Metro
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On another point, shouldn’t it be line 2 of the DART for consistency and all further lines should Be Dart Line 3 etc….
DART is unique to Dublin, Metro is a bit alien.
I think linking the Metro to a mainline rail station is sensible, but if it adds significantly onto the cost, as it appears to do, then they are as well leaving it for now, as being able to get to O’Connell St quickly and switch to Luas for O’Connolly and Heuston satisfies the largest number of options in one go.
The problem is if you terminate the Metro at a city centre rail station, you have to have Heuston and Connolly already linked by a mainline line, and Connolly will have to become the terminus for all trains to the city, which means a massive expansion of Connolly.
The alternative is Liffey junction, but you have the same problem, with Liffey Junction acting as the terminus.
However if the Metro simply terminates in O’Connell/D’Olier St, it facilitates rapid transfer to Luas for Heuston/Connolly and all mainline rail destinations, or Tara St for Dart connections. It also facilitates most bus services etc.
The way Dublin is designed there is a natural gravitation towards the city centre, and the cost of shifting that centre of gravity is very high. The benefit of the first metro link terminating in O’Connell St is that satisifies the most number of options at least cost, and with no disruption to the existing system.
And remember, this only the first link! Later links can work towards shifting the centre of gravity esp. for mainline rail passengers, who technically shouldn’t have to come near the city at all.
If the plan is to terminate at D’Olier Street, the where will the trains go then? Will they simply change cabs and return back up the line?
If this is the case why does it necessitate a massive expansion at Connolly? DART is catered for (albeit poorly in terms of platform to street access), mainline is catered for (and how much mainline traffic uses Connolly? will this decrease when the M1 finally opens in all its glory). All thats needed thenn is the freeing up of underground space for platforms and sidings.
Well the trains just go back up the line, as in Madrid. If you have the Luas going to Connolly I don’t see why the first metro link has to go there too, especially if it is going to cost the guts of 3-400 million to make that adjustment…
My point about a massive expansion of Connolly is that the argument for bringing the metro to connolly is to hook it into the mainline rail system. But this is only of serious benefit if Connolly is the terminus for most mainline rail. In reality that function is split between heuston and connolly. So you can pointlessly bring people to connolly on the metro, where they have to get the luas to heuston anyway; make connolly the mainline rail hub by opening an interconnector, which necessitates a huge expansion of Connolly (if you are going to bring all the southern trains in); or just leave connolly alone, accessible on a short five minute trip via Luas.
Although one changeover on the transport system is ideal, two changeovers on the transport system are not bad, if they are logical ones; and bringing the Metro to O’Connoll St, where you can easily reach Connolly or Heuston via Luas, sounds fine to me…
I just cannot understand the problem here.
You would get the new Metro to O’Connell Street, hop on the Luas to Heuston or Connolly Station, then jump on the inter city train to whatever your destination is. I don’t understand what the big deal is – this is the same in most cities.
Say you arrive in Paris Airport and want to go to Versailles or something like that. You would have to get train into Gare Du Nord, get Metro to Montparnasse, and get another train to Versailles. Same in London. Same in New York, except there’s no train link even there. Same everywhere.
The Metro’s primary purpose would be to serve Dublin city centre. After all, we do have airports in Cork, Galway, Limerick, Kerry, Belfast, Sligo, Waterford and Donegal, which the State already subsidises. Why the massive concern with linking the Metro into the intercity rail network?
Surely a direct link to the Docklands, ie, Connolly, is necessary.
This is the city’s saviour in terms of development land and concentrating population. The future of the city and indeed surrounding counties is being placed in this area to counteract sprawl and soaring land values.
The investment and planning that is being injected into this place is surely a measure of its importance and hence its need for a Connolly stopoff.
Its likely that we’ll be kicking ourselves in 10 years if we don’t act now.The beauty of a Metro system is that it could be extended when general economic conditions have improved.
My attitude would be to build it to O’C Street and then when we have money again, interlink Luas, Metro, and National Rail as a matter of priority.
With a Luas extension to the Point also planned, it would not be too much to ask a resident of the Docklands to get the Metro to O’Connell Street and then switch to the Luas for the final short leg of their journey.I am not entirely sure we should use the arguement of ‘when time get better we can…’ Historically, this has led to projects being developed at less than their potential.
A link to the existing rail network would not be to benefit mainline services as these are all northbound and would have joined the Metro earlier (at Swords for example). It is to fit in with the existing DART connection to south Dublin therefore creating a north-south easy airport link.
New plans just announced today also adds to the issue. The Government are planning to ask developers to build a new National Conference Centre and lease it back to the State. Okay so it may not happen…. but then again it may! And if the Docklands is chosen as is most likely (or eventhe RDS) then a direct Metro link into Connolly would be vital to its success. Think of all the hotels which will spring up in this area should a conference centre get the go-ahead.
A direct link to the docklands isn’t necessary – there isn’t a direct link from Heathrow to Canary wharf but commerce still survives. Use the O’Connell street stop to connect with Luas as mentioned by kefu and redeoin to go east or west of O’Connell Street.
Jesus you’d sware people in this country wanted a direct line from their living room to the departure lounge!
Or while I’m on the Barcelona theme elsewhere (guess where I have recently been!) Barcelona has a fantastic metro system but as yet no link to the airport! You have to get a train every 30 mins to Sants (their version of Connolly) and then switch to the Metro for the city centre etc, or else take a bus to the city centre.
Though a direct link from living room would be nice ; )
You’re right there isn’t a direct link from Heathrow to Canary Wharf ot more importantly the City of London (as London’s main business area). So surprise, surprise, the Mayor’s office is supporting the building of CrossRail, an underground rail project to connect Paddington (where the Heathrow Express currently terminates) with Liverpool St in the heart of the City. In addition the Mayor’s office (or rather Transport for London) is proposing a large expansion to the London City Airport, in the Docklands, together with lightrail connection to Canary Wharf and the City (via Bank).
But I rest my case on this one. Its seems to be the general view to terminate at D’Olier St (whats on D’Olier St??). I think that is myopic and going against the trend for the city to develop to the east.
I would also be concerned about any plans to reduce the stations along the Metro before it reaches the city, which I believe is being mooted.
So am I right in saying that everybody in the country has a problem in going up an escalator and getting a connecting luas to Connolly/ Heuston?
Good point about the rationale behind bringing the Metro to D’Olier St. They must see it as a useful gateway to College Green and Grafton St, as well as the underground link to Tara.
However I am beginning to hope that the southern and western phases of the Metro are being designated to terminate at D’Olier St in the long term, with D’Olier St forming the Metro hub of the City.
I know there are some big fans of linking into Connolly, but to me it makes sense to form a separate hub for the metro, as this will in time carry a high number of low-luggage passengers on daily journeys, (and long distance passengers will only form a proportion) and D’Olier St is a good place for a hub, when you consider it’s location just south of O’Connell St, and North of Grafton St/College Green.
Rather than link directly into the existing system, if D’Olier St was the meeting point of the North, South and West lines, with quick access to Tara and the proposed Luas extension to Guild St; and the O’Connell stop served a similar but more modest function for Connolly and Heuston access en route from the airport, you would have a very well balanced integrated system, without overloading any existing service area.
In my experience rail and metro stations combined can be very messy. A purpose built hub at D’Olier St could have four simple spokes running off it – one to Bray, one to Lucan, one to Swords, and the Travelator to Tara.
It is probably just wishful thinking on my part, but my guess is that in the medium term D’Olier St is being proposed as more than just a terminus for the North Line, because on a City map it is a very suitable location for developing that type of transport system, as it is close to everywhere, but big enough and private enough to handle tens of thousands passing through, without the constriction and disruption you would have if you had a hub at (a) a major shopping district (b) a constricted location such as Grafton St or Connolly (c) a ‘scenic’ spot such as Stephen’s Green.
We could have a centrepiece station underground at D’Olier St that is a modern classic. I am all on for standardised simple stations, but I think the hub station should get extra attention as a one off and be a work of brilliance!
I feel like saying to the RPA to throw me a freaking bone here, as they never explain anything, but that is my two cent swiftly thought out and undoubtedly flawed ‘vision’…!
METRO…METRO..METRO… BIG DEAL!
Am I the only person who thinks the Metro to the airport is a joke (concieved by the incompetent and now discredited DTO in their silly ‘Platform for Change’ doc), unneeded and is being fought over by various self-proclaimed “transport experts” who don’t know what they are doing?
What is this obsession with underground? The bus services into Dublin city centre works fine – why then a Metro that dumps people and their bags in the midle of O’Connell Street? It all seems nuts to me and has more to do with contractors under bidding each other in order to get the construction and then the public is left with a half-arsed system that unintegrated.
I would much rather Dublin follow reality and the rest of the world and build a heavy rail spur off the Maynooth line near Clonsilla, run it up the old Navan branch (which should be reopened regardless) and then into the Airport from the west. Once the trains are at high speed they shoot across north county Dublin to the airport in minutes. Terminate ithem in the City Centre at Spencer Dock, and more importantly this will connect Dublin Airport to the entire rail system and not unload people in O’Connell Street to get stranded and without transport again – this how the DB ICE network in Germany serves the Airports there and Oslo and Manchester have heavy rail connections that serve more than just the nearest city, but entire sections of the country. Not everybody is going into town – certainly not O’Connell Street.
The whole Metro thing is just some passing political fetish for underground trains and we really don’t need it. We need a heavy rail service to Dublin Airport with national connections and direct services. The Metro was born in the minds of the same eejits who demolished the ramp at Connolly and the LUAS across the M50, they do not know what they are doing – scrap the Metro and built the heavy rail link to the Airport.
There, I said it! *ducks*
isn’t the metro supposed to do more than link us to the airport brian, its is supposed to allow people to get in from ballymun, it is supposed to link dcu to town and it is supposed to be the first part of a metro system. a mainline link to the airport would also be good and would get people from the airport into town faster, but wouldn’t remove the need for a metro system. of course, an alternative would be a heavy rail link to the airport and a luas line linking ballymun, north fringe, dcu etc, but that might not be much cheaper, it would have a lower capacity and it would take up road space.
Does anyone remember when the buses went on strike, the city was never so free. I reckon go underground and get rid of some bus routes.
I’m not sure I agree with that arguement….. get rid of the buses and the cars will take their place.
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