set-back block, together the lower perdendicular right-hand block, succeeded as a piece of ‘Modern’ intervention in the otherwise Georgian streetscape, but that the subsequent demolition of a terrace of good Georgian houses on the left to make way for the third block (the local brance building) spoiled the scheme.
The photographs would tend to support that view, although it may not take fully into account that the plazas were afterwards fitted out with ‘Art’, in primary colours!
I’m dismayed by this news – and I really think we should comment on the application when it is made. Anyone interested in lending their names to it?
No record of the lodgement with DCC yet, unless the site is playing up for me (not unusual). Anyone know if it has a Reg. Ref. yet?
Not sure I can put my name to it, but I’ll gladly help if required.
Surely journals of the time, such as the AR quoted above, would have reference to ‘design integrity’, ‘compositional rigour’ etc. – something that can be quoted back to counter the ‘…it’s quite capable of taking [an extra floor]’ argument.
I am the opposite of ctesiphon; happy to lend my name but incapable of providing expertise.
A planning application to extend the Bank of Ireland on Baggot Street, has been lodged. 15,000 sq m, several additional floors and various bits added.
3255/08@goneill wrote:
A planning application to extend the Bank of Ireland on Baggot Street, has been lodged. 15,000 sq m, several additional floors and various bits added.
3255/08This was posted in another thread this morning. At least now we have the Ref. No.
GrahamH: thanks for posting the pic of Herbert St – it was a welcome relief from a lot of the blandness elsewhere. I agree you can’t condemn pmism out of hand; it has its moments, like every other -ism. What I like about Herbert St is its sheer street presence, its symmetry and harmony and the eccentric little ‘classical’ details on the facade. A street full of this would be bad, as a one-off it’s what a ‘civic’ building should be. There is also the office block on (I think) Essex Street West (?) clad in Scottish sandstone – does that count as pm?
I’ve always thought that a recladding in a pm style would do Agriculture House no harm (that and lopping-off a couple of stories to stop it muscling-in over Govt Buildings).Re Herbert Street, I agree. Christine Casey’s Guide notes that it “is an astonishing pseudo-Art Deco office building of c. 1999 by James O’Connor of Arthur Gibney & Partners, vivid white, giant pilasters, bronze-coloured window aprons and incised linear ornament.”
O’Connor has of course since gone on to do other worthwhile schemes, not least of which are the conservation projects on Joyce’s Dead House on the quays, and also St George’s with its beacon-like restored spire at Hardwicke Place 🙂
You may well be right about James O’Connor of Arthur Gibney and Partners. Jimmy died three or four years ago. However a different James A O’Connor does a lot of conservation work (eg. the Academy, Pearse Street), and I wonder did he work on the two later projects you refer to.
He is not, of course, to be confused with James Mary O’Connor, AIA. Design, Architect, Moore Ruble Yudell,, a DIT grduate whose firm has been appointed to design the “looney uni”!
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